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PvP players ideas: "Getting the same CORRUPTION for hitting a player as finishing him (killing)"

LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited October 2022 in General Discussion
As a player of Lineage 2 and many other PvP games and a supporter of open world PvP, I have an idea how to overcome the system of cunning (tricky) killing of players. When you deal damage to 95% of a player's health and another player finishes him (last hit) and gets corruption. It is necessary to make sure that everyone who inflicted damage on the player receives the same corruption as the player who finished (killed) the player. :*:*:*:*

Edited: To bring clarity to the thread. If you decide PK players, then this is your choice and it's great, part of the game, interesting content - we love it :p . But still, in AoC, as well like in L2, PK carries corruption (karma in L2) and, in my opinion, it should be given not only to the finishers (last hit which kills), but also to those who help him - through hitting PK's target. So that the accomplices would also be punished - accomplices in murder.
It can be same corruption like a last hit-giver (finisher) or something, like, last hit-giver (finisher) gets 1k corruption , who helped him to kill gets 500 corruption and etc.
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Comments

  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    no :*:*:*:*
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    You'd have to include healers/buffers in that too. And probably retroactively for buffers.

    PKing someone implies that they didn't fight back, so the attacker had 0 problems with killing their victim. Why would their group help him do the PKing if the victim didn't fight back in the first place.

    Parties will just have designated killers who will get no help, but will get all the corruption. This is already the plan for quite a few people on the forum.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    No. Next thread plz
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    You'd have to include healers/buffers in that too. And probably retroactively for buffers.

    PKing someone implies that they didn't fight back, so the attacker had 0 problems with killing their victim. Why would their group help him do the PKing if the victim didn't fight back in the first place.

    Parties will just have designated killers who will get no help, but will get all the corruption. This is already the plan for quite a few people on the forum.

    Because it will be possible to abuse the PK system. Where all corruption is to be collected by one person, the rest will be clear.

    I understand what you mean, but there will be situations where players will kick people out of the monster-spots and stay clean.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Lineager wrote: »
    Because it will be possible to abuse the PK system. Where all corruption is to be collected by one person, the rest will be clear.

    Why would I do this? What about XP debt, stat dampening, bounty hunters seeing me on the map, chances of losing gear.
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Thread edited little beat, to bring clarity in what I mean.

    Edited: To bring clarity to the thread. If you decide PK players, then this is your choice and it's great, part of the game, interesting content - we love it :p . But still, in AoC, as well like in L2, PK carries corruption (karma in L2) and, in my opinion, it should be given not only to the finishers (last hit which kills), but also to those who help him - through hitting PK's target. So that the accomplices would also be punished - accomplices in murder.
    It can be same corruption like a last hit-giver (finisher) or something, like, last hit-giver (finisher) gets 1k corruption , who helped him to kill gets 500 corruption and etc.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    its a bad idea. you cant control what other people do. what if you are partyign with randoms and one decides to kill someone else. maybe they had beef. im not gonna kick my party member and ruin my farm cuz he decided to go pk, ill still help him cleanse his corruption and w can keep farming.

    also, organized parties will have a designated pker, usually the tank. and implementing this "solution" simply means the tank leaves the party, kills the other dude, then rejoins.

    its a bad solution
  • LashLash Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    They could just add a PK counter to everyone who helped and give only the killing blow player the corruption. This way the helpers will be punished if they ever gain corruption themselves.
  • If you have many players, passing by a gatherer, and each will hit the gatherer to see if he fights back, eventually he will die. But none of these attackers really had the intention to kill him.
    I see no reason to get corruption after you left the gatherer and somebody comes and kills him.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Lashing wrote: »
    They could just add a PK counter to everyone who helped and give only the killing blow player the corruption. This way the helpers will be punished if they ever gain corruption themselves.
    I could see this working out. It wouldn't really influence parties with designated PKers, because that player would always be the one to get the corruption, but if the other members ever have to PK someone - they'll reap what they've sown so far.
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lashing wrote: »
    They could just add a PK counter to everyone who helped and give only the killing blow player the corruption. This way the helpers will be punished if they ever gain corruption themselves.

    Yeah, it's possible, as I said he can get also part of the corruption, like half of corruption gets a PK. Or as you said it could be applied to the PK's helper, later when he get PK status. Good idea.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Depraved wrote: »
    its a bad idea. you cant control what other people do. what if you are partyign with randoms and one decides to kill someone else. maybe they had beef. im not gonna kick my party member and ruin my farm cuz he decided to go pk, ill still help him cleanse his corruption and w can keep farming.

    also, organized parties will have a designated pker, usually the tank. and implementing this "solution" simply means the tank leaves the party, kills the other dude, then rejoins.

    its a bad solution

    Well, just being grouped wouldn't matter, but if you healed the attacker, or damaged the non-combatant you should probably be an accomplice.

  • I don't like the idea of corruption at all, this shoud not exist in any case.

    But if we gonna have corruption, then there's this:
    - only the people who agreed in such attack should get corruption, even healers and buffers.

    You have to suffer the consequences for being in a group that has people willing to do things that you didn't agree with.

    If you are buffing and healing one ganker, then the ganker wins the fight and only he gets corrupted it's VERY ODD gamewise to say the least... this would make people extremely mad.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Corruption shouldn't exist, how will you force another guild out of an area?

    This will become just like in those MMOs with people aggroing mobs and then running away and making the mobs switch to and kill the players from the other guild.

    Corruption is a bad idea, people people fight freely.
    The more rules you make the more rules you have to make on top of it.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Vyril wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    its a bad idea. you cant control what other people do. what if you are partyign with randoms and one decides to kill someone else. maybe they had beef. im not gonna kick my party member and ruin my farm cuz he decided to go pk, ill still help him cleanse his corruption and w can keep farming.

    also, organized parties will have a designated pker, usually the tank. and implementing this "solution" simply means the tank leaves the party, kills the other dude, then rejoins.

    its a bad solution

    Well, just being grouped wouldn't matter, but if you healed the attacker, or damaged the non-combatant you should probably be an accomplice.

    id only heal the attacker if the defender hit him...that means he would go purple as well .-.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Corruption shouldn't exist, how will you force another guild out of an area?

    This will become just like in those MMOs with people aggroing mobs and then running away and making the mobs switch to and kill the players from the other guild.

    Corruption is a bad idea, people people fight freely.
    The more rules you make the more rules you have to make on top of it.

    just fight them..and you can have ppl with trash gear going red. tanks n stuff. theres many ways but i dont wanna help ppl figure this out ahah.

    the corruption system needs to exist, or you would remove all the risk, it would go against the design philosophy
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Vyril wrote: »
    Well, just being grouped wouldn't matter, but if you healed the attacker, or damaged the non-combatant you should probably be an accomplice.

    Whether to give the party corruption or not takes this thread even deeper.
    In my opinion, "Damage dealers" as a Healers need to be given a certain amount of corruption - same or not.

  • Lineager wrote: »
    As a player of Lineage 2 and many other PvP games and a supporter of open world PvP, I have an idea how to overcome the system of cunning (tricky) killing of players. When you deal damage to 95% of a player's health and another player finishes him (last hit) and gets corruption. It is necessary to make sure that everyone who inflicted damage on the player receives the same corruption as the player who finished (killed) the player. :*:*:*:*

    Edited: To bring clarity to the thread. If you decide PK players, then this is your choice and it's great, part of the game, interesting content - we love it :p . But still, in AoC, as well like in L2, PK carries corruption (karma in L2) and, in my opinion, it should be given not only to the finishers (last hit which kills), but also to those who help him - through hitting PK's target. So that the accomplices would also be punished - accomplices in murder.
    It can be same corruption like a last hit-giver (finisher) or something, like, last hit-giver (finisher) gets 1k corruption , who helped him to kill gets 500 corruption and etc.

    I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but what if I don't want to kill someone but just interrupt what they are doing? So I damage the other player so that he interrupts what he is doing (but without intention to kill him) and stop damaging him when he interrupts his activity or before he dies.
    If now another random player comes along and kills him I would get corruption according to your suggestion without wanting to kill the player...
    I don't know... I see the problem you describe, but the solution is not perfect.

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  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    I think attacking players should give corruption as well, just much less of it compared to the execution.
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Asgermon wrote: »
    I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but what if I don't want to kill someone but just interrupt what they are doing? So I damage the other player so that he interrupts what he is doing (but without intention to kill him) and stop damaging him when he interrupts his activity or before he dies.
    If now another random player comes along and kills him I would get corruption according to your suggestion without wanting to kill the player...
    I don't know... I see the problem you describe, but the solution is not perfect.

    That's why I like when attacker (not killer) gets some part of corruption, not the same. But btw, if we compare to real life, when accomplice get some punishment, but not the same, like a killer.

  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Lineager wrote: »
    Asgermon wrote: »
    I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but what if I don't want to kill someone but just interrupt what they are doing? So I damage the other player so that he interrupts what he is doing (but without intention to kill him) and stop damaging him when he interrupts his activity or before he dies.
    If now another random player comes along and kills him I would get corruption according to your suggestion without wanting to kill the player...
    I don't know... I see the problem you describe, but the solution is not perfect.

    That's why I like when attacker (not killer) gets some part of corruption, not the same. But btw, if we compare to real life, when accomplice get some punishment, but not the same, like a killer.

    you cant respawn in real life
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Lineager wrote: »
    Asgermon wrote: »
    I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but what if I don't want to kill someone but just interrupt what they are doing? So I damage the other player so that he interrupts what he is doing (but without intention to kill him) and stop damaging him when he interrupts his activity or before he dies.
    If now another random player comes along and kills him I would get corruption according to your suggestion without wanting to kill the player...
    I don't know... I see the problem you describe, but the solution is not perfect.

    That's why I like when attacker (not killer) gets some part of corruption, not the same. But btw, if we compare to real life, when accomplice get some punishment, but not the same, like a killer.

    you cant respawn in real life

    sys ur religion.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nah
  • I said this in another discussion, I'm surprised it's not in the game already. It's only fair if you contributed to someone's death whether it was by damaging them, CCing them, de buffing them or supporting another player doing so with heals or buffs that you earn corruption yourself. Regardless of how they died, even if you didn't deal the killing blow. Support classes should not be immune to corruption. This also helps with the issue of people playing the system and avoiding corruption by doing all the damage or CCing a player to get them killed by mobs. They wouldn't even need the new change to CC against non-combatants.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Voeltz wrote: »
    I said this in another discussion, I'm surprised it's not in the game already. It's only fair if you contributed to someone's death whether it was by damaging them, CCing them, de buffing them or supporting another player doing so with heals or buffs that you earn corruption yourself. Regardless of how they died, even if you didn't deal the killing blow. Support classes should not be immune to corruption. This also helps with the issue of people playing the system and avoiding corruption by doing all the damage or CCing a player to get them killed by mobs. They wouldn't even need the new change to CC against non-combatants.
    As has been said before, this kind of change gets completely destroyed by the fact that in order for PKing to occur you gotta have a victim that does nothing and an attacker that kills that victim. You won't need help to kill a person who does nothing.

    And what would be the timer for buffers too? Would it be just a "if there's even a single one of your buffs on the killer - you will also get corruption, no matter if that buff has 30 minutes duration and you didn't even know that the killer did the PK"? Cause that sounds like shit design. And depending on buffer design, there could be a chance that buffers will be able to sell their buffs to people and this mechanic would then be abused in order to kill the buffers and loot them.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    no
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • NiKr wrote: »
    .
    As has been said before, this kind of change gets completely destroyed by the fact that in order for PKing to occur you gotta have a victim that does nothing and an attacker that kill that victim. You won't need help to kill a person who does nothing.

    And what would be the timer for buffers too? Would it be just a "if there's even a single one of your buffs on the killer - you will also get corruption, no matter if that buff has 30 minutes duration and you didn't even know that the killer did the PK"? Cause that sounds like shit design. And depending on buffer design, there could be a chance that buffers will be able to sell their buffs to people and this mechanic would then be abused in order to kill the buffers and loot them.

    No, it really doesn't. And you saying that doesn't make it so. Whether you need help or not is missing the point completely. It's possible and it happens. This also serves a dual purpose for people like yourself that like to get around corruption by CCing or reducing people to low health while their fighting mobs and getting the mobs to do the finishing blow. Convenient you left that part out of your argument.

    That would be determined by the amount of buffs and the strength of their benefits. It would have to be tested like a lot of things. Long term buffs tend to be weaker so that wouldn't contribute much. The more buffs, the more corruption builds. Same as damage, same as anything. And your last sentence is so absurd I feel no need to debate it.

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    This also serves a dual purpose for people like yourself that like to get around corruption by CCing or reducing people to low health while their fighting mobs and getting the mobs to do the finishing blow. Convenient you left that part out of your argument.
    I'd be completely fine if Intrepid decided to give corruption to those who did >50% dmg to a player that just died to a mob.

    This would kinda make sense considering that Steven made that "abuse" of the system easier by having nameplate decay indicate how much dmg the target has received. In L2 you had 0 info about that so it was truly difficult to avoid corruption (though not impossible). Ashes will also supposedly have 30sec+ ttk, so it's gonna be EVEN EASIER to avoid getting corruption on people how're attacked by mobs.

    I'm sure people will complain about this "abuse" during testing.
    Voeltz wrote: »
    And your last sentence is so absurd I feel no need to debate it.
    In L2 you had buffers that could buff a target for 20 minutes. They would stand near a teleporter and sell their buffs for solo players. Made quite a lot of money by doing that. If Ashes has long-lasting buffs like that, I could definitely see how buffers might stand at the entrance of a dungeon and sell their services to any small groups or solo players.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Lineager wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Well, just being grouped wouldn't matter, but if you healed the attacker, or damaged the non-combatant you should probably be an accomplice.

    Whether to give the party corruption or not takes this thread even deeper.
    In my opinion, "Damage dealers" as a Healers need to be given a certain amount of corruption - same or not.

    That's what I said.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Voeltz wrote: »
    I said this in another discussion, I'm surprised it's not in the game already. It's only fair if you contributed to someone's death whether it was by damaging them, CCing them, de buffing them or supporting another player doing so with heals or buffs that you earn corruption yourself. Regardless of how they died, even if you didn't deal the killing blow. Support classes should not be immune to corruption. This also helps with the issue of people playing the system and avoiding corruption by doing all the damage or CCing a player to get them killed by mobs. They wouldn't even need the new change to CC against non-combatants.

    ok lets say you are a healer or buffer and your doing your own thing, then someone comes to you and asks you for heals or buffs. they say hey ill pay you 1000 gold for heals or buffs. you take the money and heal or buff them, then 2 seconds later they go and murder someone nearby because they didnt like him or it was a kos. is it fair that you get corruption?

    another example. you are leveling with your party and you see another party coming. you know they will pvp you for the spot (because youve played these type of games before and you developed a sense of awareness and know when someone will attack you before they do it) then you decide to strike first and focus fire kill their healer before the go purple. is it fair that everybody in your party gets corruption? now ur all red, you cant cc the other party, but u can be cced, and you get your stats dampened. the strategic decision you made, while having a risk, would give u an advantage and ultimately the reward of winning the fight. but now u gonna lose a 7 vs 8 and ur whole party will be gearless. even if you win the 8vs7, everybody will have corruption x8 instead of just maybe 1 or 2 players. probably pretty hard to cleanse all that before they come back and kill you, or someone else shows up and kills you.

    another example. lets say you are trying to find someone willing to pvp, then you see a guy and hit him once. you realize he doesnt wanna pvp and then you leave. 2 seconds later he dies to a mob cuz he messed up, maybe overpulled or whatever the reason. is it fair that you get corruption?
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