Discussion: "Auction House" Do we REALLY need one?

I'm a boomer - I grew up to EQ. I know most people have gotten used to AH from WoW who made it the standard but I still gotta ask - Do we really need it?

Everquest did not have AH and IIRC Ragnarok either. EQ later in the Luclin Expansion created "Traders" aka Stalls like Ragnarok.

But during its classic days - Players who wanted to sell their fancy loots normally convened to East Commonland Tunnels to auction off their loot. This was organic and became a thing. A ritual - basically every Sunday the entire zone would show up to this area to sell their stuff. It was beautiful, it was also at the time CHAOTIC with dial-up modem and having 2000 players in a zone. But it was fond memories.

Where as AH - it removes the social interaction and it creates another mini-game. Playing the AH game, buy low sell high.

Now, I highly doubt something like that will happen in AOC But we can still do away with a official Auction House in cities and do more of a stall / Trader.

Let's look at Ragnork Online and even Ultima Online.

Nothing is global and if you wanted to buy goods - you would have to go to the city of your choice. Many times people would designate a city to be the MAIN HUB for trading / selling and sets up their cart to sell.
This makes sense with out caravan system. They shouldnt just drop their stuff to a NPC and have the NPC sell. We are creating jobs (crafter, processor, gatherers, smithies, etc) thus we should create sellers, vendors, carts. Let the players sit in town and sell their wares personally imho.

Actually let's look at Ultima Online (UO) which is probably the better one that aligns with AoC. In Ultima Online - you were able to place a home/castle/tower anywhere in the world. You were also able to purchase "NPC" who would sell your stuff at your home. So many players turned their little homes into shops. Able to use their anvil, and check each type of NPC, who sold different things (armor, swords only, spell component only) etc and decorate their stuff. While the owner can do his thing and/or also be in the city to sell his top shelf stuff.

Should AoC have a traditional Auction House like World of Warcraft that is localized to the city they are in or
Should we allow to organically create our space, market, bazaar - location of where we trade/sell?

Would you prefer a Cart to sell your wares or perhaps a NPC to sell your wares in town?
Would you prefer a cart in town and NPC at your own property?

how would you like to see AoC deal with players selling their goods.

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Comments

novercalis

Sathrago wrote: »

look ill put it simple. If not having AHs causes this game and its players to create 3rd party addons and websites that are annoying to engage with just to sell to other players like Path of Exile, I would much rather have the issue of AHs being a thing.

Since the dawn of the internet. Forums, boards, IRC chats was always a thing people would post their rare loots for sale. That is never going to stop. People will still come to this website forum and post the high end shit for top dollars. With or without AH - there will be a dedicated Discord AoC Trade channel - with every server listed to sell premium items, end game items - that isnt gonna stop.

Sathrago

novercalis wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

look ill put it simple. If not having AHs causes this game and its players to create 3rd party addons and websites that are annoying to engage with just to sell to other players like Path of Exile, I would much rather have the issue of AHs being a thing.

Since the dawn of the internet. Forums, boards, IRC chats was always a thing people would post their rare loots for sale. That is never going to stop. People will still come to this website forum and post the high end shit for top dollars. With or without AH - there will be a dedicated Discord AoC Trade channel - with every server listed to sell premium items, end game items - that isnt gonna stop.

Theres a difference between them existing and being forced to use them because there is no proper AH in the game.

Strevi

Sathrago wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

look ill put it simple. If not having AHs causes this game and its players to create 3rd party addons and websites that are annoying to engage with just to sell to other players like Path of Exile, I would much rather have the issue of AHs being a thing.

Since the dawn of the internet. Forums, boards, IRC chats was always a thing people would post their rare loots for sale. That is never going to stop. People will still come to this website forum and post the high end shit for top dollars. With or without AH - there will be a dedicated Discord AoC Trade channel - with every server listed to sell premium items, end game items - that isnt gonna stop.

Theres a difference between them existing and being forced to use them because there is no proper AH in the game.

Maybe players will have their own customers who wait for items to be produced and will buy them before they are even listed.
I see such a possibility if resources are scarce and players end up knowing each other.
Why sell weapons at higher price to somebody who will come with an army and burn your crops?
I would rather sell good tasty food cheaper to players in my town who know I am the local fisherman than to somebody who take my resources away.

If I see another fisherman from a town far away, I will complain to local authorities.

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

It's bad for the goods transportation and rarity if raw mats per region, as well for the stability of the prices.

I am somewhat interested in how you think it is bad for goods transportation here.

Aerlana

"if people do things out of the game to counter some game limits, ban them"

This is the idea to counter any kind of what players would do if there is not any AH ? ...
What about to ban people who do communication about what is happening in game with tools out of the game ? discord/teamspeak/mumble is a third party tool after all.

If you discover a site where people publish their goods to sell, or what they want to buy, you really think it deserve a mass ban to have the game remain "pure" ? At one point, if we go this way, people will just leave. Losing people because they dislike this free PvP while it is one basic of the game is a thing, but losing people because we only want the trade to be a hard thing to do is stupid.

To have an AH you need a specific node = an economic one, and to have it connected to others you need it to be inside the area of an Economic Metropolis. And to have it linked to another region AH... it needs your region and the other region being under a Economic metropolis... Remember that also, for travel facility, there is the same debate, with Scientific metropolis... Choices needs to be made... Dunno if military/religious node get as strong benefit as those, but while being already a lot subjectiv how strong those are... I begin personally to see people doing siege to get down a metropolis that doesnt fit their commercial interest...

OH WAIT we just saw another reason to siege some metropolis !

The current system limits the use of AH, and so, makes this thing a power full tool of a kind of nodes... if we want activ pvp outside of people killing each other in open world because why the fuck it, but REAL PvP, some WAR ... we need such kind of things.
Imagine, getting down the economic metropolis, how many trouble for the AH of smaller node not being linked anymore, all the comfort the inhabitents just lost, and how easy now it is to bring devastation on all of them while they struggle to adapt to this new uncomfortable situation ? Because yes, people are fast accustomed on comfort, and have hard time to do without it... to readapt themselves.

Also, there will do different economy. in area linked due to metropolis it will be large scale trade, while in area without it, we will be closer to a "local producer" system, which is far from being so bad... you know your customers, you know your sellers, and it creates link between people and both side could want to help each other in harsh time, while with AH, people trade with unknown they don't care...
Also, in Economic metropolis Area, each economic town (size needed to have any kind of product in AH) are in same market right ? so ... they are also rivals. If we producer selling our product in node A, we destroy node B... it means less sellers thru AH for a time right ? YAY another war, more blood !

Mag7spy wrote: »

Path of exile is the same way without a AH, people just use other websites.

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade

... You mean this official website that even allow you to have automatic message to do the deal saying the seller that you want THIS item he claimed at THIS price which is stored in THIS tab at THIS spot ?

This is the AH of POE, we speak here about a game where drop are RNG, and have RNG inside RNG, and RNG inside RNG inside RNG...
1) have to get the good weapon for the good implicit
2) have to get the good prefixes / suffixes (with if possible no more than 5 to also allow to add a craft)
3) have as high value as possible on each.

This site allow it to filtrate thru all the amount of different bonus you can have on items. The game is old, with lot of technic flaw everywhere... (hope many will go away with POE2 ^^') and i think it is easier to do this way that add the menu to look your items in game for GGG.
Now sellers doesnt need this website to publish what they are selling, only buyers have to go on the site

George_Black

Noaani wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

It's bad for the goods transportation and rarity if raw mats per region, as well for the stability of the prices.

I am somewhat interested in how you think it is bad for goods transportation here.

Resources are supposed to be spread out all over the map. If an eco metropols can link with other eco metropoloi, sharing all goods in the same AH this creates a web of reachable items, just waiting to be purchased from the nearest eco metropolis. So the whole point of resources being rare and people having to travel and transport, becomes less important.

It's bad for the whole caravan gameplay and the whole game.

Warth

Lets not kid ourself, Outsourced trade will happen a 100%. Probably through trade channels on a server discord.

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

It's bad for the goods transportation and rarity if raw mats per region, as well for the stability of the prices.

I am somewhat interested in how you think it is bad for goods transportation here.

Resources are supposed to be spread out all over the map. If an eco metropols can link with other eco metropoloi, sharing all goods in the same AH this creates a web of reachable items, just waiting to be purchased from the nearest eco metropolis. So the whole point of resources being rare and people having to travel and transport, becomes less important.

It's bad for the whole caravan gameplay and the whole game.

I mean, you still need to go and get the materials.

If you are in an economic node with an AH and you buy crafting materials in another node, those materials aren't magically transported to you. You still need to go to that node and get them, then bring them to where you want to use or resell them. If the amount of resources you just bought were enough to warrant a caravan to get them to your location, then guess what you'll be doing to get them where you want them...

There may be arguments against having auction houses in Ashes, but they wont have an effect on caravans at all.

Decidendi

I personally don't mind Auction Houses, even though I played games that heavily relied on player-set-shops. However, there is a problem with that too. You'd have people set up their alt shops to just sit in town 24/7 thus inflating the population and occupying server slots. So, unless there can be a system whereby players set their shops without the need of an actual character to sit in town and do nothing, I say AH make more sense.

CROW3

Not a fan of auction houses. I prefer market stalls from individual players as it slows the exchange rates between material and goods down, keeping overall currency flow manageable.

I like regionalized economies, as this helps build the node community. Processors will get to know their favorite gatherers. Crafters will know the right processors. And consumers the best of all three.

All of this draws node citizens together - especially when sieges / wars occur. You will WANT to defend your node.

If trade is too easy, if gatherers, processors, and crafters become too abstract, the community is indifferent and the whole node becomes meaningless.

Veeshan

Dolyem wrote: »

Checked the wiki. So theres different types that I assume you have to choose to build. Looks like at baseline its only raw/processed resources that you can sell.

Auction house locations

-Auction houses accompany unique node buildings in Economic nodes.[1]

-Markets in Village level economic nodes have auction houses that allow raw resources and processed goods to be posted.[1]
-Exchanges in Town nodes have expanded auction houses that allow all goods/items to be posted.[1]
-Economic nodes that have reached the metropolis stage unlock the linked economy superpower.[1]
-Up to two economic metropolises may be linked in this manner.[3]
-Metropolis level economic nodes enable worldwide sale prices for auction houses across Verra.[1]
Items listed in one linked economic node can be bid on from any other linked economic node.[1]
-Linked economies also connect an economic metropolis and its vassal economic nodes.[10][1]

Yeah i think this is a problem more than anything you bypass regional resources this way and negate ocean trading if there a economic metrolpis on each island.

Maybe this will be a reason for wat i guess to destroy one but i guess it has the power to completly uproot/change the world trading wise which i guess could be fun who knows

GrandHarfang

Reading the "Know Your Nodes : Economic Node Type", the Auction House in AoC does not seem too much overpowered until the Linked Economy superpower (which is intended to be, just like the Teleportation superpower of the Scientific node type). If anything, it's a QoL building, nothing more.

This, to me, seems like a non-issue. We'll have to see in the Alpha 2 and the Beta.

Sinedko

As far as i know, mats are very needful in Ashes, you cannot have gathering and crafting, so you will be constantly buying and selling stuff, therefore AH is good idea, and some automated stalls, i prefer AH, and i really hope i don't need to be in city to host a stall for me, otherwise you will not play game, because you will be stuck in city to sell items.

AH is good opinion, imagine you want to buy a coal, then you will need to cruise the whole city / multiple cities and find the right stall ... is this good for you? to searching for item you want to buy for a long time?

You guys thinks you want hardcore stuff, but certainly it will be a pain.

The economic node super power will be super good, there will be reason to have that node, so you can sell/buy items and level your professions faster. And im sure that lots of people will decide to create Eco node, because it will be better to sell items there. For me the Eco node should be constructed first on the server, then it will speed up processes for other nodes / professions / ships and warmachines.

Ludullu

Sinedko wrote: »

AH is good opinion, imagine you want to buy a coal, then you will need to cruise the whole city / multiple cities and find the right stall ... is this good for you? to searching for item you want to buy for a long time?

You guys thinks you want hardcore stuff, but certainly it will be a pain.

Yeah, I'd want that. Played with that kind of system for years and liked it.

Condemort

I see HA as a way for PvE people to influence the political world, since it takes money and resources to wage wars.
Making it optional is the right thing to do, let the economic Nodes and their Guild decide if they want HA or not.

Warth

Veeshan wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Checked the wiki. So theres different types that I assume you have to choose to build. Looks like at baseline its only raw/processed resources that you can sell.

Auction house locations

-Auction houses accompany unique node buildings in Economic nodes.[1]

-Markets in Village level economic nodes have auction houses that allow raw resources and processed goods to be posted.[1]
-Exchanges in Town nodes have expanded auction houses that allow all goods/items to be posted.[1]
-Economic nodes that have reached the metropolis stage unlock the linked economy superpower.[1]
-Up to two economic metropolises may be linked in this manner.[3]
-Metropolis level economic nodes enable worldwide sale prices for auction houses across Verra.[1]
Items listed in one linked economic node can be bid on from any other linked economic node.[1]
-Linked economies also connect an economic metropolis and its vassal economic nodes.[10][1]

Yeah i think this is a problem more than anything you bypass regional resources this way and negate ocean trading if there a economic metrolpis on each island.

Maybe this will be a reason for wat i guess to destroy one but i guess it has the power to completly uproot/change the world trading wise which i guess could be fun who knows

@Veeshan not how any of this works.

Look at @Noaani Post for reference.

George_Black

If many eco metropoloi share the same AH instead of being isolated then it is a problem.

A simple fix is for every eco node to have its own AH without being able to link in with others.

novercalis

Sinedko wrote: »

As far as i know, mats are very needful in Ashes, you cannot have gathering and crafting, so you will be constantly buying and selling stuff, therefore AH is good idea, and some automated stalls, i prefer AH, and i really hope i don't need to be in city to host a stall for me, otherwise you will not play game, because you will be stuck in city to sell items.

AH is good opinion, imagine you want to buy a coal, then you will need to cruise the whole city / multiple cities and find the right stall ... is this good for you? to searching for item you want to buy for a long time?

You guys thinks you want hardcore stuff, but certainly it will be a pain.

The economic node super power will be super good, there will be reason to have that node, so you can sell/buy items and level your professions faster. And im sure that lots of people will decide to create Eco node, because it will be better to sell items there. For me the Eco node should be constructed first on the server, then it will speed up processes for other nodes / professions / ships and warmachines.

No because people will make reputations. I will eventually learn/know who my processors, smithies, specific stall sellers who sells potions, herbs, ores, coals, etc... people specialize in stuff all the time in mmorpg that has stalls open. IE - Ragnarok online

Sathrago

George_Black wrote: »

If many eco metropoloi share the same AH instead of being isolated then it is a problem.

A simple fix is for every eco node to have its own AH without being able to link in with others.

Do you mean share as in they can see each others listings or share as in items get magically teleported across the world to each other at no risk? Because my assumption was the former being the game plan.

George_Black

I read a quote somewhere in this thead that lv6 eco nodes can link up with the othrr lv6 eco nodes of the server, unifiying the AH.
And that is a problem because I can see people focusing only on making lv6 eco nodes to try to reduce the distance to the nearest AH (which is link to all the rest).

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