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Copying new world is going to ruin this game

TorkhamTorkham Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
One of the major problems I felt in new world was how they handled inventory, because it was limited you were forced to store stuff across the zones and now AoC is looking to do the same thing but with an added feature, caravans. So if you need to move items across areas you have to open yourself up to griefing...don't care about insurance, just means you lose time and money. This is going to be a major pain for causal players and if they are going with this, what else are they going to do to push away casual gamers.
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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Yes, the game will be niche and more hardcore than your currently trendy casual single player mmos. Intrepid know this and designed it in this way because they wanted to make a game like this.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    One of the major problems I felt in new world was how they handled inventory, because it was limited you were forced to store stuff across the zones and now AoC is looking to do the same thing but with an added feature, caravans. So if you need to move items across areas you have to open yourself up to griefing...don't care about insurance, just means you lose time and money. This is going to be a major pain for causal players and if they are going with this, what else are they going to do to push away casual gamers.

    Ashes isnt casual friendly at heart. Its casual friendly at surface level. Thats just a trait of the game they are making.
  • TorkhamTorkham Member, Alpha Two
    If I knew they were going to copy new world, I wouldnt have pre ordered the game. ugh, stupid me
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    If I knew they were going to copy new world, I wouldnt have pre ordered the game. ugh, stupid me

    If its been within 90 days you may be intitled to a refund.

    Also, i wouldnt phrase it as "copying new world" as ashes systems are deeper and more thought out... and have probably been in development since before new world.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    If I knew they were going to copy new world, I wouldnt have pre ordered the game. ugh, stupid me
    AoC's design has been the same before NW was even announced afaik. It's on you to make well-researched and weighed purchases.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lol, nikr and i am posting the same things at the same times.

    Dont mean to be "ganging up" on you
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    This is going to sound like it has nothing to do at first, but this is just like what happens with pro Wrestling nowadays.

    People insist a wrestling promotion must appeal to the casual viewer or die for not doing so.

    Meanwhile, that wrestling promotion which has its own identity and style, garners critical acclaim from the hardcore crowd and grows greatly year-over-year.

    I feel like this is the same with Ashes of Creation. The game mustn't appeal to the casual crowd, because the casual crowd will not be the core audience or source of revenue.

    Even if we want to apply the Pareto law, where 20% of your audience provides you with 80% of your revenue, that means that Intrepid need only make a game where that 20% of their audience is their hardcore audience, and that they are happy with the product.

    Modifying the game to appeal to the casual 80% of all MMO players, will just damage trust -- and ultimately drive away -- the import 20% of hardcores.
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  • TorkhamTorkham Member, Alpha Two
    PenguinPaladin wrote: »
    Lol, nikr and i am posting the same things at the same times.

    Dont mean to be "ganging up" on you

    All good :)
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    If I knew they were going to copy new world, I wouldnt have pre ordered the game. ugh, stupid me

    The local banking and caravan system has been there from the start and was known about before the kickstarter.

    New world also isn't the only game that has a local bank systems.
  • TorkhamTorkham Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Torkham wrote: »
    If I knew they were going to copy new world, I wouldnt have pre ordered the game. ugh, stupid me
    AoC's design has been the same before NW was even announced afaik. It's on you to make well-researched and weighed purchases.

    Thats why I stated stupid me, I've been waiting for a decent mmo since SWG and got caught up in the hype. New world was such a huge disappointment and hate to see promising games use the same features. Regardless of who developed it first, it didn't work in new world, and I doubt it will work in AoC
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    New World storage was mainly a problem for crafters since you could participate in all professions and it required tons of mats for progression. AoC limits your professions so it remains to be seen how much storage is required for crafting vs just squirreling stuff away. The wiki mentions some items may have a stack limit up 1,000 (or 999) which would most likely be related to raw materials or intermediates. Caravans need a real purpose in the game otherwise nobody would bother with them so it adds some inconvenience but may add a lot of short-term action throughout the game day.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    I hate when people think games are copying new world, when new world just copied other games x.x
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • TorkhamTorkham Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I hate when people think games are coping new world, when new world just copied other games x.x

    Regardless of who developed it first, it's a terrible feature and new world proved it.
  • WarthWarth Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I hate when people think games are coping new world, when new world just copied other games x.x

    Copied it badly*
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I hate when people think games are coping new world, when new world just copied other games x.x

    Regardless of who developed it first, it's a terrible feature and new world proved it.

    I mean... it all revolves around your game play loop. Which new world didnt manage to make decent...

    In ashes you live around your node... are a citizen of your node... with no fast travel, and the nodes being the source of most of the local content, localized banking isnt a huge issue around the gameplay loop.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    Thats why I stated stupid me, I've been waiting for a decent mmo since SWG and got caught up in the hype. New world was such a huge disappointment and hate to see promising games use the same features. Regardless of who developed it first, it didn't work in new world, and I doubt it will work in AoC
    From what I've seen of NW's gearing, crafting and storage system, the main problem seemed to be the overabundance of pretty much any and all resources in the game. You had a ton of mats to collect because you could collect everything around you. You had different gear drops (iirc), so your inventory would get filled up with random shit. And if you wanted to craft something, you needed a ton of resources on you or in your location. The map was also relatively small and made you move around it, instead of giving you an anchor in one place.

    And from what Intrepid have said and designed so far, pretty much none of those seem to be a problem here. You won't be able to just gather everything, unless you specced into being a particular gatherer. You won't have shitton of dropped gear on you because gear is valued way higher in Ashes. You'll be anchored to your freehold/node, so even when you need a lot of stuff for crafting - you'll just be using the node's bank. And the only way for you to get your crafting resources is either other people bringing them to you or you going out to other nodes and buying them. And in order to add even more value to gear, transfer of resources is a risky thing, so you gotta ask other people to defend your stuff, which will also increase social ties between people.

    In other words, AoC just seems to be designed better than NW (I know, shocker). It's ok if you dislike this kind of design, but quite a lot of people are excited for the game exactly because it has this design.
  • TorkhamTorkham Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Torkham wrote: »
    Thats why I stated stupid me, I've been waiting for a decent mmo since SWG and got caught up in the hype. New world was such a huge disappointment and hate to see promising games use the same features. Regardless of who developed it first, it didn't work in new world, and I doubt it will work in AoC
    From what I've seen of NW's gearing, crafting and storage system, the main problem seemed to be the overabundance of pretty much any and all resources in the game. You had a ton of mats to collect because you could collect everything around you. You had different gear drops (iirc), so your inventory would get filled up with random shit. And if you wanted to craft something, you needed a ton of resources on you or in your location. The map was also relatively small and made you move around it, instead of giving you an anchor in one place.

    And from what Intrepid have said and designed so far, pretty much none of those seem to be a problem here. You won't be able to just gather everything, unless you specced into being a particular gatherer. You won't have shitton of dropped gear on you because gear is valued way higher in Ashes. You'll be anchored to your freehold/node, so even when you need a lot of stuff for crafting - you'll just be using the node's bank. And the only way for you to get your crafting resources is either other people bringing them to you or you going out to other nodes and buying them. And in order to add even more value to gear, transfer of resources is a risky thing, so you gotta ask other people to defend your stuff, which will also increase social ties between people.

    In other words, AoC just seems to be designed better than NW (I know, shocker). It's ok if you dislike this kind of design, but quite a lot of people are excited for the game exactly because it has this design.

    That sounds more reasonable, and you nailed it with new worlds inventory and thats exactly what I was afraid of. Your explanation eased my fear lol

  • WarthWarth Member
    New World was a failure from a design stand-point. That is kinda what happens when you do a full 180 on your core game design one year prior to release.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Which dev stated they're copying New World??
    Let's see what the Ashes storage is actually like first. (I'm not aware of NW having mules.)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Another similarity is both games have swords and daggers.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Another similarity is both games have swords and daggers.

    Well crap! I'm out...
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  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
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  • ElderElder Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Talents wrote: »
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    I'm stealing this. :D
    Which is the greater folly, summoning the demon or expecting gratitude from it?
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    What's up with these negative threads lately? I feel like i see threads with assumptions and lies a lot lately... :s The game is not even out yet, so you cannot make the assumption it's like X other game...

    What this game IS, is a game that have a lot of transparency with their development! I have never played a game where a studio feel like a good friend who actually cares.
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  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »
    What's up with these negative threads lately? I feel like i see threads with assumptions and lies a lot lately... :s The game is not even out yet, so you cannot make the assumption it's like X other game...

    What this game IS, is a game that have a lot of transparency with their development! I have never played a game where a studio feel like a good friend who actually cares.

    If I had to bet, I'd say a lot of people do not want a good MMORPG to come out. Maybe some of these people have a lot to lose (or gain) if Ashes had (more) public image issues. In any case, we're also to blame because we keep feeding these shitposts, when we should simply ignore them.
    Torkham wrote: »
    One of the major problems I felt in new world was how they handled inventory, because it was limited you were forced to store stuff across the zones and now AoC is looking to do the same thing but with an added feature, caravans. So if you need to move items across areas you have to open yourself up to griefing...don't care about insurance, just means you lose time and money. This is going to be a major pain for causal players and if they are going with this, what else are they going to do to push away casual gamers.
    1. Ashes didn't copy New World because this feature was already in Ashes' initial game design/Kickstarter years before New World switched from a survival game to a botched MMORPG failure (not economically, obviously).
    2. Not having a global bank/storage is a feature, not a hindrance. If it ends up not working and being a pain, maybe Intrepid can tweak it as time goes by, but it's not changing any time before release.
    3. New World has a P2W mechanic to move items from different cities without needing to physically transport it, Ashes won't.
    4. You don't need a caravan to move items, only if the amount is bigger than what you can carry. Even then you can try to move it on your mount, without a Caravan. If you're carrying processed goods and not in a Caravan, you won't lose anything if you get killed.
    5. Caravans and the risks that come with it isn't griefing, it's PvP. If you don't like to take risks, don't take part in it. Maybe become a Caravan thief. If you don't like PvP... well I'm afraid I have some bad news for you.
    6. You don't know what casual gamers like or dislike. Your definition of casual gamer is probably different than mine. If you're pushed away by this, please say you feel that way, don't involve other people in your own problems.
    7. I'm a casual gamer, as in I enjoy games but can only play 10~20 hours a week, and I do not want Ashes to cater to entitled pseudo-gamers.

    Cheers!
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »
    What's up with these negative threads lately? I feel like i see threads with assumptions and lies a lot lately... :s

    These tend to show up after the monthly updates.

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  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Torkham wrote: »
    One of the major problems I felt in new world was how they handled inventory, because it was limited you were forced to store stuff across the zones and now AoC is looking to do the same thing but with an added feature, caravans. So if you need to move items across areas you have to open yourself up to griefing...don't care about insurance, just means you lose time and money. This is going to be a major pain for causal players and if they are going with this, what else are they going to do to push away casual gamers.

    The separation of storage by city is being done specifically to create different economies in different areas of the world. With different economies in different areas, players have the opportunity to research prices in different regions and make a lot of profit moving items common to one area into another that does not have the item.

    If you have a shared storage across the world, then you can leave everything in storage, travel, and then pull everything out to sell. That would completely wreck the idea of varying economies and destroys the use of the caravan system as well as the caravan PVP system.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    Torkham wrote: »
    One of the major problems I felt in new world was how they handled inventory, because it was limited you were forced to store stuff across the zones and now AoC is looking to do the same thing but with an added feature, caravans. So if you need to move items across areas you have to open yourself up to griefing...don't care about insurance, just means you lose time and money. This is going to be a major pain for causal players and if they are going with this, what else are they going to do to push away casual gamers.

    tbh the banking system wasnt the issue with new world :P shit combat, shit end game, shit pvp, shit pve that was the main issues.


  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Shhh they want to just use new world to push their goals, its a secret.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • MybroViajeroMybroViajero Member, Alpha Two
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