Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Options

Underwater content

IzilIzil Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited August 2022 in General Discussion
Is a waste of time and a scope creep. 95% or more of playerbase will be on the surface at all times anyway. Make it a goal for the future just focus on land content imo or it could potentially delay game for way longer
Izil.png
«1

Comments

  • Options
    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited August 2022
    I agree. Even if there is profit or good xp underwater I think that most people would stick to established methods. Not most, the vast majority.

    Underwater content falls in with the rp element rather than real exploration and gain.
  • Options
    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'd be fine with it being delayed until after release, but Naval content both above and below is part of why I signed up.
    Riding in Solo Bad Guy's side car

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
  • Options
    Yep. Not everything has to be there at launch.
  • Options
    I think making the underwater environments look interesting would be a minimum, without having to add more involved content.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • Options
    HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    What? Heck no. Underwater temples and caverns, wrecks and reefs are a must.

    Sure some people might ignore the underwater content but they could be missing out on a huge chunk just from not sticking their head into the ocean or a lake.

    There could be secrets or treasures only the water explorers find and a unique take on content that many may not have experienced in other games that you're all just willing to cast off because "nah, I won't do it. So it's useless fuck it."
    lsb9nxihx5vc.png
  • Options
    Disagree with this completely.

    There is so much scope when it comes to populating the oceans. The naval aspect of the game is such a big part of the world IMO.
  • Options
    I personally would not want the game to land with a thud because it appears to be just another clone of a clone of a cloned MMO. Quality and Emersion over Expediency.

    I would hope that everyone on this forum is excited and anxious to take part in this creation, but we need to trust the Devs on this one.
    ~Marten
    marten.png
    ​“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
  • Options
    HathamHatham Member
    edited August 2022
    why wouldn't they have underwater content? - the game is based of off one with that content - so expecting them to not add it is madness. Its also part of their inital scope so it wouldn't really change much.
  • Options
    I mean the game does have a whole lot of water, so it would compliment the world building to not only have the surface layer of water as a playable part of the game, but the underwater spaces as well.

    Pretty sure Steven has noted how underwater gameplay is usually a chore in other games and he wants to go against this grain, which to me tells me sees it somewhat as part of the design.

    They also intend to have underwater dungeons so again I see it as part of the plan.

    I don't think you can call it Scope creep if it is already something they have invested development time on account of it intending to be part of the core game.

    Intending, being the key part really. I suspect there will be less underwater content than land (obviously) and I mean we don't really want the ocean just being this empty void do we? I'd like to know that there is something out there. It'll be emptier in terms of the actual land-based nodes, but it should have some personality about it.
  • Options
    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I think the devs should have the scope to create cool sea monsters and cool sea pve entities. The devs are good at creating creatures. UE5 makes creation rather streamlined and faster. The underwater zones could be constructed rapidly, the only delay would be the population of said zones but then the populations aren't completed for the land zones either yet.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Options
    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    That ship has sunk already:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH5Ux9qmnE0&t=398s
    mark 7:10
  • Options
    Izil wrote: »
    Is a waste of time and a scope creep. 95% or more of playerbase will be on land at all times anyway. Make it a goal for the future just focus on land content imo or it could potentially delay game for way longer

    How can you possibly state that without knowing what's going to be there? If there's something down there that's worth getting, then there will be people going down there to get it.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Options
    Considering there are coastal nodes, there will be underwater dungeons and raids and other exploration content for sure.

    Otherwise you're just telling anyone who's settling a coastal node that they get half the content that other nodes do, because you think it's a waste of time to develop those aquatic pieces of content.

    And that's just shelfish..... I'll see myself out.
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • Options
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Considering there are coastal nodes, there will be underwater dungeons and raids and other exploration content for sure.

    Otherwise you're just telling anyone who's settling a coastal node that they get half the content that other nodes do, because you think it's a waste of time to develop those aquatic pieces of content.

    And that's just shelfish..... I'll see myself out.

    its funny because there loads more to the ocean content like: vehicles, mounts, fishing and other tons of activities that revolve around this content, not just dungeons and raids but also maybe monster coin events and world bosses(fish? krakken) etc
  • Options
    Hatham wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Considering there are coastal nodes, there will be underwater dungeons and raids and other exploration content for sure.

    Otherwise you're just telling anyone who's settling a coastal node that they get half the content that other nodes do, because you think it's a waste of time to develop those aquatic pieces of content.

    And that's just shelfish..... I'll see myself out.

    its funny because there loads more to the ocean content like: vehicles, mounts, fishing and other tons of activities that revolve around this content, not just dungeons and raids but also maybe monster coin events and world bosses(fish? krakken) etc

    Agreed, I was focusing on the underwater dungeons and raids, because Steven already teased some such thing in the past. And we've also already had a slew of people declaring themselves to be a pirate guild (which btw have been missing from the forums for ages after everyone got tired of their "we'll PK everyone MUAHAHA" shtick).

    The ocean will be incredibly important to caravans as well.

    So yeah, basically kneecapping a full array of nodes because I or some other player may prefer to play in the mountains, seems counterproductive to having a good game.
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • Options
    You'll need a tank with air augments for that content.
    I'll also see myself out.

    I don't see why it's ok to neglect this biome in particular.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Options
    edited August 2022
    I somewhat agree here. You can keep actual content out of the water for now. But attention to detail is still just as important as on land. I will still expect underwater creatures both friendly and unfriendly swimming around at launch. I will still expect the same level of detail as on land when it comes to corals, rocks, sand, fishes swimming by and overall underwater environment at launch.

    As far as content such as underwater dungeons/raids maybe even cities or nodes. That can wait.

    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • Options
    HathamHatham Member
    edited August 2022
    I somewhat agree here. You can keep actual content out of the water for now. But attention to detail is still just as important as on land. I will still expect underwater creatures both friendly and unfriendly swimming around at launch. I will still expect the same level of detail as on land when it comes to corals, rocks, sand, fishes swimming by and overall underwater environment at launch.

    As far as content such as underwater dungeons/raids maybe even cities or nodes. That can wait.

    why would they not have accounted for that already? - if they had planed and pathed out a scope for the project they would have accounted for water/underwater and underground content in advance.
  • Options
    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    It's part of th Kickstarter stretch goals.
    The underwater mounts are already farther along than I was expecting for launch.
    WoW has had underwater content for 5+ years, so... it's not like Ashes would be breaking new ground... shouldn't be particularly challenging for them to accomplish. Especially since they've already added a couple more years to the launch schedule.

    But... we'll see.
  • Options
    I'm of the mind that monster drops, treasure map chests, dungeons, and other PvE-related loot tables should primarily drop loot for their respective terrain types. So, players investing in the naval system and sea-based content (exploration, events, dungeons, etc) should be given higher priority for receiving naval blueprints, underwater resources, etc. Vice versa, people who play more on land should be given more blueprints and resources that have to do with land-based tasks and activities. There should be some overlap, but I think having a sizable loot ratio difference between the two areas would feel more rewarding than having it be 50/50 no matter what type of content you do.

    Would be sick to be out sailing, do a deep diving excursion, fight off some sea monsters inhabiting an ancient sunken ship, and get an awesome new figurehead schematic, or a new type of cannon schematic. Finding that sort of stuff in a chest at the base of a volcano or out in a ruined temple in a field somewhere just doesn't make a whole lot of sense imo.

    With this in mind, including the likelihood of several coastal nodes likely being populated by large amounts of sea-content-focused players, delaying the underwater gameplay experience at launch because it's not something you plan to prioritize might have greater impacts on a larger percentage of the population than you might imagine.
  • Options
    I want the finished game I dont care if launch gets delayed for more content and world polish.
  • Options
    DizzDizz Member
    If intrepid can't make underwater combat exactly good as combat on land I can accept less underwater contents.

    Like GW2 and ArcheAge both have on underwater contents and underwater combat but both not good as on land, for exmple in GW2 skills base on ground target just have to be rework again and again to able to find a barely okay way to use it in underwater combat but still some is simple can't use it in underwater combat. But if you make skills specific for underwater will be too much learning price for players to jump into underwater contents, and how GW2 tweak how their ground target skills use differently underwater is already make learning price high enough.

    And to me if underwater combat is not good don't even bother make something like contents like make players fight boss in underwater dungeon building with no water, it's lack rings of the link between surface and dungeon.
    A casual follower from TW.

    ↓Good youtube channel to learn things about creating games.↓
    Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw
  • Options
    edited August 2022
    Hatham wrote: »
    I somewhat agree here. You can keep actual content out of the water for now. But attention to detail is still just as important as on land. I will still expect underwater creatures both friendly and unfriendly swimming around at launch. I will still expect the same level of detail as on land when it comes to corals, rocks, sand, fishes swimming by and overall underwater environment at launch.

    As far as content such as underwater dungeons/raids maybe even cities or nodes. That can wait.

    why would they not have accounted for that already? - if they had planed and pathed out a scope for the project they would have accounted for water/underwater and underground content in advance.

    :) I think OP is saying it's waste to put all dev resources on it now since most players will be on land anyways. Which is somewhat true. But If they already plan on having most underwater content available at launch, that's awesome!
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • Options
    Dizz wrote: »
    If intrepid can't make underwater combat exactly good as combat on land I can accept less underwater contents.

    Like GW2 and ArcheAge both have on underwater contents and underwater combat but both not good as on land, for exmple in GW2 skills base on ground target just have to be rework again and again to able to find a barely okay way to use it in underwater combat but still some is simple can't use it in underwater combat. But if you make skills specific for underwater will be too much learning price for players to jump into underwater contents, and how GW2 tweak how their ground target skills use differently underwater is already make learning price high enough.

    And to me if underwater combat is not good don't even bother make something like contents like make players fight boss in underwater dungeon building with no water, it's lack rings of the link between surface and dungeon.

    I personally dont believe that there should be dedicated, class based underwater combat at all, as underwater (as well as flying) combat is usually scuffed as hell.
    For every PvP related activity, the Ships you dive underwater from will suffice.
    For PvE type things, you might as well just give the player an harpoon with a couple of skills while diving.
  • Options
    Hatham wrote: »
    I somewhat agree here. You can keep actual content out of the water for now. But attention to detail is still just as important as on land. I will still expect underwater creatures both friendly and unfriendly swimming around at launch. I will still expect the same level of detail as on land when it comes to corals, rocks, sand, fishes swimming by and overall underwater environment at launch.

    As far as content such as underwater dungeons/raids maybe even cities or nodes. That can wait.

    why would they not have accounted for that already? - if they had planed and pathed out a scope for the project they would have accounted for water/underwater and underground content in advance.

    :) I think OP is saying it's waste to put all dev resources on it now since most players will be on land anyways. Which is somewhat true. But If they already plan on having most underwater content available at launch, that's awesome!

    Water-based content was a kickstarter stretch-goal. Not delivering that by launch would create all kinds of backlash and bad press.

    I do however agree, that they should primarily work on the "core" gameplay experience to get out Alpha 2. Underwater content can be worked on while A2 is on-going.
  • Options
    BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member
    edited August 2022
    Like others have said, it's not scope creep, it's a stretch goal. I actually don't think Ashes has had much, if any, scope creep in the last few years.

    Personally speaking, I look forward to all the underwater (and above water) content, everything ocean related is very appealing to me. I honestly cannot wait to be able to play Sea of Thieves but in a persistent game.

    However, if they need to postpone some or all of the underwater content to a few months after launch I guess it's fine, although I'm pretty sure they'd rather delay the launch than delaying Kickstarter content.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • Options
    BaSkA13 wrote: »
    Like others have said, it's not scope creep, it's a stretch goal. I actually don't think Ashes has had much, if any, scope creep in the last few years.

    Personally speaking, I look forward to all the underwater (and above water) content, everything ocean related is very appealing to me. I honestly cannot wait to be able to play Sea of Thieves but in a persistent game.

    However, if they need to postpone some or all of the underwater content to a few months after launch I guess it's fine, although I'm pretty sure they'd rather delay the launch than delaying Kickstarter content.

    Just hide it behind Node Stage 6, then yiu have like 3+months post launch to get it in
  • Options
    Hmm… does drowning elves count as underwater content?

    That’s a vanilla ‘must have.’ 😵
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • Options
    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Hmm… does drowning elves count as underwater content?

    That’s a vanilla ‘must have.’ 😵

    Sure. Tank casts javelin below target swimming away to get a breath of air. Yank, drown, dead. Totally do-able... If they have underwater combat.
    Riding in Solo Bad Guy's side car

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
  • Options
    Just think of the Corrupted Merfolk possibilities!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
Sign In or Register to comment.