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Dungeon Griefing Idea after Asmongold reacts to Lucky Ghost
erros
Member, Founder, Kickstarter
This was brought up recently about when dungeons get discovered and ganking inside while a group from the node is inside trying to clear. This was in a video by Lucky Ghost followed by a reaction from Asmongold.
My thoughts are why not have a dungeon guard system like the caravan where a guard unit can be placed to keep others out while your node members are inside. They can be paid for and activated whenever needed and upgraded same as the caravans.
This leaves the option to not use them if you still want pvp to be possible for maybe more rewards that dont go towards the guards payments.
EDIT:. A little ways down, in a reply to Natasha, I elaborate more on how this isn't a carebear mode and more an incentive for more pvp by giving the dungeons a guarding event that doesn't lead to simple ganking and corruption but actual battles over them so no one guild is ever able to hold them due to many not wanting to possibly get corruption to flag over the dungeons. Read that before jumping to conclusions like several did.
My thoughts are why not have a dungeon guard system like the caravan where a guard unit can be placed to keep others out while your node members are inside. They can be paid for and activated whenever needed and upgraded same as the caravans.
This leaves the option to not use them if you still want pvp to be possible for maybe more rewards that dont go towards the guards payments.
EDIT:. A little ways down, in a reply to Natasha, I elaborate more on how this isn't a carebear mode and more an incentive for more pvp by giving the dungeons a guarding event that doesn't lead to simple ganking and corruption but actual battles over them so no one guild is ever able to hold them due to many not wanting to possibly get corruption to flag over the dungeons. Read that before jumping to conclusions like several did.
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Most of the dungeons in Ashes are open world anyway. If the node doesn't have the manpower to set up guard sentries, they could hire another "mercenary guild" with personal node resources.
NPC guards would reduce the risk for the node members inside ... which is not in line with Steven's previous quotes on meaningful conflict.
How about they make an mmo? An mmo where pvp is optional, pve is optional, losing is optional
And having someone disrupt your attempt at a dungeon isn't griefing. That's a battle over a finite resource which the team that comes better prepared should win.
The fact you guys can't think further outside of.. LUL carebear mode is rather sad and I could care less what YouTubers want.. I just thought it was an interesting idea that tied into the same mechanics as the Caravans which I would assume you don't have an issue with those having guards?
so your entire post is just a troll for reactions, thought so.
I watched the video you've mentioned and it's clear neither the narrator or Asmongold have much experience in PvP MMOs. Asmongold plays WoW, FF14, and Lost Ark. What does he know about open world full loot PvP? I've never seen him stream Eve, Ultima shards, Archage or Albion. While I like Asmon, in this case, he's talking out of his ass.
Here's the truth: Not everyone you'll encounter is in a top-tier gigachad PvP guild trying to grief you. Most of the players you meet are terrible, not much better or worse than you, and you stand a fair chance of killing them or at least running away if you take basic precautions. Don't pull too many mobs, retreat into already cleared territory when you see red-named players, have invisibility gear and potions to deaggro, etc. These are simple concepts anyone can apply.
Personally, I consider myself a PvE player. I like to craft and gather, and I stay away from PvP. And despite that, I almost never die in Albion or Ultima while carrying anything of value. I don't remember the last time I lost a substantial amount of progress. I'm careful and I know the basics. I store my loot when I get something good. I don't go to highly contested areas with legendary gear. I take cheap armor to high risk areas. You can easily do the same.
If problems exist, I am sure Intrepid will notice them and fix them in Alpha 2 and Beta or early release.
The criticism of Lucky Ghost was invalid, as Steven showed.
And I strongly disagree with PvE servers as they would be an inferior version of the game but the whole game would be judged by it.
For an mmo-rpg to have quality it needs to be an actual adventure game.
If the world feels safe when you set out in it, it means it's sterile, it means there's no feeling of adventure because adventure = danger and people will notice this sterile feeling but won't know what to atribute it to, when in fact their own choice of PVE SERVER would be to blame.
No, I strongly believe AOC is good as it is as if problem exists with the corruption system, changes can always be made to buff it or extend it.
But I don't believe in PvE servers or invulnerability ot PvP.
Here is the thing:
Carebears have to understand that PVP players can cause them problems but also can save them from problems.
Start inviting PVPers to the guild, do PVP roams, run intel alts, ambush and kill your adversaries.
Bring the killers to your guild, train PVP at least defensively.
The problems won't come through the ganking, the problems will come through the agressive use of the Corruption system, such system will become a tug of war.
Yes!
In other words: be a better player
Don't except the company to do your job as a player.
Not much to add other than say I love this post. Its refreshing and I agree with every word in it.
There, this guy said it all.
Yeah, Asmongold is just a relentless try-hard hoarding carebear.
He has no clue about the possibilities while working with other people in a free-for-all PVP where everybody is free to work together or against each other.
There, this guy saying it all again!
No game is this perma griefing thing, unless you are playing a MMO as if it was a single player... sometimes working together with one or two players is more than enough and you don't even need a guild
EVE Online is the most punishing pvp game there is and the big alliances have their PVE guys building up the alliance's war industry... the pvp guys gather intel and do pvp roams to kill invaders.
In the long run everybody becomes pvp trained at least to handle themselves in a battle or in travel or doing their PVE farming.
Asmongold is 100% the future Vader for steven
No... What do you guys not understand about this... It is 100% not in favor of a carebear type deal..
I even stated using the caravan system as the model...
How does the caravan system work.. ok let's explain in detail since you guys apparently can't think outside the box.
1 Someone puts their fortune into a big fat piggy bank. Their node has invested in barracks for better guards so what happens, and this IS a functioning IN game system already told to us, they buy upgraded guards to help move that sweet fat piggy bank.
2 it rolls out of town and a radius around town protects it from spawn and even around each other node as a safe space. Now between those safe spaces you can opt to attack or defend it.
3 Break open the piggy bank you get nice loot. Defend it.. I hope we get some form of compensation because a pat on the back won't cut it. Again this IS a game system already.........
Now let's apply this to dungeons... Your city has upgraded barracks and you have several dungeons. Maybe your city wants to be able to protect it's resources but charge you for it... You hire a set amount of guards just like the caravan and it's all based on what your city has invested in but they are only going to guard the entrance for a set time. Now you can also have the same functions but NO npc guards and the entrance sets up an event area where people can opt to defend the entrances Both can apply.
(The only issue here is how to apply this with potentially different groups trying to go in. Perhaps if a group is already tagged as having killed bosses inside and didn't opt for guarding then the function is disabled until that group exits and then if it's activated entering parties have to accept less loot for that time period, overall this could even simply be a voted on thing within the citizens of the node itself but entering parties can choose to dismiss the guards and I say this for the following reason Risk vs Reward)
Either way using this reduces the risks obviously so what happens you reduce the rewards potential for the dungeon, or some of the spoils go to the guarding pool and once their time expires the loot they collected is Need/Greeded out or auto based on contribution. But the same rules apply here... Someone or a group can choose to opt for attacking the dungeon making them able to fight without worrying about corruption to try and take over the dungeon. If they beat the guards the loot collected up to that point is rolled on by the attacking players and then they can proceed inside also fighting the players inside that opted for guards.
These guards could also range from actually guarding to a simple Alert that someone or a group has entered.
This adds more potential to fight over dungeons without corruption getting in the way, potentially making it so 1 guild or group can't always keep the dungeon locked down.
This is exactly me... Basically the whole concept of this was actually to allow more incentive to PvP for the dungeons by placing a guarding system, be it npc, players or both. Using the caravan system that allows the defending and attacking of dungeons without the worry of corruption to the attacking party.. I guess it wasnt really clear enough so I elaborated further in another post here.
On paper this sounds great, but for it to be viable I think there needs to be a "guard duty" game system in place. The guard players should be considered "part" of the raiding group and receive appropriate rewards, instead of some agreed upon price with the potential to scam. I also don't think it's too much fun to be on guard duty throughout the duration of the raid, if nobody shows up willing to contest. So perhaps the guards should get a minigame of sort (killing waves of mobs, idk). Since most of the content in AoC is open world, I think such system would be quire warranted.
While I'm not entirely against the "official guard payment contract" idea, it's worth noting that the guards will largely be other members of the same guild, or close allied guilds, not random hirelings. Cheating them already comes with large social consequences (probably guild war, short term, and loss of allies long term).
You can't use waves of mobs, because they need to be at full HP/MP/etc at a moment's notice to defend. It might be interesting to give them a way to watch the raid while defending it. This would produce some interesting gameplay where the analysts and possibly even shotcallers can be on guard duty while still playing an active role, in either the immediate gameplay, or post-mortem analysis.
pvp playr will stick to a node area too so alot of the dungeon will probaly be uncontested cause travel distance players will stick closer to there main node
Tl:DW The diminishing rate of returns on going red combined with the way the node system works will create enough drag on the PvP guilds Lucky was referring to so that the rest of the server could fight back. And also that hiding percent health will mitigate people using mobs to last hit kill.
I disagree with some of this but it was still reasonable arguments for the content creator to make in response to Lucky's own critique. Nothing really different from what has been said on this forum, however.
(Also the cc'ing green thing never came up which means this person did their research rather than jumping on something recently changed by Steven so kudos on them for accurate research.)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
L2 is L2, Aoc is not released yet nor are all the systems detailed. If research is assuming AoC will work exactly the same as L2 and so he can say they should add pve servers, that is a hard disagree from me.
I was saying that the person you linked did research, I was not talking about Lucky Ghost. Read what I wrote again.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
He can opine that Intrepid should add PvE servers.
And, still... we will wait until Alpha 2 to evaluate...
Same as when everyone else suggests PvE servers.