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Another Idea to Mitigate PVP Griefing
AlmostDead
Member, Alpha Two
Listen, I'm just spit-balling here. I'm not even saying I think this is a good idea, but with all the recent debate about how to optimize OWPVP and minimize griefing, another idea...
I recall some years ago some a wimpy looking guy who trains at my martial arts studio was attacked outside a convenience store by a very menacing looking, huge dude. The victim beat the attacker badly, had to be pulled off him. He was a trained fighter, but you would never know by looking at him. The moral of the story is that you never know whom you're messing with.
So the "you never know who you're messing with" idea for Ashes. If a green is attacked by a purple and fights back, they have x% chance of a y% increase in stats. Maybe 5-10% chance of a 25% stat boost. But the catch is that the boost doesn't proc until you defend yourself. This would increase the likelihood of a green fighting back, while also increasing risk for the attacker (though not outright making it impossible for the attacker to prevail). If Ashes wanted to limit this to gatherers, maybe make gathering tools have the "chance of stat boost" when equipped.
And I still like the poison pill idea too. Just sayin.
I recall some years ago some a wimpy looking guy who trains at my martial arts studio was attacked outside a convenience store by a very menacing looking, huge dude. The victim beat the attacker badly, had to be pulled off him. He was a trained fighter, but you would never know by looking at him. The moral of the story is that you never know whom you're messing with.
So the "you never know who you're messing with" idea for Ashes. If a green is attacked by a purple and fights back, they have x% chance of a y% increase in stats. Maybe 5-10% chance of a 25% stat boost. But the catch is that the boost doesn't proc until you defend yourself. This would increase the likelihood of a green fighting back, while also increasing risk for the attacker (though not outright making it impossible for the attacker to prevail). If Ashes wanted to limit this to gatherers, maybe make gathering tools have the "chance of stat boost" when equipped.
And I still like the poison pill idea too. Just sayin.
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Stat boost would not entice me to flag purple if I'm not in the mood for PvP.
I would still stay green in order to punish my attacker with Corruption.
In other words, I see this as an idea as bad as the pill one.
lets say you are minding your own business, farming using your pve build, then 1 or 2 guys gank and kill you. you come back with your pvp build and attack them. they are obviously going to fight back. is it fair that they get the stat boost because you attacked first?
what if someone is trying to mob drop you then you hit him and he hits you back. now you made him harder to kill, he could probably just stand next to you and the mobs aoe will 1 shot you xD. is this fair for you? he was the one trying to grief yet he is getting the advantage with your proposed system.
what if you are with your friends and you see a known party of pkers/griefers and you know they will attack you. since you spotted them first, you will try to kill one or 2 of them using the element of surprise before they turn on you, but now you cant because you attacked first and they get the stat boost. is it fair for you and your party?
I don’t want the world to respond by surrounding me with pillows, I want to get stronger and more powerful so I can effectively push back.
Another idea, and this one is for @Dygz ...
A mechanic for people to damage themselves, or otherwise maintain a state of low HP. Basically, make yourself an insta-kill to would-be attackers, who can't see your HP level. So if they attack you, they are risking accidentally killing you, and immediately gaining corruption. This would have the benefit of making them red, so you can come back and kill them for free.
@NiKr you don't need to weigh-in here. Given that it's not part of the current design, and not your idea, we know you think it's a bad idea, so save yourself some typing. Plus, I can do this all night. It's harder to create ideas than destroy ideas, you can do better.
So a mechanic to damage yourself. Explore at full health. Nameplate looks good.
And, well, if it is, the most obviousest abuse and exploit of this mechanic would be to bait your attackers into becoming corrupted. Afaik people did this kind of stuff in BDO by taking off their gear so that any attack on them would immediately bring their attacker's karma into negatives.
This suggestion just moves the griefing from one group to the other (potentially much bigger one). If this mechanic is widely used it would just effectively remove owpvp, as it happened in BDO to my knowledge.
So admittedly I'm not going to read the 515 posts...curious what suggestions you made on the Gathering and PVP dev discussion, or PVP griefing in general? Might be something good there.
That's not griefing, it's pvp. If a gatherer who doesn't fight back is killed, that's not neccessarilly griefing either, that's called being contested for your resources in Ashes of Creation, though this will probably be fairly rare.
"In order to stop griefing, one must come up with ideas to stop griefing."
- Sun Tzu
LOL get told to sit the fk down Nikr
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/profile/discussions/NiKr
https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/u8s4kc/idea_for_corrupted_vs_bounty_hunters_balance/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/urdz2h/meaningful_gameplay_and_its_encouragement/
With the second reddit one being the weakest of the suggestions and probably the most drastic one.
I did post some general thoughts on other topics in the dev discussion threads, but I use those threads as just a place to through thoughts into rather than discussion ones. I like to read through whole threads and see everyone's views on the topic, but dev discussions usually have a ton of new people who don't know as much about the game and suggest stuff that's been discussed to death already or things that just don't fit the game. And there's hundreds of such posts in those threads, so after posting my one general thought on the topic I just ignore the threads completely.
lol yep, been there before.
Shouldn't gain Corruption for just attacking once.
I don't suppose anyone can finally explain to me who the hell Andy is?
No buffs for one side or the other. Want to give the gatherers a buff? Then take away some corruption penalties as well.
In a way, they're already using a version of your idea with corrupted stat dampening. A repeat murderer will suffer stat loss that scales upward, effectively giving the people he attacks a stat boost on him.
It was a better idea than the poison pill, I can tell you that much for sure lol
When you turn someone red and feed them to mobs then suddenly disappear forever in BDO c:
But how do you force them down on the throat of the attacker? They never cooperate
Good point, and good validation. Let's build on that. Might help address the concerns that the devs have raised.
There's too much to accommodate for that could potentially swing the defender to an overpowered state. Do level differences affect the %'s? If so, is it additive or multiplicative? What if there's more than one attacker, does the boost compound based on other purples in the area? Since it activates on the change to combatant, it would definitely need a separate timer to wear off. Otherwise the player could keep the buff running by tapping every player they then come across to remain purple.
Some things to consider.
Well there's not much to build on with your ideas. Your ideas are designed to destroy OW pvp, not griefing. With the changes Steven announced a couple days ago, griefing will be almost non existent. Even before the changes, griefing was already going to be pretty much non existent. I'm talking about actual griefing, not the loose definitions that people come up with where essentially anything they don't want to happen, is griefing.
We haven't even gotten to the point where Asmongold is attacked in the open world and just starts chanting, "Can I play the game yet? I just wanna play the game. Can I play the game yet? I just wanna play the game." While he bot walks in a straight line forward instead of actually playing the game and fighting back. As soon as Steven sees that on a youtube video or twitch, god knows what changes are coming. You might get your wish of destroying OW pvp.
That's just Asmon, other streamers and youtubers will complain about the same thing. Then when the thousands upon thousands of WoW players who've been calling the game a scam for years actually realize it's coming out...all bets are off. They'll come here to throw their weight around with a single goal - OW pvp must be destroyed. It's a threat to them, their worldview and their future game prospects, in their mind.
You may get your wish ultimately. Patience brother. Maybe once OW pvp is destroyed, with the help of Asmon and the hordes of wow players, we can get to the real conversation. MOAR INSTANCES
I became a real doomer for a good few hours after that. I hope so damn hard that Steven sticks to his guns, cause god knows people will complain so damn hard against owpvp.
Because most players have no reason to value it.
OwPvP is not that valuable as a game experience. PvP can be very valuable. But a lot of even very PvP focused players see it as POINTLESS, which, to be fair, it is. It offers precisely two things that Caravans and Sieges don't, and both those things are more often annoying than not, without some very specific mindsets.
This is why Steven COULD afford to drastically hike up Corruption and so on to the point where it just barely happens and a lot of people who like PvP still play.
The 'OW' part of it just doesn't appeal to them, it causes the reaction that its letters spell out.
"Ow."
I can live with harsher corruption rules (even if I'd prefer just a better balanced counter actions), but if the game turns into yet another toggle-based mmo, I'll just feel bad about losing my last opportunity to live in an mmo (at least until vrmmos).
And considering current design, I dunno if toggle (or a pve server for that matter) system would even work, so it might be another NW's case of "we changed the whole fucking game several year into its development", except even worse
Even Asmongold himself said he was griefing people in Wow, and you couldn't do jack against it because they had no PvP.