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Node policies problem: corruption

Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
edited October 2022 in General Discussion
I found a problem in the node policies, there is no way to change the corruption settings for the node.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_policies

We gotta have:
* no corrrption in any case
* corruption if attacked citizens
* corruption if attacked non-citizens (visitors welcome, free for all pvp for locals only)
* corruption if attacked any

Makes more sense game wise and offers more player customization and content for that node.

I know it goes against the idea of generic spiritual corruption proposed by Steven Sharif, but that is not a problem because if the local population follows a certain deity/protector/creed/belief then that is the path they chose to follow.

Who's with me?
Changes must be done about this and makes sense gamewise being done linked to the node policies.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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Comments

  • I prefer open seas being the only place that's always outside of the corruption system. Giving players control over the system will most likely lead to bad results, which will in turn lead to people leaving and said system changing to keep them.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 2022
    I do not believe it is a good idea to allow individual players (even mayors) to change the core risk/reward balance for the game. I do not believe that node mayors should be allowed to change the game's target audience for specific portions of the map.

    Allowing this will cause rifts in the community as different groups with literally different 'games they want to play' all wish for Ashes to become more like their own personal preference, as well as disenfranchisement when 51% of a node changes the literal type of game that you are playing when you are in that area, even for the 49% remaining.
  • No, thanks - for exactly the reasons @NiKr laid out.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Are you confusing the corruption of the lore with the flagging system corruption?
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nope, same rules worldwide.
  • @NiKr and @CROW3 are right.

    If you don't want to deal with going red (corrupted) in Ashes, the high seas are just for you.
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    * corruption if attacked non-citizens (visitors welcome, free for all pvp for locals only)
    I don't understand this point. Actually none of them is clearly described. Who is the attacker?
    Also, why do you write "if attacked citizens" instead of "if citizens attacked"
    In any case both the subject and predicate are missing which are important for a clear description.
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Who's with me?
    Changes must be done about this and makes sense gamewise being done linked to the node policies.
    From this OP only I could not figure out why you say "Changes must be done"
    But checking your (luckily short) comment history helped a lot to understand your problem.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I found a problem in the node policies, there is no way to change the corruption settings for the node.

    I fail to see how it's a problem.
  • That is not a problem. You're just looking a for a freebie to kill people.

    Consider that corruption in the lore isn't just the government telling people you're bad. It's a literal magical corruption of your soul. Not something a bureaucrat at the village o'er yonder can magically prevent.

    Plus, you already have zones with no corruption PvP (aka the open seas).

    What I had thought of in a thread about Node Policies is maybe a policy which helps in faster cleansing of said corruption. But removing corruption entirely? That's not a good idea.

    It's not a bug, it's a feature.
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • tautau wrote: »
    Nope, same rules worldwide.
    This kills the idea of being having such customizations in the node.

    And world states are less interesting as local states, when we travel to somewhere different it should feel different, look different and have different culture and different rules.

    No to globalization in AoC.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    I prefer open seas being the only place that's always outside of the corruption system. Giving players control over the system will most likely lead to bad results, which will in turn lead to people leaving and said system changing to keep them.

    Player customization is how players fix flaws in game design and player customization leads to player retention. These are facts.

    Also this would allow the free pvppers to have their haven and kingdom of violent murderous player where carebears would be pushed out or pay taxes or be slaves or hire mercenaries.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    No, thanks - for exactly the reasons @NiKr laid out.

    The entire World shouldn't belong to you and be under your views about how a game should be played, players have to be able to come together nd ellect such policy, we are all adults here and if we vote on such policy and don't like then we can vote different on the next turn.

    You people's view on free pvp being evil only leads to opression, the players who behave like drone ants farm the gold endlessly and then they create problems for the community.

    Farming hoarding carebears creates inbalances in the economy and they they become opressors of the newbies, the only way newbies can fight opression is by pvp.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Are you confusing the corruption of the lore with the flagging system corruption?

    I want to go roam the woods and kill all gatheres I see who doesn't belong to my node and I don't want any pvp penalty related to it.

    War is war and free pkilling outsiders from the enemy node is just assymetrical war.

    Gatheres have to be stopped from enlessly farming gold, the node wars gives a second reason on top of this truth.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • @NiKr and @CROW3 are right.

    If you don't want to deal with going red (corrupted) in Ashes, the high seas are just for you.

    That's not very interesting and kills many possible contents in the game.

    If I can't freely kill everybody I see then I won't be able to create extortion rackets, mercenary guilds, assymetrical wars, economical wars and so on.

    Carebearing leads to poor design and that's a fact, the games today are becomming more and more boring because devs are listenning to carebears.

    Carebears have to stop being so greedy and stop thinking as a solo player and they have to start paying up their pvp overlords or pay mercenaries to roam the woods and kill all the pk.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I found a problem in the node policies, there is no way to change the corruption settings for the node.

    I fail to see how it's a problem.

    The problem is that players have no power to decide which path they want to follow in their node.
    Finally I found a developer who wants to implement a policies system and I am missing more options.

    Players have to decide if they want to live in a pk area where player killers and newbies they can fight against their opressors, the carebears are the oprossors who are endlessly farming gold and becomming obnoxious players.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Asgerr wrote: »
    That is not a problem. You're just looking a for a freebie to kill people.

    Consider that corruption in the lore isn't just the government telling people you're bad. It's a literal magical corruption of your soul. Not something a bureaucrat at the village o'er yonder can magically prevent.

    Plus, you already have zones with no corruption PvP (aka the open seas).

    What I had thought of in a thread about Node Policies is maybe a policy which helps in faster cleansing of said corruption. But removing corruption entirely? That's not a good idea.

    It's not a bug, it's a feature.

    Of course I want to freely kill anyone I see, specially people from other node that will be attacked again in a few weeks.

    A policy for cleaning corruption faster sounds nice too.

    Of course a bureaucrat can have leverage on how your soul gets corrupted!
    Change the city deity from the Carebear god to Moloch who demands blood and sacrificies.

    Killing all botters, all script runners, all gold farmers, all afk gatheres is indeed a good deed, that's a good cause and should be encouraged everywhere, the gankers are always the true heroes of any realm, their self-sacrifice should never be punished.

    Because all those it is important that the citizens of that node have the power to choose such game mechanic... if a node is infested with gold farmers then the poppulation can come together and vote for a no corruption policy and the citizens will cleanse the land and force them out.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • @Vaknar !!

    If a node is infested with gold farmers then the poppulation can come together and vote for a no corruption policy and then the citizens will cleanse the land and force the gold farmers out.

    This would also allow the city to choose ganking all non-citizen gatheres when they want to prepare for war against the other node.

    In the end of the day it is war for resources.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Are you confusing the corruption of the lore with the flagging system corruption?

    I want to go roam the woods and kill all gatheres I see who doesn't belong to my node and I don't want any pvp penalty related to it.

    War is war and free pkilling outsiders from the enemy node is just assymetrical war.

    Gatheres have to be stopped from enlessly farming gold, the node wars gives a second reason on top of this truth.

    That's what Node Wars are for. You don't need a policy for that
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited October 2022
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    That's what Node Wars are for. You don't need a policy for that

    Vassal nodes cannot declare a node war on their parent node or any of their vassals.[3]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_wars

    Village (stage 3) or higher nodes enslave nearby nodes, converting them into vassal nodes.[2][3]
    Sovereign nodes collect taxes from their vassal nodes. These taxes cannot be taken by the mayor or other players.[6]
    Vassal nodes give excess experience to their parent node and may have their own vassals; so long as they fall within the parent node’s zone of influence.[6][2]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Vassal_nodes

    @Asgerr you are missing the little details and the big picture too, I am saying that assassins, gankers, pks are required for fighting against opression.

    The carebear opression comes when a bunch of players who behave like drone ants start farming gold non-stop with no fear or shame.

    I am an experienced ganker since the 90s and I know this, gankers are the true liberators when it comes to saving your guild from being stomped by a bunch of gold farmers and hoarders. It will be not different this time in AoC!

    We need tools for freely assassinating everybody else who doesn't belong to our node and then free our people.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    @Vaknar !!

    If a node is infested with gold farmers then the poppulation can come together and vote for a no corruption policy and then the citizens will cleanse the land and force the gold farmers out.

    This would also allow the city to choose ganking all non-citizen gatheres when they want to prepare for war against the other node.

    In the end of the day it is war for resources.

    Hackers, exploiters and bugs are not a reason to change game design or give additional tools to players.
  • Strevi wrote: »
    I don't understand this point

    If you have problems understanding I am happy helping you out of course:

    We gotta have these policies:
    1) no corrurption in any case
    Description: everybody has to die, pvp freedom for all

    2) corruption if attacker kills non-combatant citizen of the node
    Description: a dead citizen of the actual node where the fight happens will trigger the corruption system

    3) corruption if attacker kills non-combatant non-citizens of the node who doesn't fight back
    Description: only killing visitors of the node will trigger the corruption system, killing citizens is fine

    4) corruption as we have today
    Description: today's option where all non-combatant kill will trigger the corruption system
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    Hackers, exploiters and bugs are not a reason to change game design or give additional tools to players.

    That's a wild assuption not based on any facts or news or reviews.

    What we have today on the internet is a flood of complaints against botters, gold farmers, scripters, everywhere we go there's people complaining about this and no company ever could fix this issue.

    No company ever could fix this issue!
    Let the players decide their own pkilling policy in their node and they will handle the problem, this is not only better but this also offers good content for the community.

    Everybody will know that in a certain node no gold farms are safe.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Hackers, exploiters and bugs are not a reason to change game design or give additional tools to players.

    That's a wild assuption not based on any facts or news or reviews.

    What we have today on the internet is a flood of complaints against botters, gold farmers, scripters, everywhere we go there's people complaining about this and no company ever could fix this issue.

    No company ever could fix this issue!
    Let the players decide their own pkilling policy in their node and they will handle the problem, this is not only better but this also offers good content for the community.

    Everybody will know that in a certain node no gold farms are safe.

    Ya you are wacky and your point is weak. Again Hackers, exploiters and bugs are not a reason to change game design or give additional tools to players.

    If you don't think the company will make a active effort to stop things, don't support the game. Simple as that.

    Also don't compare free games to those that have a paid subscription there is incentive to pay gms to deal with those issues.

    You are naïve if you think players care to police, they will simply use that for their own benefit just like the people that cheat. It is a dev's job to work and ensure the good stable state of their game and certainly not your ass to decide who is a free kill.

    You are wacky if you think I'd ever trust a player decide things like this.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited October 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    they will simply use that for their own benefit.

    That's exactly the point, enjoying the game, having a happy place where the carebear scourge can be dealt with!
    Yes people do care about customization, your arguments are the arguments of an oblivious person.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • @Ehrgeiz ,@Dolyem, @hleV, @Dygz, @Dreik

    Since I have seen good posts about pvp from you guys in other threads I am very happy to invite you here and everybody share their wisdom.

    The point of my thread is that we need pro pkilling policies in the node, so we can create a node in any way we can regarding corruption!

    I saw that pks are heroes, cleansing the land from the carebear sourge, carebears and players who behave like drone ants should be dealt with! They all should be murdered and robbed, their nodes should perish and they should be starved out.

    On top of that there's the vassalage system, a weaker node who is also a vassal can't declare war on their masters, so player killing is a tool to fight opression!

    Gankers are the true heroes, they can be freedom fighters in AoC.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    they will simply use that for their own benefit.

    That's exactly the point, enjoying the game, having a happy place where the carebear scourge can be dealt with!
    Yes people do care about customization, your arguments are the arguments of an oblivious person.

    You are wacky. Your idea is garbage. Ill chalk it up to that.

    Ill trust the devs to be doing things right, as their systems are already good on paper based on design intentions.

  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Gankers are the true heroes, they can be freedom fighters in AoC.

    Gankers could be heroes, yes.

    Unfortunately, not all players understand the difference between strategic ganking and griefing.

    And that's why the corruption mechanic exists ... and why it will not be optional in Ashes (except for ocean content).
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Gankers are the true heroes, they can be freedom fighters in AoC.

    Gankers could be heroes, yes.

    Unfortunately, not all players understand the difference between strategic ganking and griefing.

    And that's why the corruption mechanic exists ... and why it will not be optional in Ashes (except for ocean content).

    I agree!
    That's why to me the community of that node should decide when it's fine or not and should customize how they target such liberating force.

    Aslo the node will be fed by carebear xp, that's a flaw in my book!
    The node should be fed also by xp that comes from ganking the other node and doing any pvp activities.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited October 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are wacky. Your idea is garbage. Ill chalk it up to that.

    I can clearly see you are a carebear, because instead of discussing the point you start making personal offensive attacks.

    There's no limits for the carebear toxicity when they see any signs of danger for their endless hoarding, they want to play MMOs as if they were playing Minecraft creative mode in their private server with permanet land claims.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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