@Dolyem
You gave your take then empty opinion and told me to "sit down kid".
You didn't respond to the content of that post at all. Basically, you give your low effort rehearsed take then tried to feud with me instead of having a constructive discussion.
Get fuckin' real
I told you to sit down after you insulted me 🤣 you threw a constructive discussion out of the window right after you started insulting people. Which so far seems to be the case for every one of your discussion posts. You're hostile and unreasonable to every person who disagrees with you.
Was I wrong? Are you prone to getting lost and confused or not.
And no it's not every person. It's only people that want to start feuding and stop responding to the topic at hand.
You are indeed wrong. And I did respond to the topic at hand. It only went off topic once you became hostile or disrespectful.
The game gets no faction.
Factions will be player's fact. The PvE is part of the world with world bosses and dungeons, bind to lore, nodes, etc.
Your idea creates a faction, a danger for players to gather against. It is not a totally bad idea, but contrary to the base concept of the open world of AoC and what was sold to players.
People here paid, or simply came on forum for what the base concept is. Sure not all have same mindset, and for some smaller part, there are debate. Global chat, tracker, vocal chat, or the most debate point : corruption.
But none here wants change on the base design, the foundation of the game...
If you come, and want to change foundation to fit more your own taste, sure everyone will say your ideas are stupids. It would be like getting on mortal 2 forums to ask less punishing PvP, more PvE, a corruption system or what else. Getting on WoW and try to get the game to go full open world PvP (instead of current opt in situation) or getting on PoE forum and complain about complexity of passiv skill tree, and gem skill system.
No core concept or mechanic would be changed though.
It's still nodes and building up. Leaving no room for genuine threats that can push "civilization" back is not exciting.
If players do not want to fight each other for resources, but they still pay monthly subscription then maybe the game was successful enough.
Of course that means it was successful for a different category of players.
My problem with the corruption being that force which pushes "civilization" back is that it is PvE which cannot be made as varied as a PvP fight. Players will always try different strategies.
Somebody said that the Alpha 2 will come in 2026. If that is the case, any additional content like massive PvE fights over the entire map would push the final release 2-3 years further away.
3.5 minutes from one Node to the other is less time than it takes me to walk down the street lmao.
3.5 minutes is nothing and the concept is not living up to any hype.
World needs to be 3x bigger once again and have bigger threats with people furiously struggling to work together and barely eeking through.
I agree with this. But that time was measured or calculated without considering terrain, NPCs, players...
I think that was a theoretical best case.
In any case they seem to be aware and just made the map larger. Adding even more water is easy
Most developers are lazy when it comes to PvE design. It would require decent AI but there is a lot of literature from industry pros on the topic.
The approach of AI shouldn't be static and easily exploitable. Some things can be exploited if they are engineered way too simply but having nothing players could possibly exploit is just a void where a game feature could be.
Some PvP players in all likelihood will get a sick kick out of sabotaging nodes; timing their sieges to coincide with PvE sieges. That's already a thing though. I don't think it's a big deal or will happen often though. If you know your neighbor is quite a problem to you, you have to 'strategize' more. PvE seeking you out increases the difficulty PvP can pose and the difficulty of PvE itself.
If it takes till 2026 for Alpha 2 it's the team not the probem lol.
Terrain is mostly unobstructive whenever there's terrain in MMOs or it looks really artificial and urban; 4.25 minutes is much of the same. It's 3.5 minutes after the expand so it was 1.75 minutes before, WAY worse.
Something like 13 minutes; given terrain; would allow for a 'wild' between nodes and numerous interesting resource gathering challenges such as I suggest in the Caravan thread.
With the additional high high and mid high challenges to resource gathering and room for smaller probably safer "berry picking" resource collection there is a 'bottleneck' that will last long enough for players to seek out others to overcome the challenge in groups.
Overcoming the challenge will open up the larger resource like with the Mining idea, and still allow for opposing NPC factions to then try and battle for that resource or other PLAYERS battle for that resource.
Then again what's the point of being a loyal citizen lol?
?
Content you can't opt out of leads to people getting pissed off. That's what difficult team games do. That means feuds. That means heated Nodes. Hence PvE should be kicking the hornet's nest.
@Dolyem
You gave your take then empty opinion and told me to "sit down kid"
Get fuckin' real
Every post I have seen from you has just been terrible... Slating the A1 classes when the combat has been reworked.. saying there's no depth to design and now the best of all you want to de-level people? Characters deleted? Game over? That is not an MMO...
You have to be one of the worst shit posters on the forums.
A0 is what I meant. I confused the names I guess. The A0 combat was aweful and what they showed up until the melee with spells looked OK at times but I don't think spammy spells is a deep class identity in the least.
De-leveling is not as terrible if progression in the world is not so significantly resting on your level.
Attribute dampening on death is already planned for Ashes of Creation; I don't know if that's a 5 minute or 10 minute debuff or what.
But mindless bridge burning because "who cares lol respawning in 1 then grinding" is not fun and they have a point. Who cares. Trivializing player decisions and skill by lowering consequences does not excite anyone.
Game over/ Delete in my suggestion is from World State. When the NPCs literally win. Nodes dead. Players dead. Can't spawn without getting zerged or whatnot; stalemate timer might countdown like a great big clock tower and finally the world is Abandoned by The Gods to disintegrate into The Void.
Maybe a timeline could be available online to see what happened lol that would be sick.
The game gets no faction.
Factions will be player's fact. The PvE is part of the world with world bosses and dungeons, bind to lore, nodes, etc.
Your idea creates a faction, a danger for players to gather against. It is not a totally bad idea, but contrary to the base concept of the open world of AoC and what was sold to players.
People here paid, or simply came on forum for what the base concept is. Sure not all have same mindset, and for some smaller part, there are debate. Global chat, tracker, vocal chat, or the most debate point : corruption.
But none here wants change on the base design, the foundation of the game...
If you come, and want to change foundation to fit more your own taste, sure everyone will say your ideas are stupids. It would be like getting on mortal 2 forums to ask less punishing PvP, more PvE, a corruption system or what else. Getting on WoW and try to get the game to go full open world PvP (instead of current opt in situation) or getting on PoE forum and complain about complexity of passiv skill tree, and gem skill system.
You are saying an enemy faction contradicts the concept of an open world?
?
@Dolyem
You gave your take then empty opinion and told me to "sit down kid".
You didn't respond to the content of that post at all. Basically, you give your low effort rehearsed take then tried to feud with me instead of having a constructive discussion.
Get fuckin' real
I told you to sit down after you insulted me 🤣 you threw a constructive discussion out of the window right after you started insulting people. Which so far seems to be the case for every one of your discussion posts. You're hostile and unreasonable to every person who disagrees with you.
Was I wrong? Are you prone to getting lost and confused or not.
And no it's not every person. It's only people that want to start feuding and stop responding to the topic at hand.
You are indeed wrong. And I did respond to the topic at hand. It only went off topic once you became hostile or disrespectful.
You mean when I said I suspect you guys are prone to getting lost and confused?
Hey Sap,
You have so many ideas that you are so passionate about, why don't you do what Steven is doing and:
Go Make Your Own Game.
If your ideas are really as good as you think they are, then you will gain a loyal following who want to play your game, just like has happened with Stephen. If you are as smart as you seem to think you are, then you should be able to self-fund the development (as Stephen is doing) but you will do better because you can avoid hiring "lazy programmers".
Please post back here when you have your game boards open so we can come see how you are doing and leave our comments.
Thanks and best wishes, TT.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I played NWN on a server with less severe death penalty. I think it was all the xp in your current level, and ½ into the previous level. They wanted people to group... The server was dead, so it was impossible to team up. There is a reason where there are barely any mmo's with such systems. Maybe look into Josh Strifes video on why those mmo's aren't out there. Plus from what i can see, you don't seem to be able to handle anyone disagreeing with you. Plus your posts doesn't get any likes, but people that argue against you does
Every time I see one of your threads I know it's going to turn into an argument, it makes me wonder if there are mods here that would just lock these threads down when they go off course.
Hey Sap,
You have so many ideas that you are so passionate about, why don't you do what Steven is doing and:
Go Make Your Own Game.
If your ideas are really as good as you think they are, then you will gain a loyal following who want to play your game, just like has happened with Stephen. If you are as smart as you seem to think you are, then you should be able to self-fund the development (as Stephen is doing) but you will do better because you can avoid hiring "lazy programmers".
Please post back here when you have your game boards open so we can come see how you are doing and leave our comments.
Thanks and best wishes, TT.
Why would I make a game for people I don't like? Clearly through all this I've found more reasons to not make a game.
Here is a timestamped video of an example Dev team trying to impress with cheaply available tools. You can see what UE5 is capable and the map creation tools available and understand that the world creation is one of easiest parts of Ashes of Creation.
I am guessing, an educated guess, that the real-time biome changing is based on some other people's work though possibly with some competent repurposing of its parts and a few data structures added with maybe some fiddling.
The tools available make this very easy for someone familiar with them; the literal physical work required is very very low. The ability of the animation developer [tool user] determines the speed at which it gets done.
As with a previous example: A master artist creates masterpieces in minutes; but it took them a decade or more to learn and costs you a few grand.
Keep in mind animations/ riggings can be used for the basis of other animations/ riggings; meaning you don't start from scratch every time.
It's not certain whether AoC will deliver on any of its promises and I don't inhale copium or whatever so suffer your withdrawls.
I played NWN on a server with less severe death penalty. I think it was all the xp in your current level, and ½ into the previous level. They wanted people to group... The server was dead, so it was impossible to team up. There is a reason where there are barely any mmo's with such systems. Maybe look into Josh Strifes video on why those mmo's aren't out there. Plus from what i can see, you don't seem to be able to handle anyone disagreeing with you. Plus your posts doesn't get any likes, but people that argue against you does
Sounds aweful. Severe deleveling doesn't work for a game that amounts to "go to X and clear the enemies or sit in town" and has extreme power scaling.
If Level 10 was maybe a third the power of level 100 [gear included] and skill of execution was a greater determinate of outcome; with mitigating XP loss as you die more; and every hour of gameplay was fun due to the gameplay itself rather than the progression --> it would not be an aweful experience.
Never Winter Nights does not compare really.
Most MMOs have the max level at 20x the power of the level 5 or 10 and it's an extreme grind to get there; I abhor such an extreme waste of time.
I do not think max level should be in a realm of its own.
I don't care much about popularity. Most people are isolated, disassociated and poor communicators even though they think otherwise.
You are saying an enemy faction contradicts the concept of an open world?
?
No, the concept of the open world Ashes of Creation aim, with the nodes being totally in hand of players and nothing else.
Also you add (as most of your ideas if not all) a "survival game" dimension, which is a specific genre of video game, a good one, but this is not at all the genre of ashes, not even slightly.
You are saying an enemy faction contradicts the concept of an open world?
?
No, the concept of the open world Ashes of Creation aim, with the nodes being totally in hand of players and nothing else.
Also you add (as most of your ideas if not all) a "survival game" dimension, which is a specific genre of video game, a good one, but this is not at all the genre of ashes, not even slightly.
Why do you say the node is totally in the hand of players? What are seiges to you? You are being assumptuous it seems.
Monsters are already set to attack nodes, with some or all allowing players to participate sure but there is not too much distinction between surviving players and surviving intelligent AI lol.
Comments
You are indeed wrong. And I did respond to the topic at hand. It only went off topic once you became hostile or disrespectful.
Factions will be player's fact. The PvE is part of the world with world bosses and dungeons, bind to lore, nodes, etc.
Your idea creates a faction, a danger for players to gather against. It is not a totally bad idea, but contrary to the base concept of the open world of AoC and what was sold to players.
People here paid, or simply came on forum for what the base concept is. Sure not all have same mindset, and for some smaller part, there are debate. Global chat, tracker, vocal chat, or the most debate point : corruption.
But none here wants change on the base design, the foundation of the game...
If you come, and want to change foundation to fit more your own taste, sure everyone will say your ideas are stupids. It would be like getting on mortal 2 forums to ask less punishing PvP, more PvE, a corruption system or what else. Getting on WoW and try to get the game to go full open world PvP (instead of current opt in situation) or getting on PoE forum and complain about complexity of passiv skill tree, and gem skill system.
Most developers are lazy when it comes to PvE design. It would require decent AI but there is a lot of literature from industry pros on the topic.
The approach of AI shouldn't be static and easily exploitable. Some things can be exploited if they are engineered way too simply but having nothing players could possibly exploit is just a void where a game feature could be.
Some PvP players in all likelihood will get a sick kick out of sabotaging nodes; timing their sieges to coincide with PvE sieges. That's already a thing though. I don't think it's a big deal or will happen often though. If you know your neighbor is quite a problem to you, you have to 'strategize' more. PvE seeking you out increases the difficulty PvP can pose and the difficulty of PvE itself.
If it takes till 2026 for Alpha 2 it's the team not the probem lol.
Terrain is mostly unobstructive whenever there's terrain in MMOs or it looks really artificial and urban; 4.25 minutes is much of the same. It's 3.5 minutes after the expand so it was 1.75 minutes before, WAY worse.
Something like 13 minutes; given terrain; would allow for a 'wild' between nodes and numerous interesting resource gathering challenges such as I suggest in the Caravan thread.
With the additional high high and mid high challenges to resource gathering and room for smaller probably safer "berry picking" resource collection there is a 'bottleneck' that will last long enough for players to seek out others to overcome the challenge in groups.
Overcoming the challenge will open up the larger resource like with the Mining idea, and still allow for opposing NPC factions to then try and battle for that resource or other PLAYERS battle for that resource.
Then again what's the point of being a loyal citizen lol?
?
Content you can't opt out of leads to people getting pissed off. That's what difficult team games do. That means feuds. That means heated Nodes. Hence PvE should be kicking the hornet's nest.
A0 is what I meant. I confused the names I guess. The A0 combat was aweful and what they showed up until the melee with spells looked OK at times but I don't think spammy spells is a deep class identity in the least.
De-leveling is not as terrible if progression in the world is not so significantly resting on your level.
Attribute dampening on death is already planned for Ashes of Creation; I don't know if that's a 5 minute or 10 minute debuff or what.
But mindless bridge burning because "who cares lol respawning in 1 then grinding" is not fun and they have a point. Who cares. Trivializing player decisions and skill by lowering consequences does not excite anyone.
Game over/ Delete in my suggestion is from World State. When the NPCs literally win. Nodes dead. Players dead. Can't spawn without getting zerged or whatnot; stalemate timer might countdown like a great big clock tower and finally the world is Abandoned by The Gods to disintegrate into The Void.
Maybe a timeline could be available online to see what happened lol that would be sick.
You are saying an enemy faction contradicts the concept of an open world?
?
You mean when I said I suspect you guys are prone to getting lost and confused?
What moral support system.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins
Anyone here want to complain about Corruption zones and Monster Coin events? Or do you guys like them?
You're so close. Enlightenment is there, just out of grasp as stubbornness pulls you back.
You can opt out of a game, don't worry.
I think all of your ideas so far are pretty terrible.
Might be something worth looking into there, holmes.
@Sathrago
https://chng.it/wm4V9qqDHP
Please sign this petition.
You have so many ideas that you are so passionate about, why don't you do what Steven is doing and:
Go Make Your Own Game.
If your ideas are really as good as you think they are, then you will gain a loyal following who want to play your game, just like has happened with Stephen. If you are as smart as you seem to think you are, then you should be able to self-fund the development (as Stephen is doing) but you will do better because you can avoid hiring "lazy programmers".
Please post back here when you have your game boards open so we can come see how you are doing and leave our comments.
Thanks and best wishes, TT.
I played NWN on a server with less severe death penalty. I think it was all the xp in your current level, and ½ into the previous level. They wanted people to group... The server was dead, so it was impossible to team up. There is a reason where there are barely any mmo's with such systems. Maybe look into Josh Strifes video on why those mmo's aren't out there. Plus from what i can see, you don't seem to be able to handle anyone disagreeing with you. Plus your posts doesn't get any likes, but people that argue against you does
Why would I make a game for people I don't like? Clearly through all this I've found more reasons to not make a game.
And it's not your game it's an individual's.
Here is a timestamped video of an example Dev team trying to impress with cheaply available tools. You can see what UE5 is capable and the map creation tools available and understand that the world creation is one of easiest parts of Ashes of Creation.
I am guessing, an educated guess, that the real-time biome changing is based on some other people's work though possibly with some competent repurposing of its parts and a few data structures added with maybe some fiddling.
As for Animations:
Here is an animation workflow reference in case it seems arcane to you:
Another workflow reference but for rigging:
The tools available make this very easy for someone familiar with them; the literal physical work required is very very low. The ability of the animation developer [tool user] determines the speed at which it gets done.
As with a previous example: A master artist creates masterpieces in minutes; but it took them a decade or more to learn and costs you a few grand.
Keep in mind animations/ riggings can be used for the basis of other animations/ riggings; meaning you don't start from scratch every time.
It's not certain whether AoC will deliver on any of its promises and I don't inhale copium or whatever so suffer your withdrawls.
Sounds aweful. Severe deleveling doesn't work for a game that amounts to "go to X and clear the enemies or sit in town" and has extreme power scaling.
If Level 10 was maybe a third the power of level 100 [gear included] and skill of execution was a greater determinate of outcome; with mitigating XP loss as you die more; and every hour of gameplay was fun due to the gameplay itself rather than the progression --> it would not be an aweful experience.
Never Winter Nights does not compare really.
Most MMOs have the max level at 20x the power of the level 5 or 10 and it's an extreme grind to get there; I abhor such an extreme waste of time.
I do not think max level should be in a realm of its own.
I don't care much about popularity. Most people are isolated, disassociated and poor communicators even though they think otherwise.
No, the concept of the open world Ashes of Creation aim, with the nodes being totally in hand of players and nothing else.
Also you add (as most of your ideas if not all) a "survival game" dimension, which is a specific genre of video game, a good one, but this is not at all the genre of ashes, not even slightly.
Why do you say the node is totally in the hand of players? What are seiges to you? You are being assumptuous it seems.
Monsters are already set to attack nodes, with some or all allowing players to participate sure but there is not too much distinction between surviving players and surviving intelligent AI lol.