UNLESS working off single PK corruption isn't very time consuming or a pain in the ass, the way it's designed right now means nobody's gonna PK because the reward is not worth the risk. PvEers won't look over their shoulder, because they essentially have a PvP off flag since nobody's gonna kill them if they don't fight back.
So, good for PvEers I guess. PvPers are left with whatever artificial PvP game modes the game gives us.
UNLESS working off single PK corruption isn't very time consuming or a pain in the ass, the way it's designed right now means nobody's gonna PK because the reward is not worth the risk. PvEers won't look over their shoulder, because they essentially have a PvP off flag since nobody's gonna kill them if they don't fight back.
So, good for PvEers I guess. PvPers are left with whatever artificial PvP game modes the game gives us.
True.
It seems that corruption punishes the PK when it should simply punish the "Free" KP. It seems that in AOC the two terms are synonymous.
Yet there is a big difference between defending your XP area, resources area or your boss and loop killing one shot a noob for no reason.
Again, we can just wit and see in reality how it will be.
PvEers won't look over their shoulder, because they essentially have a PvP off flag since nobody's gonna kill them if they don't fight back.
There is an inherent problem with this thought.
Intrepid are setting up an entire progression path based on hunting people that have gained corruption. As such, they are obliged to ensure some people are gaining corruption. The game will essentially be broken if this is not the case.
Since the only real reason to fight someone in a situation where corruption could be gained is in relation to trying to take over a "spot" (everything else has it's own thing), it is then on Intrepid to make sure the punishment for gaining corruption is in line with having control of a given spot.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
Not really. All that it takes is proper balancing of corruption gained per kill related to the current PK count. The first 5-10 kills might be cleanseable within just a few minutes so most people would be fine PKing a bit here and there, while BHs that are near can still catch them if they're quick.
Kills over 10 PK ticks should take 5-10 minutes to cleanse and now pretty much any BH will hunt you down, unless you're in a group which is ready to go Red for you too.
Make the counter clearing quest just hard enough to not be doable every day, but easy enough so that people do in fact use it to clear their PK counters.
On top of that, proper respawn points in relation to different locations should help as well. If a dude dies in a dungeon that's 2 minutes of straight running deep - he should respawn ~1 minutes away from the dungeon, and the mobs at the bottom of the dungeon should remove corruption by such an amount that a PKer on his first tick would have to farm them for 4 minutes at peak farming speed to remove his corruption.
This way the victim has a chance to take their revenge, while everyone in the dungeon could also just go and catch the Red, if the victim shouted in chat "Red in room such and such!"
And this kind of balancing will have to be perfected during alpha2, but I believe that Intrepid can do it and keep the balance within the system w/o increasing or decreasing the punishment itself.
Maybe this system is not so complicated. But as long as there are grey areas about how it works, it seems difficult to say.
The grey areas which you mention, which are indeed still surrounded by questions, are easy to fix/solve, in my opinion. However, regardless of how good or bad a system is in theory, it needs to be thoroughly tested to have the grey areas removed.
Of course it must be tested. But already on the paper I see many wrong things.
I already imagine some green players following you, stealing your ressources/mobs till you get mad and attack them and get corruption.
This system gonna be so vicious and full of exploit.
The system is fine. It's been working on L2 mmo since 2003.
People had their way to deal with pests. Before you make suggestions you should read more and gain an up to date understanding.
The Corruption will work precisely for the reason that will frustrate many people.
Only last hit gets corrupted.
So Designated Reds are there to get a benefit for OTHER people in their group while 'absorbing the punishment' for that whole group. Therefore Bounty Hunters are a thing. PK penalties can be QUITE high before the Designated Red has a reason to care, as long as allies are getting the advantages of them being Red.
If my Designated Red kills someone and I loot the body, I'm not even Purple by the time anyone shows up to do anything about it.
The Corruption will work precisely for the reason that will frustrate many people.
Only last hit gets corrupted.
So Designated Reds are there to get a benefit for OTHER people in their group while 'absorbing the punishment' for that whole group. Therefore Bounty Hunters are a thing. PK penalties can be QUITE high before the Designated Red has a reason to care, as long as allies are getting the advantages of them being Red.
If my Designated Red kills someone and I loot the body, I'm not even Purple by the time anyone shows up to do anything about it.
As we've discussed before, I think your group will be an outlier. You said that your group would be completely fine with going full red if the situation required that, while I'm not sure how many people would do the same.
And depending on how notorious your group (or any other potentially PKing group is), there's a chance that BHs would have their own groups to try and stop you and reap the rewards. And considering that everyone can attack the red w/o flagging up, your party would have to then go red against the attackers of your designated red.
The Corruption will work precisely for the reason that will frustrate many people.
Only last hit gets corrupted.
So Designated Reds are there to get a benefit for OTHER people in their group while 'absorbing the punishment' for that whole group. Therefore Bounty Hunters are a thing. PK penalties can be QUITE high before the Designated Red has a reason to care, as long as allies are getting the advantages of them being Red.
If my Designated Red kills someone and I loot the body, I'm not even Purple by the time anyone shows up to do anything about it.
As we've discussed before, I think your group will be an outlier. You said that your group would be completely fine with going full red if the situation required that, while I'm not sure how many people would do the same.
And depending on how notorious your group (or any other potentially PKing group is), there's a chance that BHs would have their own groups to try and stop you and reap the rewards. And considering that everyone can attack the red w/o flagging up, your party would have to then go red against the attackers of your designated red.
Not really, the point would be to let the Designated Red just die.
That's their role for the day. And then you just rotate who has that role for the day.
I agree that we might be outliers in the sense of "I will just PK because fighting is the only purpose and progression is a distant second", but it's not a VERY hard structure to use.
Oh yeah? Let them die? And where will you find gear to replace their loses?
Hard earned gear
No one cares about this.
I remind you again that we come from games where the ONLY progression POSSIBLE is personal skill.
I'm sure that it will be a deterrent for some others.
But the entire way that this works, by definition, is that the other person isn't fighting back, so you don't need very good gear (relatively) to kill them anyway.
Not really, the point would be to let the Designated Red just die.
That's their role for the day. And then you just rotate who has that role for the day.
I agree that we might be outliers in the sense of "I will just PK because fighting is the only purpose and progression is a distant second", but it's not a VERY hard structure to use.
Ah, then iirc this a different stance than what you had when we last talked about it. Though maybe I'm just misremembering that discussion.
But considering this, a lot will depend on how hard/expensive the PK count removal quest is. I'd assume most people wouldn't want to waste time and resources on clearing their whole party's worth of PK counters just because they were rotating their designated killer for a week.
The quest design would also have to be balanced in such a way that a party couldn't just bankroll their one PKer and do the quest in minutes instead of hours. Well, that is if Intrepid want to prevent that kind of workaround.
Ahh, there's so much stuff we gotta test and give feedback on. I can't wait till alpha2
Not really, the point would be to let the Designated Red just die.
That's their role for the day. And then you just rotate who has that role for the day.
I agree that we might be outliers in the sense of "I will just PK because fighting is the only purpose and progression is a distant second", but it's not a VERY hard structure to use.
Ah, then iirc this a different stance than what you had when we last talked about it. Though maybe I'm just misremembering that discussion.
But considering this, a lot will depend on how hard/expensive the PK count removal quest is. I'd assume most people wouldn't want to waste time and resources on clearing their whole party's worth of PK counters just because they were rotating their designated killer for a week.
The quest design would also have to be balanced in such a way that a party couldn't just bankroll their one PKer and do the quest in minutes instead of hours. Well, that is if Intrepid want to prevent that kind of workaround.
Ahh, there's so much stuff we gotta test and give feedback on. I can't wait till alpha2
To clarify.
I didn't mean that WE wouldn't still all go Red.
I'm saying that a less 'hardcore' group might choose to just let them die. The structure remains usable.
I'd love to 'debate' it, but I am, as noted, about to go spend 2 hours playing a game with no non-skill personal progression, so...
Oh yeah? Let them die? And where will you find gear to replace their loses?
Hard earned gear
No one cares about this.
I remind you again that we come from games where the ONLY progression POSSIBLE is personal skill.
I'm sure that it will be a deterrent for some others.
But the entire way that this works, by definition, is that the other person isn't fighting back, so you don't need very good gear (relatively) to kill them anyway.
There is no 'hard earned' in this situation.
At this game crafting items will play a huge role. It wont be ez and will require effort and cooperation. At this game gear will be a significant power contributor.
Your flexing is both imaginary and also irrelevant to the facts of PKing in AoC.
Pointless, as usual from you.
At this game crafting items will play a huge role. It wont be ez and will require effort and cooperation. At this game gear will be a significant power contributor.
Your flexing is both imaginary and also irrelevant to the facts of PKing in AoC.
Pointless, as usual from you.
There’s a pretty obvious approach around this issue I imagine @Azherae’s team will take, particularly since their team chooses the red for the day.
But your zeal to zing someone beat your logic to the line again.
At this game crafting items will play a huge role. It wont be ez and will require effort and cooperation. At this game gear will be a significant power contributor.
Your flexing is both imaginary and also irrelevant to the facts of PKing in AoC.
Pointless, as usual from you.
But your zeal to zing someone beat your logic to the line again.
At least my logic and tone remain on the track of the topic.
Feel free to run in the opposite direction of the context/topic/facts with azhraes irrelevant comparisons and stretched scenarios.
Not everybody has to like everyone in this life. That's personal choice. Everybody should understand that 1+1 will always be 2. No two ways about it.
Not everybody has to like everyone in this life. That's personal choice. Everybody should understand that 1+1 will always be 2. No two ways about it.
🤷♂️
I guess it's not clear to you that PKing wont be as a simple matter as depicted by you and azhrae.
Feel free to give emphasis on the imaginary scenario which highlights skill.
Feel free to ignore the importance of crafting and losing gear and whether this importance is suffient as a penalty for PKing (on the titled topic).
Your bias is as clear as my dislike of certain posters and their views, their fluff and misdirection, intentional or not.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
I dont quite follow.
Corruption needs to be a thing that happens. People should be going in to Ashes understanding this. If someone then leaves the game due to corruption happening (whether they were attacked and killed, or they gained the corruption), then that person probably shouldn't have been playing Ashes to start with.
Not everybody has to like everyone in this life. That's personal choice. Everybody should understand that 1+1 will always be 2. No two ways about it.
🤷♂️
I guess it's not clear to you that PKing wont be as a simple matter as depicted by you and azhrae.
Feel free to give emphasis on the imaginary scenario which highlights skill.
Feel free to ignore the importance of crafting and losing gear and whether this importance is suffient as a penalty for PKing (on the titled topic).
Your bias is as clear as my dislike of certain posters and their views, their fluff and misdirection, intentional or not.
Bwhaha! You always lighten my day, man. 🤣
The red player isn’t going to be wearing their Sunday best. It will be crap gear so there’s no attachment to its loss. In the meantime, that player will soak the corruption, while her team divvies up the green spoils.
It speaks directly to the corruption punishment, while pointing out the ‘only the person who gets the kill turns red’ loophole that a number of us are waiting not-so-patiently to test.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
I dont quite follow.
Corruption needs to be a thing that happens. People should be going in to Ashes understanding this. If someone then leaves the game due to corruption happening (whether they were attacked and killed, or they gained the corruption), then that person probably shouldn't have been playing Ashes to start with.
Do not forget that the majority of players of AOC has probably never visited this forum or read the Wiki. Future players are randoms guys MMO lovers who will learn the rules directly while playing.
Maybe this system is not so complicated. But as long as there are grey areas about how it works, it seems difficult to say.
The grey areas which you mention, which are indeed still surrounded by questions, are easy to fix/solve, in my opinion. However, regardless of how good or bad a system is in theory, it needs to be thoroughly tested to have the grey areas removed.
Of course it must be tested. But already on the paper I see many wrong things.
I already imagine some green players following you, stealing your ressources/mobs till you get mad and attack them and get corruption.
This system gonna be so vicious and full of exploit.
The system is fine. It's been working on L2 mmo since 2003.
People had their way to deal with pests. Before you make suggestions you should read more and gain an up to date understanding.
If you are talking about Lineage 2 you should know that wild PvP was almost non-existent in Lineage 2. Precisely because there were no advantages to PK (only disadvantages).
At a certain point, the characters in L2 were abandoned (or deleted) because they were considered ruined because of this system (too long to take away corruption, full loot after you die, no more reason to play the game).
Your comparison with Lineage 2 is a good example of what not to do again. "Hardcore full loot MMOs" have shown their limitations with their toxicity and low player base. However, this does not make Lineage 2 a good example of "Open World PvP" alternative.
If you are talking about Lineage 2 you should know that wild PvP was almost non-existent in Lineage 2. Precisely because there were no advantages to PK (only disadvantages).
At a certain point, the characters in L2 were abandoned (or deleted) because they were considered ruined because of this system (too long to take away corruption, full loot after you die, no more reason to play the game).
Was this in C1-2? Cause I've been following the game since around C3 and pretty much anywhere I've played or seen people play - a ton of people were not only pvping but PKing too.
Which is exactly why all we have to do is figure out the balance of certain values instead of removing systems or completely changing them.
Maybe this system is not so complicated. But as long as there are grey areas about how it works, it seems difficult to say.
The grey areas which you mention, which are indeed still surrounded by questions, are easy to fix/solve, in my opinion. However, regardless of how good or bad a system is in theory, it needs to be thoroughly tested to have the grey areas removed.
Of course it must be tested. But already on the paper I see many wrong things.
I already imagine some green players following you, stealing your ressources/mobs till you get mad and attack them and get corruption.
This system gonna be so vicious and full of exploit.
The system is fine. It's been working on L2 mmo since 2003.
People had their way to deal with pests. Before you make suggestions you should read more and gain an up to date understanding.
If you are talking about Lineage 2 you should know that wild PvP was almost non-existent in Lineage 2. Precisely because there were no advantages to PK (only disadvantages).
At a certain point, the characters in L2 were abandoned (or deleted) because they were considered ruined because of this system (too long to take away corruption, full loot after you die, no more reason to play the game).
Your comparison with Lineage 2 is a good example of what not to do again. "Hardcore full loot MMOs" have shown their limitations with their toxicity and low player base. However, this does not make Lineage 2 a good example of "Open World PvP" alternative.
L2 isnt the example of what not to do.
L2 is one of the fundamental bases for AoC.
As for the "lack of wild pvp", that's a lie.
What do you mean "no advantages to pk"?
The advantage was revenge, control of area (definately not with crap gear, as some suggest. With crap gear people will turn around and 1shoot you, let alone you "going red on them, with your highly skilled red group".)
The advantages dont have to be mechanics or system rewards. It's the free agency of humans to interact with each other.
PvP was wild in L2. PK had its place for those organized, skilled, commited, wealthy to go red and keep enemies at bay.
There were randoms that went red on some noobs. There were carebears that moaned. The game was perfect, and would still be with only modern graphics.
Survival games, toxicity? Wakanda irrelevance is this now, thrown in the mix?
How can you link full loot games, with the system of corruption penalties?
What superficial connection is this?
You are uninformed or your claim to have played L2 is a lie. Either way, the forums flood after each stream and Ill take my leave again until things get interesting.
Cant wait for A2 and the A2 section on the forums. For more interesting discussions than these repetitive cyrcles.
The forums flood after each stream and Ill take my leave again until things get interesting.
Cant wait for A2 and the A2 section on the forums. For more interesting discussions than these repetitive cyrcles.
You mean "You don't think like me so I'm leaving".
In reality, there are just the old hands that have been on this forum for years. And new people who are starting to get interested in the game.
But in the end there will be only one player base, so be less dismissive.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
I dont quite follow.
Corruption needs to be a thing that happens. People should be going in to Ashes understanding this. If someone then leaves the game due to corruption happening (whether they were attacked and killed, or they gained the corruption), then that person probably shouldn't have been playing Ashes to start with.
Do not forget that the majority of players of AOC has probably never visited this forum or read the Wiki. Future players are randoms guys MMO lovers who will learn the rules directly while playing.
Are you saying Intrepid should change the game because future potential players may join the game not knowing what it is?
Because that is the only logical reason you could have to this line of thought.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
I dont quite follow.
Corruption needs to be a thing that happens. People should be going in to Ashes understanding this. If someone then leaves the game due to corruption happening (whether they were attacked and killed, or they gained the corruption), then that person probably shouldn't have been playing Ashes to start with.
Do not forget that the majority of players of AOC has probably never visited this forum or read the Wiki. Future players are randoms guys MMO lovers who will learn the rules directly while playing.
Are you saying Intrepid should change the game because future potential players may join the game not knowing what it is?
Because that is the only logical reason you could have to this line of thought.
I am not in a position to point out what Intrepid should or should not do.
However, Intrepid often reminds us that "everything is subject to change". So this is simply a reminder that the majority of the AOC future player base is not yet speaking.
On this forum, there are many people who are for the most part, convinced of the excellence of the rules of the game. But in the end, we will have to satisfy a larger number of players.
The challenge is to make a great MMO, well thought out with a solid player base. Tthat's it.
From my understanding (Could be wrong we dont realy know a whole lot about the system yet on how it precisly works just generally how it works)
The corruption system is there to punish excess killing of green players, however killing occasional green players will be fine you get bit of corruption however a bit of corruption wont give to much disadvantages like dropping gear however if you keep killing greens this penelaty will get harsher but if you manage you corruption i dont think it will effect you to much, just means you can go on a mindless killing spree or you screw yourself but a green kill every now and then i think will be fine they just wanna manage mindless killing/griefing (killing players much lower then your level i beleive will be higher corruption penalty).
There also be many aspect where you can kill without the penalty aka if they hit you back they wont give your a penalty but as a reward they loose less on death, attacking/defenidng caravans wont corrupt you or participating in wars wont either along with open ocean pvp and some limited area on the map like around destroyed nodes and so on.
The main goal of corruption is to prevent griefing/mindlessly killing or just butchering noobs not to neccesarily stop pvp from happening otherwise they have a pvp flag system
This is the system we realy need to see in game before we can speculate on it since alot of it comes down to is corruption value's and things before certain penalty get applied and how much corruption value u get for x actions. if you can kill say 5 different people in an hour or 2 that is your level without any penalty like gear drop then it should be relatively fine. im hoping the penlaty for killing player around ur level is relativly low however killing somone 20 levels below you is huge thats a good thing for the game, griefing noobs is the quickest way to kill a game
Comments
So, good for PvEers I guess. PvPers are left with whatever artificial PvP game modes the game gives us.
True.
It seems that corruption punishes the PK when it should simply punish the "Free" KP. It seems that in AOC the two terms are synonymous.
Yet there is a big difference between defending your XP area, resources area or your boss and loop killing one shot a noob for no reason.
Again, we can just wit and see in reality how it will be.
Intrepid are setting up an entire progression path based on hunting people that have gained corruption. As such, they are obliged to ensure some people are gaining corruption. The game will essentially be broken if this is not the case.
Since the only real reason to fight someone in a situation where corruption could be gained is in relation to trying to take over a "spot" (everything else has it's own thing), it is then on Intrepid to make sure the punishment for gaining corruption is in line with having control of a given spot.
To me, if someone is out following me, taking my kills and/or resources, I'll simply lure them to a place that is out away from a road or such, make sure we are alone, and kill them there. Since I am in an area where I can gain experience, I can potentially work off that corruption before that player is able tonrespawn and get back - and in the mean time I just took a big chunk of the work they had just put in.
If the corruption is that important in the game we have a potential situation:
Almost no one gonna be corrupted. Intrepid will reduce the punishments for corrupted - PVE players will complain and threat to leave the game - the system will be changed - no one will be satisfied - we could get a problem with player base.
Kind of New World scenario. So I hope feedbacks of Alpha/Beta will attract attention to avoid such issues.
Kills over 10 PK ticks should take 5-10 minutes to cleanse and now pretty much any BH will hunt you down, unless you're in a group which is ready to go Red for you too.
Make the counter clearing quest just hard enough to not be doable every day, but easy enough so that people do in fact use it to clear their PK counters.
On top of that, proper respawn points in relation to different locations should help as well. If a dude dies in a dungeon that's 2 minutes of straight running deep - he should respawn ~1 minutes away from the dungeon, and the mobs at the bottom of the dungeon should remove corruption by such an amount that a PKer on his first tick would have to farm them for 4 minutes at peak farming speed to remove his corruption.
This way the victim has a chance to take their revenge, while everyone in the dungeon could also just go and catch the Red, if the victim shouted in chat "Red in room such and such!"
And this kind of balancing will have to be perfected during alpha2, but I believe that Intrepid can do it and keep the balance within the system w/o increasing or decreasing the punishment itself.
The system is fine. It's been working on L2 mmo since 2003.
People had their way to deal with pests. Before you make suggestions you should read more and gain an up to date understanding.
Only last hit gets corrupted.
So Designated Reds are there to get a benefit for OTHER people in their group while 'absorbing the punishment' for that whole group. Therefore Bounty Hunters are a thing. PK penalties can be QUITE high before the Designated Red has a reason to care, as long as allies are getting the advantages of them being Red.
If my Designated Red kills someone and I loot the body, I'm not even Purple by the time anyone shows up to do anything about it.
And depending on how notorious your group (or any other potentially PKing group is), there's a chance that BHs would have their own groups to try and stop you and reap the rewards. And considering that everyone can attack the red w/o flagging up, your party would have to then go red against the attackers of your designated red.
Not really, the point would be to let the Designated Red just die.
That's their role for the day. And then you just rotate who has that role for the day.
I agree that we might be outliers in the sense of "I will just PK because fighting is the only purpose and progression is a distant second", but it's not a VERY hard structure to use.
Hard earned gear
No one cares about this.
I remind you again that we come from games where the ONLY progression POSSIBLE is personal skill.
I'm sure that it will be a deterrent for some others.
But the entire way that this works, by definition, is that the other person isn't fighting back, so you don't need very good gear (relatively) to kill them anyway.
There is no 'hard earned' in this situation.
But considering this, a lot will depend on how hard/expensive the PK count removal quest is. I'd assume most people wouldn't want to waste time and resources on clearing their whole party's worth of PK counters just because they were rotating their designated killer for a week.
The quest design would also have to be balanced in such a way that a party couldn't just bankroll their one PKer and do the quest in minutes instead of hours. Well, that is if Intrepid want to prevent that kind of workaround.
Ahh, there's so much stuff we gotta test and give feedback on. I can't wait till alpha2
To clarify.
I didn't mean that WE wouldn't still all go Red.
I'm saying that a less 'hardcore' group might choose to just let them die. The structure remains usable.
I'd love to 'debate' it, but I am, as noted, about to go spend 2 hours playing a game with no non-skill personal progression, so...
At this game crafting items will play a huge role. It wont be ez and will require effort and cooperation. At this game gear will be a significant power contributor.
Your flexing is both imaginary and also irrelevant to the facts of PKing in AoC.
Pointless, as usual from you.
There’s a pretty obvious approach around this issue I imagine @Azherae’s team will take, particularly since their team chooses the red for the day.
But your zeal to zing someone beat your logic to the line again.
Murder is penalized
Mutual combat is not.
That's what corruption is about, pretty simple.
At least my logic and tone remain on the track of the topic.
Feel free to run in the opposite direction of the context/topic/facts with azhraes irrelevant comparisons and stretched scenarios.
Not everybody has to like everyone in this life. That's personal choice. Everybody should understand that 1+1 will always be 2. No two ways about it.
Unlike this little diatribe:
🤷♂️
wait azherae is a gurl? O_o
btw personal skill will lose to f1 tactics in this game if you are gearless
I guess it's not clear to you that PKing wont be as a simple matter as depicted by you and azhrae.
Feel free to give emphasis on the imaginary scenario which highlights skill.
Feel free to ignore the importance of crafting and losing gear and whether this importance is suffient as a penalty for PKing (on the titled topic).
Your bias is as clear as my dislike of certain posters and their views, their fluff and misdirection, intentional or not.
I dont quite follow.
Corruption needs to be a thing that happens. People should be going in to Ashes understanding this. If someone then leaves the game due to corruption happening (whether they were attacked and killed, or they gained the corruption), then that person probably shouldn't have been playing Ashes to start with.
Bwhaha! You always lighten my day, man. 🤣
The red player isn’t going to be wearing their Sunday best. It will be crap gear so there’s no attachment to its loss. In the meantime, that player will soak the corruption, while her team divvies up the green spoils.
It speaks directly to the corruption punishment, while pointing out the ‘only the person who gets the kill turns red’ loophole that a number of us are waiting not-so-patiently to test.
Do not forget that the majority of players of AOC has probably never visited this forum or read the Wiki. Future players are randoms guys MMO lovers who will learn the rules directly while playing.
If you are talking about Lineage 2 you should know that wild PvP was almost non-existent in Lineage 2. Precisely because there were no advantages to PK (only disadvantages).
At a certain point, the characters in L2 were abandoned (or deleted) because they were considered ruined because of this system (too long to take away corruption, full loot after you die, no more reason to play the game).
Your comparison with Lineage 2 is a good example of what not to do again. "Hardcore full loot MMOs" have shown their limitations with their toxicity and low player base. However, this does not make Lineage 2 a good example of "Open World PvP" alternative.
Which is exactly why all we have to do is figure out the balance of certain values instead of removing systems or completely changing them.
L2 isnt the example of what not to do.
L2 is one of the fundamental bases for AoC.
As for the "lack of wild pvp", that's a lie.
What do you mean "no advantages to pk"?
The advantage was revenge, control of area (definately not with crap gear, as some suggest. With crap gear people will turn around and 1shoot you, let alone you "going red on them, with your highly skilled red group".)
The advantages dont have to be mechanics or system rewards. It's the free agency of humans to interact with each other.
PvP was wild in L2. PK had its place for those organized, skilled, commited, wealthy to go red and keep enemies at bay.
There were randoms that went red on some noobs. There were carebears that moaned. The game was perfect, and would still be with only modern graphics.
Survival games, toxicity? Wakanda irrelevance is this now, thrown in the mix?
How can you link full loot games, with the system of corruption penalties?
What superficial connection is this?
You are uninformed or your claim to have played L2 is a lie. Either way, the forums flood after each stream and Ill take my leave again until things get interesting.
Cant wait for A2 and the A2 section on the forums. For more interesting discussions than these repetitive cyrcles.
You mean "You don't think like me so I'm leaving".
In reality, there are just the old hands that have been on this forum for years. And new people who are starting to get interested in the game.
But in the end there will be only one player base, so be less dismissive.
Are you saying Intrepid should change the game because future potential players may join the game not knowing what it is?
Because that is the only logical reason you could have to this line of thought.
I am not in a position to point out what Intrepid should or should not do.
However, Intrepid often reminds us that "everything is subject to change". So this is simply a reminder that the majority of the AOC future player base is not yet speaking.
On this forum, there are many people who are for the most part, convinced of the excellence of the rules of the game. But in the end, we will have to satisfy a larger number of players.
The challenge is to make a great MMO, well thought out with a solid player base. Tthat's it.
The corruption system is there to punish excess killing of green players, however killing occasional green players will be fine you get bit of corruption however a bit of corruption wont give to much disadvantages like dropping gear however if you keep killing greens this penelaty will get harsher but if you manage you corruption i dont think it will effect you to much, just means you can go on a mindless killing spree or you screw yourself but a green kill every now and then i think will be fine they just wanna manage mindless killing/griefing (killing players much lower then your level i beleive will be higher corruption penalty).
There also be many aspect where you can kill without the penalty aka if they hit you back they wont give your a penalty but as a reward they loose less on death, attacking/defenidng caravans wont corrupt you or participating in wars wont either along with open ocean pvp and some limited area on the map like around destroyed nodes and so on.
The main goal of corruption is to prevent griefing/mindlessly killing or just butchering noobs not to neccesarily stop pvp from happening otherwise they have a pvp flag system
This is the system we realy need to see in game before we can speculate on it since alot of it comes down to is corruption value's and things before certain penalty get applied and how much corruption value u get for x actions. if you can kill say 5 different people in an hour or 2 that is your level without any penalty like gear drop then it should be relatively fine. im hoping the penlaty for killing player around ur level is relativly low however killing somone 20 levels below you is huge thats a good thing for the game, griefing noobs is the quickest way to kill a game