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Stealth/Sneaking Question
TheDarkSorcerer
Member
Couldn't find any information about this on Wiki other than Rogue class being able to use it? Will it be a thing?
In ESO, anyone or any class can go in stealth while in PvP/PvE areas to not get spotted by enemies (Once caught/engaged in a combat you can't go back into sneaking for X seconds)
To me, It adds immersion to be able to hide from an enemy, spy on enemies, hide from enemies trying to catch you, or to simply not get caught killing/stealing etc.
In ESO, anyone or any class can go in stealth while in PvP/PvE areas to not get spotted by enemies (Once caught/engaged in a combat you can't go back into sneaking for X seconds)
To me, It adds immersion to be able to hide from an enemy, spy on enemies, hide from enemies trying to catch you, or to simply not get caught killing/stealing etc.
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Because I want to make alts and it feels better for me if there is a big difference between them.
The more more unique and special each class is, the better.
Well, i'm not asking for a skill though. You stealth when you crouch automatically in ESO. In ESO Nightblades are the Rogues and they have longer stealths than normal classes with a lot more advantages to get in and out of combat.
In my opinion, being able to be seen at all times is immersion breaking. You should be able to hide if needed using any class.
Rogues - should be able to look like the predator but if they spec into it can go full invisible. In predator mode it would take 2 - 3 seconds to stealth. If they spec into it, 1 - 1.5 seconds. As a rogue they should be able to move while in stealth and be the typical idea of a rogue.
Rogue sub type - Need to spec into it. Would acquire a lesser version of the predator stealth. Would take 3 - 5 seconds to change. Somewhat dependent on what they are next to.
Rangers - They can acquire general color patterns, nothing too detailed, of things they are next to. Something similar to an octopus. It would take 4 - 6 seconds to stealth and can move at will but being next to something gives better results. If they spec into it they could look like the predator. Would take 3 - 4 seconds to stealth. They can move while in stealth and lay traps. Not dependent on being close to anything.
Ranger sub type - Need to spec into it. Would get a lesser version of the "octopus" stealth but take 6 - 8 seconds to change. They can move but getting too far from bushes, trees or whatever would cause the camouflage to not have anything to mimic.
All other classes and ranger/rogue sub types not spec'd into camo - These people can camouflage in certain areas. Say in a jungle or forest they would use vegetation, bushes, leaves, moss and whatever is there. Depending on how they look or where they stand they could be hard to detect. If they are in a desert standing on sand with no vegetation around then they don't camouflage, nothing to use. They can move while camouflaged but too much or too fast movement causes the camouflage to start falling off. 10 seconds to camo up, 8 seconds if they spec into it plus a better camo job.
Immersion breaking? Last I knew you could see solid objects in the world, albeit a magical spell as the exception. I honestly think it's immersion breaking to think people can stand directly in front of you and not see them.
Camouflage for hunters is also a nice addition. Hunters should be laying traps and making ambushes so they can hit from afar. Being a range character I can see camo being their utility as they're mostly attuned to nature and you probably won't be too close to them at the beginning of a fight anyway.
"There will also be utility skills that will reveal stealthed players, such as on the Ranger archetype.[4][5][6]"
However, to my knowledge based on the wiki, we won't have full stealth which is ok aswell. I spent alot on my time in cyrodill within eso as a nightblade. You had to b mindful of those who you attacked since there were many ways to reveal a stealthed individual like:
*detection potion
*caltrops
*Ability called evil hunter
*Ability called magelight
*etc
All classes had some way to deal with it and if you weren't someone built for stealth then chances are you'd be spotted by someone just casually riding pass you on the rode.
Having full stealth also helped you to not just get ganked by a group of players passing through the zone as long as you stealthed up quick enough. Aside note, it'd definitely help rogues out alot in order to disengage when a fight looks hairy. If there is a permanent shimmer or something wherever the player is, I don't think it'll b hard to stay on then if your on action camera, and if being hit while stealthed rips you from stealth then use large aoe in that area and now they are unstealthed and probably dead if they are going the traditional route and making rogue squishy and burst damage heavy.
All in all, I don't think it would be an issue to have in game but if it isn't, you wouldn't hear any complaints from me.
Ranger's camouflage should work to make the Ranger basically invisible/looking like a rock or tree, or bush, but immediately breaks if they move or attack.
No one said you should be able to go into stealth or be invisible while standing next to your enemy though...
There should be a detection range. "If you're X ft close to your enemy you'll be spotted."
Cyrodiil has been my home for YEARS. As a mag sorc that is currently the weakest class in the game, sometimes i end up being chased by zergs. And if my mag runs out, I need to hide. So i try to get away as far as possible and then go into stealth and hide behind some rock.
Maan I use to live fighting mages 1v1 before I stopped playing years ago. It was some of the most stimulating pvp iv had. Hopefully I can recreate a bit of that feeling in ashes.
There's another game called Predator based on the movie. The only time it's invisibility was effective was at range and not moving. Once the Predator moved seeing it and landing shots was not difficult at all. Up close, even when not moving, the Predator was quickly spotted and downed.
AoC wants to use the predator look instead of full invisibility? That's a lot of dead rogues. Players will see the rogue, do an aoe, or free fire, attack to pop the stealth and down goes hollywood.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Usually I jump between playing healers like druids and archmages, rogue types or bards. If there's a combination that heals and has stealth I'll be all over it.
ESO nightblade as a healer was fun, hopefully AoC has something similar.
We just won't know until we experience it. Then we can provide feedback.
Hopefully soon!
Right??
At least in DAoC, it's relegated to specific classes, but in ESO, you just never ever know where people are or how many people are around. Since every single player can do it effectively, you end up with large groups that could be standing right in front of you that are all stealthed. It makes engaging in fights annoying because no amount of awareness of your surroundings can prevent you from getting jumped on by people who happened to be right next to you the whole time. Beyond that, people use stealth to sit inside keeps forever after their faction has lost those keeps. Kill someone inside, go back into stealth, wait for people to give up looking for you, kill someone else inside, etc. That sort of thing is pretty annoying, IMO.
My preference would be for stealth to be limited classes having some short term invisibility and/or using the actual terrain for stealth. For this latter point, I think New World does it really well, actually. In New World, if you crouch or lay down in overgrowth, other players can't see you. This makes far more since than ESO's "crouching makes everyone invisible no matter the terrain" stuff, and it yields far more interesting gameplay.
In my soon to be 9 years of ESO PvP I have never seen large groups/zerg balls stealthing up together.
Stealth is mainly an advantage for solo PvP'ers and Nightblades to either gank or to hide
Nah, I did it a bunch of times for fun. Group of 20 in stealth and we jumped out at the same time attacking a group coming around the corner.
It was fun as heck, but they have a good point.
I don't know what the middle ground is. Maybe like Age of Conan where everyone can stealth, but moving while stealthed consumes resources? I don't know. It's a nice feature for everyone to have, you can hide while going to the washroom. Stealth itself is defensive, it's only offensive when you combine it with movement.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Stealth
You won't be completely invisible, there will be ways for players to "feel out" where a stealthed character is. Some abilities will reveal stealthed enemies, Rangers will get one.
If you take Rogue as a secondary class, you can incorporate augments into your abilities to grant you stealth.
Rangers get camouflage rather than stealth.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Camouflage
The difference is that when you get close to a Ranger, they are revealed. A Rogue stays concealed when close. That fits with the role of a Rogue sneaking up into melee, and a Ranger sniping from a distant hidden location.
I think a Ranger/Rogue (Scout) would make for a very interesting stealth-heavy ranged character.
I believe that might be a bit of an irregularity then. In my time playing nightblade I never experienced that, nor did any of my guildmates. However if 20 nightblades are lying in wait then hey that's part of the game. I'd just let my campaigns zerg know and keep it pushing. On top of that I don't believe something like that would occur in ashes since you aren't incentivized to jump greens and if your a combatant then you've already agreed to pvp.
"Stealth is 100% an option in the game. It's not going to render yourself or the individual who uses the stealth completely obscured. You're still going to be able to identify- there's going to be utility skills that can reveal stealth from a PvP perspective. There's going to be perceptions that certain NPCs have that can see through stealth, like Tremor Sense or Life Sense. There are elements of mechanics that relate to stealth and how it is balanced in the game. It's not going to be similar to stealth that's been found in other games where the target is rendered completely invisible- they can make it past every enemy NPC or monster: they can use stealth at all times. These are elements that is a tit for tat. These are components of class-kits that are going to have corresponding counters as it relates to other classes as well.[4]" – Steven Sharif
"Stealth does not render a player completely invisible.[1]
There will be indicators that can help players "feel out" where stealthed individuals may be.[3]"
"True stealth resides within the realm of the Rogue (primary) archetype.[6]
There will be counter-stealth mechanics for sure. That's just a natural balancing act of stealth. But additionally with regards to you know secondary classes, one of those aspects is augments represent the secondary class and some of the- one of the most fundamental aspects of a rogue is stealth whether it be actual invisibility or the ability to sneak around in the shadows or something. So you can almost certainly count on the fact that should you go a secondary class of rogue that there will be the ability to influence your action items from your primary class with the stealth modifier.[7]" – Steven Sharif
Having a hard time finding everything about this class and looking at what was quoted in the wiki leads me to a different perspective based on his word choice and phrasing. This could be pointing to rogues actually having the ability to be 100% transparent.
If you are looking out a glass window to a static environment, say a city street, with no flexible objects, only cars, poles, solid buildings, concrete, etc, could you tell if the wind was blowing? If you add in trees, trash, dust and people, you would know the wind is blowing, but you can't see it.
I think this may be what he is getting at. A rogue passing to close to a tree could scuff it, walking through a bush would cause it to move, only footsteps where the rogue is currently standing would be visible, noise from any of that, or the sound of jumping off something and impacting the ground, would also be an indicator. The "completely obscure" comment would align with this and put everything else into a perspective that would make sense.
I agree. I just like theory crafting and the mental dissection that goes with it. Quite often I get results different than most popular trends and have better results. But like you said, anything can change.
I dont I have the time to find the exact one but the most recent mention I remember was an answer to a q and a section of one of thr monthly streams(I think in 2022). The predator thing I think is a super old proposed concept video that people keep referring to and thinking is set in stone. I might be wrong on that part