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Preferences/ideas/suggestions For Naval combat

DolyemDolyem Member
edited September 1 in General Discussion
Alright, let's discuss what people predict and what people would like to see for Naval Combat. Use plenty of other game references and don't be afraid to voice what you like!


Personally I love sea of thieves and see it as the standard for Naval combat. Everything is skill shots and there are different types of ammo that bring all sorts of dynamics to the fights.

Basics that I want include

-skill shot/action based attacks with the few exceptions of some AOE, buff, or debuff abilities.

-sailing mechanics similar to sea of thieves requiring a crew to be on point with sail control, steering, directions, etc.

-several ammunition types for specific effects

-different ship classes with advantages and disadvantages, perhaps even a sort of rock, paper, scissors ship class system so everyone isn't always using the same ship that us a meta

-boarding options for on-ship fighting and some balancing around that.

-making it difficult but not impossible to board enemy ships from the water.

-points of importance on a ship where if someone tampers with them it can have a negative affect or even disable a ship.

Those are just a few. Looking forward to hear everyone's ideas and what sort of games with Naval Content they enjoyed!
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Comments

  • I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Strevi wrote: »
    I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.

    Alive but not animals.... just get in the whale pretty boy. We're going as deep as she goes.
  • Strevi wrote: »
    I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.

    Personally I don't like the idea of submersibles. Leaving a player exposed to dangerous environments while underwater sounds way more appealing as far as content goes. Use the air vent feature that most games utilize to add a mechanic and sense of urgency while exploring or trying to get things done
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • StreviStrevi Member
    edited September 1
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.

    Personally I don't like the idea of submersibles. Leaving a player exposed to dangerous environments while underwater sounds way more appealing as far as content goes. Use the air vent feature that most games utilize to add a mechanic and sense of urgency while exploring or trying to get things done

    I think you are right. In first stage the game should create good mechanic based on water.

    I am glad you are not against the invisibility feature.
    That can be used in more ways: surprise attacks, pretending to be a single harmless ship, breaking blockades, to observe battles and learn or just to explore.
    But I think it can be OP if is not balanced well.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Strevi wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.

    Personally I don't like the idea of submersibles. Leaving a player exposed to dangerous environments while underwater sounds way more appealing as far as content goes. Use the air vent feature that most games utilize to add a mechanic and sense of urgency while exploring or trying to get things done

    I think you are right. In first stage the game should create good mechanic based on water.

    I am glad you are not against the invisibility feature.
    That can be used in more ways: surprise attacks, pretending to be a single harmless ship, breaking blockades, to observe battles and learn or just to explore.
    But I think it can be OP if is not balanced well.

    The stealth would just have to apply to very light/small ships. Nothing that could have a lot of firepower. Even then I'd think it should be at least a shimmer for the keen eye to see
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • DolyemDolyem Member
    edited September 2
    Another idea, since gunpowder isn't a thing, is ships with little to no firepower(potion launchers), built sturdy/tanky, and meant for a focus on ramming and boarding. Such as Triremes. Allowing for a dynamic to not only have ships with an arsenal but also ships with a different tactic in combat. Triremes can keep battlefields moving instead of a few ships just strafing one another over and over.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • I'd also like to see blind spots for ships. Keeping the targeting zone to only shooting out the sides of large ships and not having a bunch of tab targeted attacks shooting directly out the front of the ship as it gives chase to someone escaping. Positioning should be important
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    edited September 2
    I'd want long, medium, and short range directed, ballistic (e.g. arcing) attacks - that are action not target based. So between ship movement and wave action hitting your target effectively will take skill & timing, plus give those ships that don't want to be messed with a chance to escape as best they can.

    I'd also like to see a host of boarding techniques, the ability to destroy masts / sails, destroy hull integrity below the water line, and eliminate a ship's crew in order to steal a ship.

    Edit: OHHH - and knock players off the deck into the waiting jaws of hungry sharks.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • Dolyem wrote: »
    Another idea, since gunpowder isn't a thing, is ships with little to no firepower(potion launchers), built sturdy/tanky, and meant for a focus on ramming and boarding. Such as Triremes. Allowing for a dynamic to not only have ships with an arsenal but also ships with a different tactic in combat. Triremes can keep battlefields moving instead of a few ships just strafing one another over and over.
    Dolyem wrote: »
    I'd also like to see blind spots for ships. Keeping the targeting zone to only shooting out the sides of large ships and not having a bunch of tab targeted attacks shooting directly out the front of the ship as it gives chase to someone escaping. Positioning should be important

    What is the purpose of potions launchers?
    If there are no cannon balls to damage, to make holes and sink the ships... then the potions are meant only against players? Like very long range spells?
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Strevi wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Another idea, since gunpowder isn't a thing, is ships with little to no firepower(potion launchers), built sturdy/tanky, and meant for a focus on ramming and boarding. Such as Triremes. Allowing for a dynamic to not only have ships with an arsenal but also ships with a different tactic in combat. Triremes can keep battlefields moving instead of a few ships just strafing one another over and over.
    Dolyem wrote: »
    I'd also like to see blind spots for ships. Keeping the targeting zone to only shooting out the sides of large ships and not having a bunch of tab targeted attacks shooting directly out the front of the ship as it gives chase to someone escaping. Positioning should be important

    What is the purpose of potions launchers?
    If there are no cannon balls to damage, to make holes and sink the ships... then the potions are meant only against players? Like very long range spells?

    We arent sure yet. My guess is that potion launchers will act as cannons
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Strevi wrote: »
    What is the purpose of potions launchers?
    If there are no cannon balls to damage, to make holes and sink the ships... then the potions are meant only against players? Like very long range spells?
    Long range spells. I wouldn't rule out Fire damage on ships, though.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    What is the purpose of potions launchers?
    If there are no cannon balls to damage, to make holes and sink the ships... then the potions are meant only against players? Like very long range spells?
    Long range spells. I wouldn't rule out Fire damage on ships, though.

    Can players repair ships in docks?
    If yes, then ships can be damaged somehow.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Using a 'potion cannon' could be like using SPG's in World of Tanks (without top down camera ofc). I'm sure there's a game with better reference to that firing method but I can't think of anything else.
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  • Potions which freeze the water could help catching fast ships.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Strevi wrote: »
    Potions which freeze the water could help catching fast ships.

    oooo I like it, basically a ship stun
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • I also like ses of thieves, was a lot of fun sailing alone, fighting the bff duo teams and my kamikaze raid !

    However, gathering and crafting is always boring in mmo, it is why the cost of building a boat is already to high for my kamikaze attacks !

    Wish, there will be node where we can "rent" a boat in order to (at least) enjoy fishing near the coast ;)

    Note for myself: find a way to "borrow" the leader flying mount... maybe for kitesurfing :p
  • Laffreux wrote: »
    I also like ses of thieves, was a lot of fun sailing alone, fighting the bff duo teams and my kamikaze raid !

    However, gathering and crafting is always boring in mmo, it is why the cost of building a boat is already to high for my kamikaze attacks !

    Wish, there will be node where we can "rent" a boat in order to (at least) enjoy fishing near the coast ;)

    Note for myself: find a way to "borrow" the leader flying mount... maybe for kitesurfing :p

    to each their own. I enjoy most aspects of MMOs whether it be crafting, gathering, or pvp
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • I like that in Lost Ark you can have NPC crew members that give bonuses.
    I like the way the best ships are super hard to get.
    I like that different ships have different pros and cons, ie. Speed, Health, Firepower.
  • @Dolyem : Most of the time gathering and crafting can be resume to a no brain 'click the button' thing but are also the bread and butter for the ingame mmo economy (selling/buying ressources, rare or epic parts).
    A boring must do mecanism because you cannot only rely on loots and rewards for gold and equipment.

    Back to your topic, sailing should be simple but hard to master (thanks Riot!), simple enough in order for the most to enjoy and have some fun fishing, treasure hunting, PvE or PvP and hard enough if people aim for challenging PvP and/or PvE end content.
    Can't wait to summon and fight Kraken, Cthulhu and more ^^
    About PvP, I was thinking about canon ball my crew or myself to board another ship !
    It is always better choice to sell a boat and keep the loots instead of sink the boat then dive for its loots ;p

    @Anyra : The more diversity the merrier !
  • edited September 4
    well if there is no cannons/firearms via gun power and the game is high fantasy, chances are it'll be magic orientated whether it be magic cannons, potion launchers or even ballista depending on ship design and siege weapon attachments allowed. Not sure if they'll go as far as mage cannons where certain classes can only fully utilise the artillery but who knows, maybe they will?
  • Strevi wrote: »
    I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.

    The Effectiveness of the cloak should increase or decrease depending on the weather.
    For example fog = better stealth while rain could "disrupt" the spells cloaking the ship making it normal visible.
    As visible it can be in rain.

    Another thing is cargo.
    Ships that are insensible cant have cargo onboard.
    Otherwise the meta would be to transport high value goods not with a fleet of warships but with a single small vessel sneaking by.

    ezgif.com-gif-maker2.gif
  • Xenotor wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    I would like to have ways to cloak small ships and stay invisible as long as enemies are not very close.

    Another thing I would like is to have underwater vehicles too which would not be crafted but biological and adjusted somehow to fit the role of underwater movement. I would see them like floating things, alive, but not animals. With a little bit of magic, players could use them to navigate below water too.

    The Effectiveness of the cloak should increase or decrease depending on the weather.
    For example fog = better stealth while rain could "disrupt" the spells cloaking the ship making it normal visible.
    As visible it can be in rain.

    Another thing is cargo.
    Ships that are invisible cant have cargo onboard.
    Otherwise the meta would be to transport high value goods not with a fleet of warships but with a single small vessel sneaking by.
    Sound good to prevent cloak from cargo ships.
    It is better than giving some cargo detection spell because ships can act as if they have cargo when they don't, distracting pirates, to help the real cargo ship pass safely.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Naval Combat, I'd like to see a variety of ship "classes" within the various tiers. focusing on naval combat I think their should be choices ship builders need to make between Speed / Carrying Capacity / Combat ability were raising one decreases the other 2. within combat ability I think you should be able to build into stealth features, Ramming durability or potion launchers/ballista. as far as crew goes I think you ought to be able to outfit a ship with a basic npc crew -> advanced sailors -> buccaneers who can control some of these however I think there should be a penalty to accuracy for npcs and having players man your weapons always be more efficient, (I'm not sure if you should be able to hire npc boarding crews)

    I'd like to see naval combat to work in a variety of phases,

    Ph 1 Spotting and the chase
    - being spotted should be intense, as you are uncertain if friend or foe (perhaps there could be a literal flag ships can fly to signal i'm friendly) eg fly a green flag if you don't want to pvp or even better be able to design custom pirate flags to quickly swap your green ones with when you get in close. but there should be a chase element between being spotted and engaging in combat

    Ph 2 ranged negotiations, combat and mutiny, I'd like to see perhaps a form of proximity VC where you can tell people on opposing sides to surrender etc. or lob some volleys of potions to soften them up, ships should have a number of things that van be impacted eg you sails should be flammable and as a captain you need to decide whether to cut the sails loose or risk the fire spreading. Ships should need to provision defenses like sand, water and potions to put out these fires, I'd like to see specific classes having different utility in naval warfare. (mutiny if you hire non guild members they should be able to try to mutiny and become hostile to there crew if given enough incentive by the opposing faction, eg you get a button called incentivize mutiny (bard skill?) where you can offer x% of the ships value or currency to encourage people to join your side if they do they join your party and become hostile to their old crew but in ph 4 if still alive they automatically get guaranteed that reward.

    Ph 3 boarding / ramming and melee combat, once a ship has become immobilized, you can choose to ram them or go for a clean boarding depending on your vessel type. I think ships should have an infirmary which can act as a temp respawn point with a long cd so that if you die early on you can keep the battle going / spectate for a bit to keep things interesting and fun. (mutineers do not respawn onboard)

    Ph 4 looting / scuttling or stealing the boat. Once captured you should be able to loot the ship and then you have a choice you can tow the ship which will allow you to take everything being transported at a severe speed cost or take what resources you can hold and scuttle/sink the old ship or if they surrendered perhaps you take a % and leave the ship to sail onward.

    with respect to boarding I think there should also be the possibility for some water mounts to act as raiding parties eg you and a few friends sail out with your ship hop in the water and mount up and try to close the distance while negotiations are taking place and your ship has the opponents attention, depending on the speed of your target I think some water mounts should be able to match or overtake heavily laden traders for example
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  • Ace1234Ace1234 Member
    edited September 6
    "I'd want long, medium, and short range directed, ballistic (e.g. arcing) attacks - that are action not target based. So between ship movement and wave action hitting your target effectively will take skill & timing, plus give those ships that don't want to be messed with a chance to escape as best they can.

    I'd also like to see a host of boarding techniques, the ability to destroy masts / sails, destroy hull integrity below the water line, and eliminate a ship's crew in order to steal a ship.

    Edit: OHHH - and knock players off the deck into the waiting jaws of hungry sharks."



    ^This- and too add, i think different area and damage based affects on the ships structure would be a nice feature- such as if you hit a weak point of a ship, or if the weak point takes enough damage then it can leak and cause the ship to start sinking, or if you hit a strong point maybe it can deflect the shot back to the target to a certain degree.
  • Dont know if this counts as an opinion or if this is what you're looking for as suggestions on this particular discussion, but I think that Sea of Thieves is an awesome game to take inspiration from on this particular topic, beein' the handling of the ships, the crew actually having to participate and even combat.
    I dont believe it should be possible to board from water unless the ship is completely still.
    I dont believe having submersion vehicles like submarines would be good for the game (only my opinion).
    Having said that I would like to be mounts that traverse underwater yes but not so on open sea where pvp is permitted or if possible they shouldnt be able to damage ships.

    Another thing maybe unrelated is that I would LOVE to see guilds focusing on trade across continents by sea and making contracts with other guilds solely for protection on open sea combat. Sure this can be done just talking but I think it should exist a party system on the open sea aswell like a raid party or some sort so you could purchase protection :)
  • @Xcorpyon
    Yea I love the idea of more types of contract in general, to enforce that verbalized agreement that can be made in so many different ways throughout the different game systems.
  • Ace1234 wrote: »
    @Xcorpyon
    Yea I love the idea of more types of contract in general, to enforce that verbalized agreement that can be made in so many different ways throughout the different game systems.


    Yeah I think it would be awesome and bring people together cause the same can be said about raiders like forming a big raiding party to attack ships hauling goods you know? I hope that there's the possibility to have like 10 ships full of goods making the trip belonging to several players inside a guild and like having like 5 more ships for protection and seeing that players that want to attack and steal be forced to make pacts aswell with other likeminded individuals in-order to be able to steal from such organized parties with alot of protection.

    Now regarding payment on such deals for protection it could either be an ammount agreed upon with the party that provided protection and be paid from "player to player" using a trade mechanic or it could like be sort of a "quest" where X% of the profit would go to the party that provided security :D I dunno if any of this is actually possible but it would be awesome because we all know that people/players not always uphold their word but that kinda makes part of the world and human race so .. xD
  • StreviStrevi Member
    edited September 5
    I would like a way to create a local cyclone.
    The rotation direction of the vortex could be random or with more skill, the direction could be influenced.

    To be proper, real skill related, I see it as trying to influence air pressure on the battle field.
    No need to be realistic but let's say is magic related pressure or something.

    The potion launcher has to target some areas visible on a special mini-map to create a pattern which would eventually create the cyclone.
    What will be important:
    - precision to hit certain points
    - the ammo type to change the state in a certain way
    - understanding the dynamic of what that mini-map shows. Waiting the right moment or acting fast enough could be important.
    - moving on the battlefield to attract the enemy ship into a certain spot or predicting where the ships will be when the effect is finally triggered
    - both ships might observe and try to influence the outcome, if both have the proper equipment and ammunition.

    What the vortex of the cyclone would do is up to be discussed. :smile:

    Maybe other effects can happen too, not only cyclones.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • AsraielAsraiel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    first thing comming in mind is the game Battleships, maybe with mutated seaturtles.

    or parcourt thru a field with explosive magic seamines
    boat races orderd by npc
    sea monster like kraken, or sea water whirlpools sucking the ship into the undersea traveling to the exit while batteling several amphibic mobs and bosses and behind the last boss is a watergeysir that brings you back to the normal sea.

    or a dungeon entrance where the ship getting wraped into a bubble in order to travel underwater but where the players need to be carefull so that the bubble doesnt burst. (one piece style)
  • I want pre ocean raid boss events where maelstroms appear and players caught in them when they open up have to maneuver the ship properly to make their escape out of it or get sunk and killed. Could have it where it hard to steer properly and you have to dodge debris caught in the maelstrom or everytime you hit some it sends you further back while simultaneously causing damage to the ship over the time youre in the maelstrom.
    Would be akin to WoW pre-expansion events. Massive storms, maelstroms, aggressive sea monsters. Would make for awesome precursors to Raid events in areas at sea.
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