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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
That's what I'm thinking because if bards and priests both were just healers, why bring both?
Not at all, and many games in the past that had support classes didn't require them. I didn't play Ragnatok but games like SWG and EQ had plenty of them and they fit right in without requirement. Remember those were the games that invented the term "holy trinity". It wasnt a quadrinity then and won't be now.
That being said, if a small subset of content was introduced where a support would be essential, I'm all for it. We need wider varieties of content in MMOs.
If there is no CC or Support classes, then how do you get any sense of accomplishment? I mean, just because you stand outside the ring, run around a pillar, shoot off the rotation right and the boss dies, doesn't mean that is where the fun is. For me, the fun was always in the social atmosphere of the game, and that required individuality to a degree, and not by cosmetics stores. You had classes that were relied upon to get going, and to win.
I like support classes that are required in order to make the group/raid happen. Honestly. I don't want the ease of getting home and just grabbing 25 people. Yea, I'm looking for 2 priests to get this raid going and I like that. If we dont get them, the raid is off. Yes. We have enough CC to manage the adds on the entryway of the castle? Good we can proceed. NO!? We'll officers, get to the hub and start calling out, were getting some new members today. (Me in the hub praying for a chance to go raid. "CC looking for raid progression in the HUHIHHJH".... ) Yes. I like this idea. Why?? Because I want to feel the accomplishment when it happens. The dopamine rush will be real, and I won't be oversaturated with it from all the amazing achievements and progress I have done because I mashed a dps button and stood outside the rings.
Im rambling. Thats me. Im new here. tldr: I like support classes and the old social system of needing them in order to progress in a certain style, be it with more ease, with more dps, with better buffs, etc. I liked having support, because the game was hard and we needed it.
Lol I just wrote everything below and forgot to respond to the quote:
I think the sense of accomplishment comes from the group passing whatever encounter, and them knowing that they might have missed every ability because the enemy blinded them and because of your support abilities, they could hit the enemies again. It's soft, but it would be enough for me to continue playing that role. You don't need the game to give you a cookie for using your skills the way they were designed to be used.
In GW1 there were support skills that might remove conditions or hexes, or slow enemies in an area, or skills to interrupt the enemy, strip their buffs, increase the cast time of enemies, provide extra armor to allies, knocking down foes for others to combo from, increasing the cooldown of the next skill an enemy used, increasing projectile speed (in GW1, slow projectiles could miss if you sidestepped), increasing cooldown speeds of allies, increasing the damage of the next skill an ally uses, etc.
There is a TON of design space for support skills. I could see the High Priest having few skills to remove Curses, while the Cultist or Warlock have several powerful skills to do such a thing. I could see the Knight providing physical defenses to the party while the Nightshield would provide defenses from unholy or darkness or whatever the game will call that.
All the things we've described throughout this multipage thread
healing = supporting. and the cleric already has some cc and debuffs
Healing may be supporting, but supporting isn't automatically healing.
As a Bard, I expect to do relatively little healing, and a LOT of buffing. I should have some regen, but no burst heals. I should have status resistance buffs, but not cleansing abilities. My focus will be on helping my party adapt to the challenges they face, amplifying synergies and covering gaps relative to varying content. Healing is my Cleric's job. If I have to spend my time on that, nobody's doing my job. So if you'll excuse me, I'll be busy reducing the need for healing in the first place.
and summoners will probably be debuffing instead
If it makes it into Ashes you'll see that its a very different playstyle from modern bards and clerics.
But as I see things now, and I would absolutely -love- to be wrong. But the classes seem rather uninspired so far. It has all looked fairly standard in terms of combat, and I've not personally seen anything that makes me think the combat system will be a deep one. Over the years, I've become rather pessimistic I'll admit. So I don't take the words of developers as gospel, things change, and usually not for the better.
As things stand, I don't see support classes work in Ashes. But maybe my definition of support is different. So I'll give some examples.
Support, in my view doesn't mean just healing. It is supporting others, individuals by augmenting their attacks with some of your own skills/magic. Or even manipulate the environment. Erecting a wall of earth to create a safe spot from a frontal AoE cone. Things that don't benefit you, or the damage you deal directly, but can nonetheless be handy or even important in groups. It doesn't have to be limited to a specific class combo either. Say I pick a summoner. And I see someone, or even myself about to take a hit from range (fireball, arrow, whatever doesn't matter) and I send my summon, or one of my summons in its path to take the hit and die.
Spells and skills that aren't just damage but foster and allow creativity. Now this last one I have no idea how you would even begin to code that. So I don't expect that. But what I've seen so far (and yes, I know it's Alpha) hasn't been impressive or groundbreaking
They haven't released anything aside from a general idea. You said a number of good ideas, and I'm sure professional game designers might be able to surprise you with a few more before they tease the actual gameplay.
Which is why I prefaced it the way I did. Everything they've shown in this area is rather general, and uninspired. And perhaps the experience in the Alpha 1 and upcoming Alpha 2 is completely different, and I hope it is.. But the general basic combat and combat skills we've seen, don't exactly fill me with confidence in terms of adding a pure support (not healing) type of playstyle.
I'd say that the highest amount of support I'd like to see in any one class would be what was available to the DAoC bard. A lot of supporty stuff rolled into one class with low damage. BUT, I'd also want to see each piece of that support (speed song, regen songs, resist buffs, CC, off-healing) available as one-offs to other classes.
This should be pretty easy to do with 64 options
Also, an example of an over-versatile class would be the DAoC sorc: mana regen, multiple CC's and AE CC's, charm, debuffs, speed chant and mage-level damage
I'd say that's moreso WoW because they went out of their way to simplify combat mechanics. An example of where it wasn't that way was EQ, where you had lots of roles.
You had the tank, healer and DPS. You also had a slower who'd slow down mob's attacking speed, otherwise damage would be too much for the healer. You also had a puller who'd bring the mobs to the group.
The problem with that is you needed too many roles for a functioning group, hence WoW where everything was simplified. Then like you said, it became about 'how good at the Trinity roles are you'.
I like you already!!
Chanter in Aion was pure support and I hope they model Bard after it. Such a great class.
Hopefully combat in Ashes is more nuanced, but that chart would still work here
Shield = Tank
Heal = Healer
Damage = DPS
Control = Support (This one was lost to time as weaker versions of its abilities were farmed out to the other three)
I know some folks are still confused about what we mean by support, so work the idea in reverse.
Take all the CC and Buff abilities from the other classes you know today and put stronger versions of them on a new class that deals very little damage, and doesn't heal. This class has a very difficult time on its own but becomes deadly in a full group. That is a support class.
A simplified example but that's the gist.