Would like to see revival of Support classes

It may be a bit late in the game to talk about this but, like the title says, I'd love to see true support roles return to MMOs. Current games will have classes that provide a group/raid wide buff or maybe a utility like a temporary run buff, however this is usually just an add-on to another main role. As in a dps class will do slightly less dps in exchange for having a single group enhancement.

What I'm talking about are classes solely dedicated to support and cc. Examples would be EQ2's Illusionist, or SWG's Squad Leader. While the classes did have some combat abilities, these merely supplemented their main role of buff/debuff and crowd control. Their main job was to enhance party members and lock down/distract enemies. The roles really helped expand what a party could handle and a skilled support could save a party from a rough situation even better than a healer.

Just my two cents, I miss the diversity those classes added to the games they were in.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Sapiverenus

sounds good

daveywavey

Maybe we could have a Cleric archetype to pump out Healing, and maybe a Bard archetype for Buffs, and .....

Oh wait...

Sapiverenus

Illusions to distract is slightly more unique though. healing ##s and stat ## changes are not creative.
Sounds like he'll play Tank at release if it's a Control role.

Probably nothing to "return to MMOs" though lol.
Name 3 unique support abilities @Diamaht

I'd scrounge around looking through Dota 2 and even League of Legends to find them.

Aerlana

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Illusions to distract is slightly more unique though. healing ##s and stat ## changes are not creative.
Sounds like he'll play Tank at release if it's a Control role.

Probably nothing to "return to MMOs" though lol.
Name 3 unique support abilities @Diamaht

I'd scrounge around looking through Dota 2 and even League of Legends to find them.

it seems you say that mmorpgs didnt have support . . .
But i probably misunderstood
...
I hope

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Illusions to distract is slightly more unique though. healing ##s and stat ## changes are not creative.
Sounds like he'll play Tank at release if it's a Control role.

Probably nothing to "return to MMOs" though lol.
Name 3 unique support abilities @Diamaht

I'd scrounge around looking through Dota 2 and even League of Legends to find them.

Charm - take over an enemy for a short duration.
Group invis - like invis/stealth, but for a group.
Soothe - reduces the range a mob aggros you or your group.

I feel I can answer for Diamaht, as all of the above are support abilities from EQ2 - a game he talked about in the OP.

Noaani

Aerlana wrote: »

it seems you say that mmorpgs didnt have support . . .
But i probably misunderstood
...
I hope

Very few MMO's have support classes.

Support =/= healer.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani

Do MMOs not have classes that comprise of mostly stuff like this? Pretty sure they do.

Diamaht probably is just hoping the game is a bit deeper overall.

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

@Noaani

Do MMOs not have classes that comprise of mostly stuff like this? Pretty sure they do.

Diamaht probably is just hoping the game is a bit deeper overall.

Most do not.

Some do - EQ/EQ2 do, and SWG did.

Most other games have classes that fit within the trinity (tank, healer, DPS) that have a smattering of support skills, but are not in themselves support classes.

EQ2, just for reference, had 4 of it's 24 classes as support.

As to Diamaht hoping the game will be deeper, Intrepid have said the game will have support classes. They specifically said this in relation to the trinity system from most MMO's, labeling Ashes has having a quadnity system rather than a trinity system.

Sapiverenus

I guess I have reason to repost this then.

JustVine

What is people's definition of support here? This is starting to sound like different people have different definitions.

Aerlana

Noaani wrote: »

Aerlana wrote: »

it seems you say that mmorpgs didnt have support . . .
But i probably misunderstood
...
I hope

Very few MMO's have support classes.

Support =/= healer.

i am totally ok to differenciate support from healer... i always did, and realyl dislike "cleric" being support while (for what we know now) it is mainly a healer.
Also, with summoner feeling not to be "support" but more for a "joker" role, being able to take an off tank pet then return DPS, then go to support (healing?) pet when needed.

but ... his message feels more like "support was not a thing in MMORPG) which is false, it disappeared (or mostly disappeared) but i have good example in mind...

JustVine wrote: »

What is people's definition of support here? This is starting to sound like different people have different definitions.

For me a support :
A character that is weak by itself, but more worth in the team efficiency than any of the other character in the team. Because while it can't heal well, do big damages and do decent tanking, the buffs/debuffs he provides makes him suddenly far more valuable

A class that by itself have like 60% or less of efficiency of any other class, but that will boost the efficiency of other characters by 10%, 20% or more (don't take numbers as "reference" just more example to explain myself)

A good example i like to give : shadowpriest during burning crusade. the lowest damages (clearly low damages). but was really usefull, powerfull to have one in party : mana fountain for healers (better than a druid for one more innerv, or another shamheal for the manatide totem) and also increased shadowdamage around 10% if my memory is good... with one of the top DPS class being totally on shadow...
so +10% to often 2 or 3 character in the raid, while giving lot of mana to healers who could need it... totally worth the loss of DPS to have it instead of a true DPS.

Other good examples are red mage and bard in FFXI. the first being easily replaced by a BLM or a WHM, but its debuff makes him as mandatory as those two powerfull jobs. And the second having close ot no damages, but allowing raid to have really huge boosts.

It feels that this will be the bard spot for AoC (cleric feeling more on healer, and summoner more a "joker" )

Noaani

Sapiverenus wrote: »

I guess I have reason to repost this then.

No, you don't.

It is literally a common concept in MMO's - just mislabeled.

Noaani

Aerlana wrote: »

but ... his message feels more like "support was not a thing in MMORPG) which is false, it disappeared (or mostly disappeared) but i have good example in mind...

The OP specifically stated that support was a thing - there were even examples of two games that had support classes.

The first sentence of the post had the request for support classes to return to MMO's.

If that isn't someone saying that support was a thing, but has since disappeared, then I am unsure what would be.

Aerlana

Noaani wrote: »

The OP specifically stated that support was a thing - there were even examples of two games that had support classes.

should have quoted to the post i answered, i didnt answered to op sorry ^^"
I answered to sapi

Diamaht

An example of what I mean is best shown in EQ2. When approaching a large group of mobs in a dungeon, the support would communicate with the group which ones they would lock down

While the tank/dps/healers were doing what they always do the support was stunning/confusing/sleeping/debuffing a number of mobs so that we could deal with them after we finished with our current targets. It kept the battle managable and multiplied what we could handle at once, even beyond what multiple healers could do.

If party members got in trouble, they had a collection of rescue/bubble/stun/slow mechanics to help save and maintain the group.

While current classes in games have an ability here and there that do this, supports had 80 percent of their kits dedicated to it. It creates a totally different, and I think enjoyable, playstyle from the current trinity. Also people always love having you in their group.

Diamaht

Sapiverenus wrote: »

Illusions to distract is slightly more unique though. healing ##s and stat ## changes are not creative.
Sounds like he'll play Tank at release if it's a Control role.

Probably nothing to "return to MMOs" though lol.
Name 3 unique support abilities @Diamaht

I'd scrounge around looking through Dota 2 and even League of Legends to find them.

At work right now, but when I get home I can organize a few examples from past games to better explain what I mean.

grisu

I do hope that at the very least the Cleric has skills that are not just various forms of heal/ dmg variations to choose from with options to make it valuable enough to be comparative to a healer in it's own right.
I would love to build a character in a direction that focuses on empowering/ power shift/ disruption again.

Especially nowadays with all the communication options available I think the choice to play more reactive is a natural advancement in that regard. Hitting that 5 second buff right before your damage dealer drops his nuke. Chefs kiss.

Sapiverenus

@Noaani

here's another for you

Diamaht

Examples:

Everquest 2: Illusionist: Group support that had abilities that could stun, root, stifle, mez, reduce threat, confuse. Had buffs that would raise stats, raise power, grant movement speed, and others. Had utility that would grant things like invisibility, see invisibility, cast illusions, and had minor pets it could summon for damage mitigation.

Warframe: Frames like Trinity, Wisp, Oberon, Protea and others: The mechanics vary with each Frame but they all specialize in enhancing, supplying and shielding the party. As well as managing things like energy regeneration.

Star Wars Galaxies: Squad Leader: Had an arsenal of buffs and enhancements from energy regeneration, crit chance, movement speed, agro management, cooldown time reduction and the list goes on.

Eve Online: Recon ships and Interdictors (over a dozen): These ships had roles that included sensor dampening, target locking and target painting. Along with debuffs that would slow opponents down, disable warping or prevent targeting. Again with these, the list goes on.

None of these were focused on damage or on healing, in fact most didn't have any healing abilities at all and only a couple direct damage abilities.

Thats a small list, but it gives examples of support classes in MMOs. None of them do great damage and none of them are solo friendly. That, I think, is why they faded out. As games became solo friendly, classes such as these, were fazed out due their dependence on group play. With Ashes having 64 class variations, and with mass battles being a real focus, I think it has room to bring this play style back. If 5 or 10 of the 64 are dependent upon a group that would be perfectly fine given all the options.

Strevi

I would like a class which crafts rather than summons it's creatures.

Diamaht wrote: »

...
these merely supplemented their main role of buff/debuff and crowd control. Their main job was to enhance party members and lock down/distract enemies.

Lock down would be cool I guess.
And also "entering" into the creature and seeing through it's eyes. Would be like invisibility.

Child Item