Over-enchanting drama

If over-enchanting destroys items

Over-enchanting items comes with a potential risk that the item decays or is destroyed if a safety margin is exceeded. This system is subject to testing.[10][11]

How can players know that the artisan indeed lost the item and not just pretends to be so?
I assume that the process of enchantment takes time and will not happen in a few seconds, while the customer is watching.
But if it is indeed a visual process the player can observe, then he might see how his weapon breaks into pieces.

Edit:
Some players do not like the RNG associated with the enchantment.
Should item sink take place through a different game mechanic?

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Rando88

Strevi wrote: »

If over-enchanting destroys items

Over-enchanting items comes with a potential risk that the item decays or is destroyed if a safety margin is exceeded. This system is subject to testing.[10][11]

How can players know that the artisan indeed lost the item and not just pretends to be so?
I assume that the process of enchantment takes time and will not happen in a few seconds, while the customer is watching.
But if it is indeed a visual process the player can observe, then he might see how his weapon breaks into pieces.

I can see there being some sort of trade window where you can put the item in and the enchanter can do it through that window.

hleV

There's hoping you won't have to just give your item to a stranger and hope to not get scammed.

Hinotori

Strevi wrote: »

If over-enchanting destroys items

Over-enchanting items comes with a potential risk that the item decays or is destroyed if a safety margin is exceeded. This system is subject to testing.[10][11]

How can players know that the artisan indeed lost the item and not just pretends to be so?
I assume that the process of enchantment takes time and will not happen in a few seconds, while the customer is watching.
But if it is indeed a visual process the player can observe, then he might see how his weapon breaks into pieces.

The game will have an escrow system when you need to have an artisan do anything with your items.

GrandHarfang

Natasha wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If over-enchanting destroys items

Over-enchanting items comes with a potential risk that the item decays or is destroyed if a safety margin is exceeded. This system is subject to testing.[10][11]

How can players know that the artisan indeed lost the item and not just pretends to be so?
I assume that the process of enchantment takes time and will not happen in a few seconds, while the customer is watching.
But if it is indeed a visual process the player can observe, then he might see how his weapon breaks into pieces.

The game will have an escrow system when you need to have an artisan do anything with your items.

That color doesn't work well on mobile 😅

Hinotori

GrandHarfang wrote: »

That color doesn't work well on mobile 😅

I'll keep that in mind to mess with people

Strevi

Natasha wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If over-enchanting destroys items

Over-enchanting items comes with a potential risk that the item decays or is destroyed if a safety margin is exceeded. This system is subject to testing.[10][11]

How can players know that the artisan indeed lost the item and not just pretends to be so?
I assume that the process of enchantment takes time and will not happen in a few seconds, while the customer is watching.
But if it is indeed a visual process the player can observe, then he might see how his weapon breaks into pieces.

The game will have an escrow system when you need to have an artisan do anything with your items.

I know the caravans will have an escrow system. But why would the artisan be responsible for the RNG in the game?

Warth

You dont give your items to others to enchant. There is no enchanter profession.
You buy the enchantment scrolls off the scribes then do it yourself.

Strevi

Rando88 wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If over-enchanting destroys items

Over-enchanting items comes with a potential risk that the item decays or is destroyed if a safety margin is exceeded. This system is subject to testing.[10][11]

How can players know that the artisan indeed lost the item and not just pretends to be so?
I assume that the process of enchantment takes time and will not happen in a few seconds, while the customer is watching.
But if it is indeed a visual process the player can observe, then he might see how his weapon breaks into pieces.

I can see there being some sort of trade window where you can put the item in and the enchanter can do it through that window.

That can work for a fast enchanting. Then the item disappears.

Or is replaced with a broken item.

That trade window can actually be anything, even a task in a task list, where all involved parties see the status. Then the customer must provide all materials involved into the enchanting process, so that no item to be added or removed. Then the original item being destroyed would definitely mean that it was not replaced.

Strevi

Warth wrote: »

You dont give your items to others to enchant. There is no enchanter profession.
You buy the enchantment scrolls off the scribes then do it yourself.

Thanks! I was also confused that not seeing a profession. I thought more professions do this.
Then this solves the problem.

Hinotori

Strevi wrote: »

I know the caravans will have an escrow system. But why would the artisan be responsible for the RNG in the game?

As stated above its not for enchants, it's for having artisans take your materials and turn them into ships or weapon crafting or parts for housing and so on.

So they're unable to steal them. if the work isnt completed it just gets returned to you.

Jahlon

1: There is an escrow system in Ashes. You never have to give your items to someone else
2: We don't even know if you do the enchantment for other people. Enchantment isn't currently listed as a crafting profession.

FuryBladeborne

Jahlon wrote: »

1: There is an escrow system in Ashes. You never have to give your items to someone else
2: We don't even know if you do the enchantment for other people. Enchantment isn't currently listed as a crafting profession.

Strevi wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

You dont give your items to others to enchant. There is no enchanter profession.
You buy the enchantment scrolls off the scribes then do it yourself.

Thanks! I was also confused that not seeing a profession. I thought more professions do this.
Then this solves the problem.

There is not an enchantment profession; however, scribes create scrolls that are used for enchanting.

The enchanting scrolls are not necessarily used by the player for upgrades, rather they are apparently used as part of the components for upgrades by professions other than scribe. "Scribes create scrolls that can be utilized by different professions to create enchantments relating to that profession."
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Enchanting

There is also an escrow system for crafting that basically allows a crafter to open a window that the buyer will place items into which will then perform the crafting. Or something like that.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Escrow_system

drclawx

I think enchanting should be handled by the players themselves, buy scrolls enchant your own gear.

Sathrago

If they just make it decay only I think that's the best solution. Having a chance to destroy a presumably valuable item just isnt good for crafting systems.

Strevi

Sathrago wrote: »

If they just make it decay only I think that's the best solution. Having a chance to destroy a presumably valuable item just isnt good for crafting systems.

It should actually explode sometimes... when using low quality materials.
Or depending on enchantment, other accidents could happen too: fire, poison, demon summon...
Risk vs Reward

Mag7spy

Anything that wants gear to blow up doesn't understand how bad enhancing is. It is the same people that wont play lost ark or BDO and yet wanting systems that killed those games.

Sathrago

Strevi wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

If they just make it decay only I think that's the best solution. Having a chance to destroy a presumably valuable item just isnt good for crafting systems.

It should actually explode sometimes... when using low quality materials.
Risk vs Reward

Or just have it so that only equivalent or higher value materials can be used. The more powerful the materials used, the higher chance that the item has durability removed and quantity of durability. If we need an item destruction mechanic, make items have a chance of being destroyed when they hit 0 durability. This still would apply to your enchanting, and now it works from death and other effects that might cause durability loss.

I really don't like an uncontrollable rng destroying my items when I'm attempting to make them better. Imo if they are dead set on it being risk vs reward, having you lose durability on a failure is already risk enough. Because you now have to go get more materials to put into your weapon which may or may not be quite costly to you.
And if you were not aware, if your durability hits 0 its unequipped and unusable until you repair it. At that point you are required to either get rid of the item or sink almost its full cost in materials to repair it. We don't know the full percentage of cost, but it sounds like it will be close to 100% to repair a 0 durability item. I would guess 70-80%.

Strevi

Mag7spy wrote: »

Anything that wants gear to blow up doesn't understand how bad enhancing is. It is the same people that wont play lost ark or BDO and yet wanting systems that killed those games.

PvE players say on other forums that PvP kills the games.
Some say if only 20k players play, the game is dead or failed.

Strevi

Sathrago wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

If they just make it decay only I think that's the best solution. Having a chance to destroy a presumably valuable item just isnt good for crafting systems.

It should actually explode sometimes... when using low quality materials.
Risk vs Reward

Or just have it so that only equivalent or higher value materials can be used. The more powerful the materials used, the higher chance that the item has durability removed and quantity of durability. If we need an item destruction mechanic, make items have a chance of being destroyed when they hit 0 durability. This still would apply to your enchanting, and now it works from death and other effects that might cause durability loss.

I really don't like an uncontrollable rng destroying my items when I'm attempting to make them better. Imo if they are dead set on it being risk vs reward, having you lose durability on a failure is already risk enough. Because you now have to go get more materials to put into your weapon which may or may not be quite costly to you.
And if you were not aware, if your durability hits 0 its unequipped and unusable until you repair it. At that point you are required to either get rid of the item or sink almost its full cost in materials to repair it. We don't know the full percentage of cost, but it sounds like it will be close to 100% to repair a 0 durability item. I would guess 70-80%.

While you was writing your reply, I also updated my post and added that with high quality materials the chance of destruction to be lower. Actually I would prefer the chance to be 0%.
The fun part would be to cause some damage around when working with low quality materials: explosions, toxic clouds, fire, frost... maybe affecting nearby crops too.

But, there are a few things I want to clarify:
1) if producing items is hard and rewarding, but repairing them is easy and boring, as a crafter I would be quite disappointed. This is one reason why I think there should be item sink too, not only resource sink. For the customer might be the same cost but for the artisan is about how he plays the game
2) if the item destruction lies on other players (PvP) then those who lose call them toxic or even if not, they might leave the game. The degradation has to be slow enough to give enough time for the player to react and have a backup gear.

Strevi

Maybe item repair can be as fun as producing the items.

Let's say the item is very easy to produce but applying the enchantments could be complex.
I imagine a player coming to me and giving me a sword and asking if I can reverse engineer how it was produced, because the original artisan left the game and didn't told him how he did it.

If some complex work has to be done to remove (at least partially) the previous enchantments and then apply the next ones to reach a certain state, then this could be the essence of weapon production.

The best weapon and armor smiths might be the ones which master the scribe profession too because to reverse engineer applied enchantments could be the scribe skill.

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