If you want open world PvP you just play on a PvP server.
The game can be designed the exact same way and nothing needs to change other than on a PvE server, open world PvP is just disabled. You'd still have areas where PvP is enabled, just not the entire map.
1. Who wants to do Caravans when it turns on PvP? Better to use Mules and do multiple round trips for safety since PvP is not turned on in the open world.
2. Who cares about auction houses when you can gather everything on your own without any possible interruptions?
3. Who wants to store their items in a Node's warehouse or a house or a Freehold when they can be destroyed in a siege? Better to keep them all on your alts in the open world since no one can kill you.
You say the game can be designed in the exact same way and yet with only these 3 points, a PvE server will completely destroy the game's core designs and gameplay mechanics. This game is built around those PvP gameplay systems first and foremost (Nodes). If there isn't any risks involved for players to keep anything in their Nodes, they won't care about Nodes.
No, it's because having PvP built into the underpinnings of a game's systems and simply adding bacon to a sandwich aren't analogous. Ashes is elementally an OW PvP game, it's not added in like a condiment. The bacon is baked into the bread, the grease covers the entire kitchen, including the cutting boards the lettuce and tomatoes are sliced on. So, I'm not saying you can't pick whatever you want out of your BLT to make it vegetarian, I'm just saying you're not going to be served a BLT without bacon.
PvP is not built into the underpinning of every single part of Ashes of Creation. When you are doing a quest at level 10, the possibility of being ganked by another player is not core to that experience. It's core to the experience a PvPer wants specifically. PvP is core to a lot of systems and that's why I say what I say in the next part of my post...
I'd prefer your own argument rather than just posting someone else's YouTube video but I'll respond to it anyway.
The guy in that video is making claims of what a PvE server must be. He is not accounting for the fact a PvE server can have all the things he says it can't have.
Literally the minimum requirement for a PvE server, is disabling optional PvP.
A PvE server could be as simple as no Open World PvP outside of content such as dungeons, caravans, worldbosses, raids, etc...
People who PvP at that content can be corrupted and bounty hunters can go kill them.
Obviously there would be less corruption, and less bounty hunting, but that's also because PvE players wouldn't even want that in the first place. If they wanted that they would just play on a PvP server.
Now there are a million ways you could set up a PvE server, some requiring more effort and some requiring less effort, if you want to argue how much effort should be put in we can argue that but currently we're just arguing the actual concept of a PvE server.
No, it's because having PvP built into the underpinnings of a game's systems and simply adding bacon to a sandwich aren't analogous. Ashes is elementally an OW PvP game, it's not added in like a condiment. The bacon is baked into the bread, the grease covers the entire kitchen, including the cutting boards the lettuce and tomatoes are sliced on. So, I'm not saying you can't pick whatever you want out of your BLT to make it vegetarian, I'm just saying you're not going to be served a BLT without bacon.
PvP is not built into the underpinning of every single part of Ashes of Creation. When you are doing a quest at level 10, the possibility of being ganked by another player is not core to that experience. It's core to the experience a PvPer wants specifically. PvP is core to a lot of systems and that's why I say what I say in the next part of my post...
I'd prefer your own argument rather than just posting someone else's YouTube video but I'll respond to it anyway.
The guy in that video is making claims of what a PvE server must be. He is not accounting for the fact a PvE server can have all the things he says it can't have.
Literally the minimum requirement for a PvE server, is disabling optional PvP.
A PvE server could be as simple as no Open World PvP outside of content such as dungeons, caravans, worldbosses, raids, etc...
People who PvP at that content can be corrupted and bounty hunters can go kill them.
Obviously there would be less corruption, and less bounty hunting, but that's also because PvE players wouldn't even want that in the first place. If they wanted that they would just play on a PvP server.
Now there are a million ways you could set up a PvE server, some requiring more effort and some requiring less effort, if you want to argue how much effort should be put in we can argue that but currently we're just arguing the actual concept of a PvE server.
No, it's because having PvP built into the underpinnings of a game's systems and simply adding bacon to a sandwich aren't analogous. Ashes is elementally an OW PvP game, it's not added in like a condiment. The bacon is baked into the bread, the grease covers the entire kitchen, including the cutting boards the lettuce and tomatoes are sliced on. So, I'm not saying you can't pick whatever you want out of your BLT to make it vegetarian, I'm just saying you're not going to be served a BLT without bacon.
PvP is not built into the underpinning of every single part of Ashes of Creation. When you are doing a quest at level 10, the possibility of being ganked by another player is not core to that experience. It's core to the experience a PvPer wants specifically. PvP is core to a lot of systems and that's why I say what I say in the next part of my post...
I'd prefer your own argument rather than just posting someone else's YouTube video but I'll respond to it anyway.
The guy in that video is making claims of what a PvE server must be. He is not accounting for the fact a PvE server can have all the things he says it can't have.
Literally the minimum requirement for a PvE server, is disabling optional PvP.
A PvE server could be as simple as no Open World PvP outside of content such as dungeons, caravans, worldbosses, raids, etc...
People who PvP at that content can be corrupted and bounty hunters can go kill them.
Obviously there would be less corruption, and less bounty hunting, but that's also because PvE players wouldn't even want that in the first place. If they wanted that they would just play on a PvP server.
Now there are a million ways you could set up a PvE server, some requiring more effort and some requiring less effort, if you want to argue how much effort should be put in we can argue that but currently we're just arguing the actual concept of a PvE server.
If you want open world PvP you just play on a PvP server.
The game can be designed the exact same way and nothing needs to change other than on a PvE server, open world PvP is just disabled. You'd still have areas where PvP is enabled, just not the entire map.
1. Who wants to do Caravans when it turns on PvP? Better to use Mules and do multiple round trips for safety since PvP is not turned on in the open world.
2. Who cares about auction houses when you can gather everything on your own without any possible interruptions?
3. Who wants to store their items in a Node's warehouse or a house or a Freehold when they can be destroyed in a siege? Better to keep them all on your alts in the open world since no one can kill you.
You say the game can be designed in the exact same way and yet with only these 3 points, a PvE server will completely destroy the game's core designs and gameplay mechanics. This game is built around those PvP gameplay systems first and foremost (Nodes). If there isn't any risks involved for players to keep anything in their Nodes, they won't care about Nodes.
1. Being able to transport 10x the resources at a faster speed might still be useful. If you know a resource is being bought for a high price on the other side of the world, taking 10x longer to get there could drastically lower your profits. But it totally could be the case that caravans are never used which would be an issue.
I think the only catchall answer to that would be enabling PvP for players with a certain amount of goods, or possibly the fastest trade routes have PvP enabled. Again my definition of a PvE server is disabling optional PvP not all PvP.
2. Auction houses are still used in PvE servers in other MMOs. Also because of how the artisan specialization works you'd still need to rely on other players for things. You can't gather everything on your own.
3. That applies to PvP servers as well, you can't kill an alt if they are logged out.
A PvE server could be as simple as no Open World PvP outside of content such as dungeons, caravans, worldbosses, raids, etc...
I agree. Where we disagree is that you think Ashes of Creation still exists in that defined state, and I don't.
Yeah that's fair. But I don't see how that matters when you wouldn't ever experience that state. If a BLT isn't a BLT without bacon, who cares? You still get to have your BLT with bacon.
Yeah that's fair. But I don't see how that matters when you wouldn't ever experience that state. If a BLT isn't a BLT without bacon, who cares? You still get to have your BLT with bacon.
I agree that you don’t see it. That’s two things we agree on. We’re almost BFFs. 🤗
Having followed this project for like 5 years, I’m just going to give you a blunt assessment based on my observations:
- you’re never going to get a PvE Ashes server
- you’re either going to get a PvX Ashes w/tuned corruption, or you’re going to get a FFA PvP Ashes
It’s as simple as the dude funding the whole deal is a stone cold ow pvp fanatic, so when he says ‘this game isn’t for everyone,’ he might be talking to you.
I notice a trend of people wrongly assuming I want a PvE server.
You can defend and argue for things without being personally attached to them.
The point of the topic was:
Why would separate servers that focus on PvE be bad?
People then assumed the point of the topic was:
I want a PvE server, tell me why I shouldn't want one.
A lot of the comments here are just arguing a strawman argument that doesn't actually exist.
You intentionally create the topics in a controversial way. That is your real objective.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Yeah that's fair. But I don't see how that matters when you wouldn't ever experience that state. If a BLT isn't a BLT without bacon, who cares? You still get to have your BLT with bacon.
I agree that you don’t see it. That’s two things we agree on. We’re almost BFFs. 🤗
Having followed this project for like 5 years, I’m just going to give you a blunt assessment based on my observations:
- you’re never going to get a PvE Ashes server
- you’re either going to get a PvX Ashes w/tuned corruption, or you’re going to get a FFA PvP Ashes
It’s as simple as the dude funding the whole deal is a stone cold ow pvp fanatic, so when he says ‘this game isn’t for everyone,’ he might be talking to you.
I notice a trend of people wrongly assuming I want a PvE server.
You can defend and argue for things without being personally attached to them.
The point of the topic was:
Why would separate servers that focus on PvE be bad?
People then assumed the point of the topic was:
I want a PvE server, tell me why I shouldn't want one.
A lot of the comments here are just arguing a strawman argument that doesn't actually exist.
You intentionally create the topics in a controversial way. That is your real objective.
No I'm genuinely bad at expression and communication lol
Having followed this project for like 5 years, I’m just going to give you a blunt assessment based on my observations:
- you’re never going to get a PvE Ashes server
- you’re either going to get a PvX Ashes w/tuned corruption, or you’re going to get a FFA PvP Ashes
It’s as simple as the dude funding the whole deal is a stone cold ow pvp fanatic, so when he says ‘this game isn’t for everyone,’ he might be talking to you.
I notice a trend of people wrongly assuming I want a PvE server.
You can defend and argue for things without being personally attached to them.
The point of the topic was:
Why would separate servers that focus on PvE be bad?
People then assumed the point of the topic was:
I want a PvE server, tell me why I shouldn't want one.
A lot of the comments here are just arguing a strawman argument that doesn't actually exist.
You intentionally create the topics in a controversial way. That is your real objective.
No I'm genuinely bad at expression and communication lol
I need to quote this for future reference
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
The guy in that video is making claims of what a PvE server must be. He is not accounting for the fact a PvE server can have all the things he says it can't have.
The first point he says is "no corruption so no Bounty Hunter"
The first thing... You just didnt watch video.
You would say "for PvE boys, bh is not an interesting thing, right
But what about the FFA areas : high seas, and node's ruins ?
For the high seas there will be content, and so, on PvP servers it would be a FFA PvP, and on PvE servers it would be no PvP, two totally different game there again.
You will say "force flag people for high sea" ... You REALLY think that PvE fan of the game won't do post again and again, megathread or spam of threads to have this removed on PvE servers ?
Sure devs don't have to follow every idea in forums even the most supported one... and there is no bad buzz right ? Because people will feel ignored, despised if they see that this highly popular request is not listened...
Its so annoying that every time we get a PvP\ PvX MMO the CareBears always show up and try to change it.
By screaming its grefing, its anti social, its not fun bla bla bla.
If AoC \ Intrepid ever change the PvP flaging and\ or the death penalty like XP loss or loot drop`s am going to delete my account in a instant. The risk vs reward and PvP is what makes Ashes GREAT.
Long story short, we don't know how much of a cluster fuck PvP will be in this game and the impact it has on the PvE player base that give Ashes a try. So let's all just sit back, grab a cup of coffee and wait until the game exists. Then if the "carebears" don't like the game, they will inevitably quit (if the consensus is correct) and the population will be made up of players that enjoy AoC for the vision that Steven always had for it.
Will the population that's left provide intrepid with a big enough pot to keep servers running and development going? Who knows, we sure as shit know fuck all at the moment. All I know is, if the unfortunate scenario unfolds that the game is unsustainable due to its core design, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles, but atleast the stalwart community members that wanted absolutely no change to the design of the games PvP systems or the introduction of PvE servers will get a good few years of playing a great PvP experience and at best we can PvP to our hearts content for years to come! Crowfall & MO2 released in 2021 right? If they're shut down by the time AOC releases then maybe their combined total of 3k daily players will join us in AOC 😊
The guy in that video is making claims of what a PvE server must be. He is not accounting for the fact a PvE server can have all the things he says it can't have.
The first point he says is "no corruption so no Bounty Hunter"
The first thing... You just didnt watch video.
You would say "for PvE boys, bh is not an interesting thing, right
But what about the FFA areas : high seas, and node's ruins ?
For the high seas there will be content, and so, on PvP servers it would be a FFA PvP, and on PvE servers it would be no PvP, two totally different game there again.
You will say "force flag people for high sea" ... You REALLY think that PvE fan of the game won't do post again and again, megathread or spam of threads to have this removed on PvE servers ?
Sure devs don't have to follow every idea in forums even the most supported one... and there is no bad buzz right ? Because people will feel ignored, despised if they see that this highly popular request is not listened...
I did watch the video. My answer for the first point is the same as every other point. If PvP has to be enabled for some content, then enable it. That has literally nothing to do what I'm talking about. I said all a PvE server needs to be is less PvP than a PvP server.
You said that I would say "bounty hunting is not interesting for PvE players."
It could still be interesting, but it wouldn't be the preferred content, that goes for all PVP content.
"You REALLY think that PvE fan of the game won't do post again and again, megathread or spam of threads to have this removed on PvE servers?"
People can post whatever they want on a forum, so no, that doesn't bother me.
Sure devs don't have to follow every idea in forums even the most supported one... and there is no bad buzz right ? Because people will feel ignored, despised if they see that this highly popular request is not listened...
Isn't this the entire point of Ashes of Creation? That Steven is going to make the game he wants to make regardless? Have you lost faith in the entire point of this project?
People get so triggered when you talk about things they don't want in the game, as if a forum post is actually going to somehow add it to the game lol.
I'm arguing about PvE servers, not because I think they'll be added, because I know that they wont. I'm arguing about PvE servers because there is an argument to be made for them. Instead of an echo chamber where everyone repeats the same copium mantras to themselves, I prefer to talk about things people disagree with, because it's more interesting.
Its so annoying that every time we get a PvP\ PvX MMO the CareBears always show up and try to change it.
By screaming its grefing, its anti social, its not fun bla bla bla.
If AoC \ Intrepid ever change the PvP flaging and\ or the death penalty like XP loss or loot drop`s am going to delete my account in a instant. The risk vs reward and PvP is what makes Ashes GREAT.
Who's trying to change the game? I couldn't find them.
So far I haven't actually seen a single argument for changing PvP flagging, death penalties or loot drops. Could you quote what you're referring to?
Its so annoying that every time we get a PvP\ PvX MMO the CareBears always show up and try to change it.
By screaming its grefing, its anti social, its not fun bla bla bla.
If AoC \ Intrepid ever change the PvP flaging and\ or the death penalty like XP loss or loot drop`s am going to delete my account in a instant. The risk vs reward and PvP is what makes Ashes GREAT.
Who's trying to change the game? I couldn't find them.
So far I haven't actually seen a single argument for changing PvP flagging, death penalties or loot drops. Could you quote what you're referring to?
Guy makes a thread called pve servers and says something like this. You can't make this trolling up.
Its so annoying that every time we get a PvP\ PvX MMO the CareBears always show up and try to change it.
By screaming its grefing, its anti social, its not fun bla bla bla.
If AoC \ Intrepid ever change the PvP flaging and\ or the death penalty like XP loss or loot drop`s am going to delete my account in a instant. The risk vs reward and PvP is what makes Ashes GREAT.
Who's trying to change the game? I couldn't find them.
So far I haven't actually seen a single argument for changing PvP flagging, death penalties or loot drops. Could you quote what you're referring to?
Guy makes a thread called pve servers and says something like this. You can't make this trolling up.
If don't understand something, you could try to understand it. If you don't even want to attempt to understand what other people think I'm not sure why you'd even bother commenting. That's what I would call trolling.
Its so annoying that every time we get a PvP\ PvX MMO the CareBears always show up and try to change it.
By screaming its grefing, its anti social, its not fun bla bla bla.
If AoC \ Intrepid ever change the PvP flaging and\ or the death penalty like XP loss or loot drop`s am going to delete my account in a instant. The risk vs reward and PvP is what makes Ashes GREAT.
Who's trying to change the game? I couldn't find them.
So far I haven't actually seen a single argument for changing PvP flagging, death penalties or loot drops. Could you quote what you're referring to?
Guy makes a thread called pve servers and says something like this. You can't make this trolling up.
If don't understand something, you could try to understand it. If you don't even want to attempt to understand what other people think I'm not sure why you'd even bother commenting. That's what I would call trolling.
You are literarily not understanding what people are telling you here and then saying they make more money with pve servers, which everyone has already told you they are aware of how to be chasing the money in a mmorpg...Then you go in circles
So your argument is that we shouldn't provide more options, because it turns out our original version might be worse than the alternative.
Yes, imo it's better to have a one design direction that represents the best form of devs' vision, even if it brings in less players, rather than having 2 subpar versions that not only split the playerbase but also split the dev time for each and increase the costs of upkeep of both.
Yeah. It would not be as much of a challenge for the devs if the world were static instead of progressive.
Already enough of a considerable challenge since all of the servers will already progress differently.
A server with Corruption turned off and everyone a Non-Combatant would probably progress considerably faster than the other servers with the current ruleset.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
No, it's because having PvP built into the underpinnings of a game's systems and simply adding bacon to a sandwich aren't analogous. Ashes is elementally an OW PvP game, it's not added in like a condiment. The bacon is baked into the bread, the grease covers the entire kitchen, including the cutting boards the lettuce and tomatoes are sliced on. So, I'm not saying you can't pick whatever you want out of your BLT to make it vegetarian, I'm just saying you're not going to be served a BLT without bacon.
A PvE server could work.
It would just be too much effort for the devs to keep it working alongside the PvP servers.
I don't care for PvP. But i understand that it will be part of the game. Maybe look more into the game before you post
Not sure why you would play Ashes if you don't care about PvP at all seeing as it is 80% of the game.
But it's not. I'm quite certain you can play a big part of the game, without PvP, or atleast open world PvP. Sieges is another thing. That is more like battlegrounds, plus i would proberly only do siege, if it was to defend a node i was part of. I don't have to attack someone that takes i resource i wanted. I have played mmo's where only 1 person could harvest a resource. I don't have to be part of caravans. I can level my character(s). Do crafting/gathering/refining, without having to do pvp. Dungeons, raids. I don't see how you can say it's 80% of the game. Plus I have said before, i'm not sure the game is for me. I'll give it a try, and see how it is
The 80/20 split refers to instanced content. There is a small amount of pure PvE content in the game. The vast majority of PvE content has major PvP aspects, making that content PvX. PvP content does not have major PvE content. Node/castle sieges are not PvE, Caravans are not PvE, Arenas are not PvE. I would also say open world ganking and naval combat are not PvE but that might not be true.
If you only want to PvP, Ashes can provide that for you, sure you need to get to max level but most hardcore players will be able to do that within a couple weeks or at the very least a single month. I don't count leveling as a very large part of the game when MMOs are meant to be played for months/years.
If you only want to PvE, it might be possible, but you are very likely going to be forced to PvP seeing as all the important PvE content is also PvP orientated.
If the combat feels really deep, I'll probably spend more than 80% of my time doing arenas. There is genuinely zero PvE involved in that so even if I hate PvE, I can still enjoy the game. But if a player hates PvP? What content is there for them to do? Instanced dungeons that don't even provide good loot?
I don't agree with this. Questing, doing dungeons, gather, refine, craft have nothing to do with PvP, if people don't attack you. Just because a dungeon isn't in a instance, doesn't mean it doesn't count as PvE. And i recall Steven said, it will take a while, for the average player, to reach max level. The game isn't as PvP focused as you seem to think. If it was, it couldn't have the corruption system
But if a player hates PvP? What content is there for them to do? Instanced dungeons that don't even provide good loot?
Many of my friends are curious of this project, and said they could give a try.
Also, large part of them dislike PvP...
Solution ? i honestly said to them "this game will be open world PvP, no instance PvE content, you will dislike the game" . They won't play it. is it a tragedy ? no.
Did you tell them about the corruption system, which should lower the amount of open world PvP? But unless Intrepid has changed their mind, there will be instanced dungeons. Just not that many, 20%
I would love to hear Steven's reasons for why a PVE server wouldn't work. He talks a lot about how corruption is supposed to make player killing rare, but player killing must be important for his vision. Otherwise, why allow it at all?
I came up with some reasons for why people might be killed. I'm wondering which ones are intended and which ones are supposed to be prevented/discouraged by corruption.
-Killing someone whenever they travel with a fully-loaded mule
-Killing someone for the opportunity to harvest a rare resource or fight a rare spawn
-Killing someone to prevent them from harvesting/grinding in your area
-Killing someone who is trying to obtain a siege scroll for your node
-Killing someone whenever they enter a dungeon you're farming
-Killing someone for roleplay reasons (e.g., hating orcs)
-Killing someone repeatedly to prevent them from leveling up a node that's competing with yours
-Killing someone repeatedly to reduce competition for housing in your area
I would love to hear Steven's reasons for why a PVE server wouldn't work. He talks a lot about how corruption is supposed to make player killing rare, but player killing must be important for his vision. Otherwise, why allow it at all?
I came up with some reasons for why people might be killed. I'm wondering which ones are intended and which ones are supposed to be prevented/discouraged by corruption.
-Killing someone whenever they travel with a fully-loaded mule
-Killing someone for the opportunity to harvest a rare resource or fight a rare spawn
-Killing someone to prevent them from harvesting/grinding in your area
-Killing someone who is trying to obtain a siege scroll for your node
-Killing someone whenever they enter a dungeon you're farming
-Killing someone for roleplay reasons (e.g., hating orcs)
-Killing someone repeatedly to prevent them from leveling up a node that's competing with yours
-Killing someone repeatedly to reduce competition for housing in your area
What has come up a lot, is "risk vs reward". But also the game is ment to have conflict. Nodes gets build. Some might destroy it, because they want to build their own
This is my view on it. There are various aspects that isn't for me, but others want. I will give the game a try, and if it isn't for me, i'll just quit. Simple as that. Steven has also said the game won't be for everyone.
I have reached the point, where i'm not looking for "the last game i'll every play". It's entertainment for a time.
I would love to hear Steven's reasons for why a PVE server wouldn't work. He talks a lot about how corruption is supposed to make player killing rare, but player killing must be important for his vision. Otherwise, why allow it at all?
I came up with some reasons for why people might be killed. I'm wondering which ones are intended and which ones are supposed to be prevented/discouraged by corruption.
-Killing someone whenever they travel with a fully-loaded mule
-Killing someone for the opportunity to harvest a rare resource or fight a rare spawn
-Killing someone to prevent them from harvesting/grinding in your area
-Killing someone who is trying to obtain a siege scroll for your node
-Killing someone whenever they enter a dungeon you're farming
-Killing someone for roleplay reasons (e.g., hating orcs)
-Killing someone repeatedly to prevent them from leveling up a node that's competing with yours
-Killing someone repeatedly to reduce competition for housing in your area
Also
-Killing someone whenever they exit a dungeon with rare drops from it
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
No, it's because having PvP built into the underpinnings of a game's systems and simply adding bacon to a sandwich aren't analogous. Ashes is elementally an OW PvP game, it's not added in like a condiment. The bacon is baked into the bread, the grease covers the entire kitchen, including the cutting boards the lettuce and tomatoes are sliced on. So, I'm not saying you can't pick whatever you want out of your BLT to make it vegetarian, I'm just saying you're not going to be served a BLT without bacon.
A PvE server could work.
It would just be too much effort for the devs to keep it working alongside the PvP servers.
Would be a different game though, with risk provided only by how the developers balance the NPCs who kill players. Players would demand NPCs to be nerfed and be upset if developers don't do that. Basically the risk vs reward would be tuned down, would become predictable and the game would reward those players who resist well to mindless grinding, and those who can team up with any strangers they meet using dungen finder tools which brings them together form multiple servers. Who plays such PvE games years long?
On a PvP server, players are typically upset on other players and only indirectly upon the developer, for choosing to create a PvP game. The only disadvantage is the difficulty to merge servers and preserve the political balance. But having two continents separated by a large PvP area, makes this easier as the players on low population servers might group on one continent only, where they have a lvl 6 metropolis.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Comments
1. Who wants to do Caravans when it turns on PvP? Better to use Mules and do multiple round trips for safety since PvP is not turned on in the open world.
2. Who cares about auction houses when you can gather everything on your own without any possible interruptions?
3. Who wants to store their items in a Node's warehouse or a house or a Freehold when they can be destroyed in a siege? Better to keep them all on your alts in the open world since no one can kill you.
You say the game can be designed in the exact same way and yet with only these 3 points, a PvE server will completely destroy the game's core designs and gameplay mechanics. This game is built around those PvP gameplay systems first and foremost (Nodes). If there isn't any risks involved for players to keep anything in their Nodes, they won't care about Nodes.
PvP is not built into the underpinning of every single part of Ashes of Creation. When you are doing a quest at level 10, the possibility of being ganked by another player is not core to that experience. It's core to the experience a PvPer wants specifically. PvP is core to a lot of systems and that's why I say what I say in the next part of my post...
I'd prefer your own argument rather than just posting someone else's YouTube video but I'll respond to it anyway.
The guy in that video is making claims of what a PvE server must be. He is not accounting for the fact a PvE server can have all the things he says it can't have.
Literally the minimum requirement for a PvE server, is disabling optional PvP.
A PvE server could be as simple as no Open World PvP outside of content such as dungeons, caravans, worldbosses, raids, etc...
People who PvP at that content can be corrupted and bounty hunters can go kill them.
Obviously there would be less corruption, and less bounty hunting, but that's also because PvE players wouldn't even want that in the first place. If they wanted that they would just play on a PvP server.
Now there are a million ways you could set up a PvE server, some requiring more effort and some requiring less effort, if you want to argue how much effort should be put in we can argue that but currently we're just arguing the actual concept of a PvE server.
nice meme
1. Being able to transport 10x the resources at a faster speed might still be useful. If you know a resource is being bought for a high price on the other side of the world, taking 10x longer to get there could drastically lower your profits. But it totally could be the case that caravans are never used which would be an issue.
I think the only catchall answer to that would be enabling PvP for players with a certain amount of goods, or possibly the fastest trade routes have PvP enabled. Again my definition of a PvE server is disabling optional PvP not all PvP.
2. Auction houses are still used in PvE servers in other MMOs. Also because of how the artisan specialization works you'd still need to rely on other players for things. You can't gather everything on your own.
3. That applies to PvP servers as well, you can't kill an alt if they are logged out.
I agree. Where we disagree is that you think Ashes of Creation still exists in that defined state, and I don't.
Yeah that's fair. But I don't see how that matters when you wouldn't ever experience that state. If a BLT isn't a BLT without bacon, who cares? You still get to have your BLT with bacon.
I agree that you don’t see it. That’s two things we agree on. We’re almost BFFs. 🤗
You intentionally create the topics in a controversial way. That is your real objective.
No I'm genuinely bad at expression and communication lol
I need to quote this for future reference
The first point he says is "no corruption so no Bounty Hunter"
The first thing... You just didnt watch video.
You would say "for PvE boys, bh is not an interesting thing, right
But what about the FFA areas : high seas, and node's ruins ?
For the high seas there will be content, and so, on PvP servers it would be a FFA PvP, and on PvE servers it would be no PvP, two totally different game there again.
You will say "force flag people for high sea" ... You REALLY think that PvE fan of the game won't do post again and again, megathread or spam of threads to have this removed on PvE servers ?
Sure devs don't have to follow every idea in forums even the most supported one... and there is no bad buzz right ? Because people will feel ignored, despised if they see that this highly popular request is not listened...
By screaming its grefing, its anti social, its not fun bla bla bla.
If AoC \ Intrepid ever change the PvP flaging and\ or the death penalty like XP loss or loot drop`s am going to delete my account in a instant. The risk vs reward and PvP is what makes Ashes GREAT.
Will the population that's left provide intrepid with a big enough pot to keep servers running and development going? Who knows, we sure as shit know fuck all at the moment. All I know is, if the unfortunate scenario unfolds that the game is unsustainable due to its core design, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles, but atleast the stalwart community members that wanted absolutely no change to the design of the games PvP systems or the introduction of PvE servers will get a good few years of playing a great PvP experience and at best we can PvP to our hearts content for years to come! Crowfall & MO2 released in 2021 right? If they're shut down by the time AOC releases then maybe their combined total of 3k daily players will join us in AOC 😊
I did watch the video. My answer for the first point is the same as every other point. If PvP has to be enabled for some content, then enable it. That has literally nothing to do what I'm talking about. I said all a PvE server needs to be is less PvP than a PvP server.
You said that I would say "bounty hunting is not interesting for PvE players."
It could still be interesting, but it wouldn't be the preferred content, that goes for all PVP content.
"You REALLY think that PvE fan of the game won't do post again and again, megathread or spam of threads to have this removed on PvE servers?"
People can post whatever they want on a forum, so no, that doesn't bother me.
Sure devs don't have to follow every idea in forums even the most supported one... and there is no bad buzz right ? Because people will feel ignored, despised if they see that this highly popular request is not listened...
Isn't this the entire point of Ashes of Creation? That Steven is going to make the game he wants to make regardless? Have you lost faith in the entire point of this project?
People get so triggered when you talk about things they don't want in the game, as if a forum post is actually going to somehow add it to the game lol.
I'm arguing about PvE servers, not because I think they'll be added, because I know that they wont. I'm arguing about PvE servers because there is an argument to be made for them. Instead of an echo chamber where everyone repeats the same copium mantras to themselves, I prefer to talk about things people disagree with, because it's more interesting.
Who's trying to change the game? I couldn't find them.
So far I haven't actually seen a single argument for changing PvP flagging, death penalties or loot drops. Could you quote what you're referring to?
Guy makes a thread called pve servers and says something like this. You can't make this trolling up.
If don't understand something, you could try to understand it. If you don't even want to attempt to understand what other people think I'm not sure why you'd even bother commenting. That's what I would call trolling.
You are literarily not understanding what people are telling you here and then saying they make more money with pve servers, which everyone has already told you they are aware of how to be chasing the money in a mmorpg...Then you go in circles
Already enough of a considerable challenge since all of the servers will already progress differently.
A server with Corruption turned off and everyone a Non-Combatant would probably progress considerably faster than the other servers with the current ruleset.
It would just be too much effort for the devs to keep it working alongside the PvP servers.
There, shut up, please stop.
I don't agree with this. Questing, doing dungeons, gather, refine, craft have nothing to do with PvP, if people don't attack you. Just because a dungeon isn't in a instance, doesn't mean it doesn't count as PvE. And i recall Steven said, it will take a while, for the average player, to reach max level. The game isn't as PvP focused as you seem to think. If it was, it couldn't have the corruption system
Did you tell them about the corruption system, which should lower the amount of open world PvP? But unless Intrepid has changed their mind, there will be instanced dungeons. Just not that many, 20%
I came up with some reasons for why people might be killed. I'm wondering which ones are intended and which ones are supposed to be prevented/discouraged by corruption.
-Killing someone whenever they travel with a fully-loaded mule
-Killing someone for the opportunity to harvest a rare resource or fight a rare spawn
-Killing someone to prevent them from harvesting/grinding in your area
-Killing someone who is trying to obtain a siege scroll for your node
-Killing someone whenever they enter a dungeon you're farming
-Killing someone for roleplay reasons (e.g., hating orcs)
-Killing someone repeatedly to prevent them from leveling up a node that's competing with yours
-Killing someone repeatedly to reduce competition for housing in your area
What has come up a lot, is "risk vs reward". But also the game is ment to have conflict. Nodes gets build. Some might destroy it, because they want to build their own
I have reached the point, where i'm not looking for "the last game i'll every play". It's entertainment for a time.
-Killing someone whenever they exit a dungeon with rare drops from it
Would be a different game though, with risk provided only by how the developers balance the NPCs who kill players. Players would demand NPCs to be nerfed and be upset if developers don't do that. Basically the risk vs reward would be tuned down, would become predictable and the game would reward those players who resist well to mindless grinding, and those who can team up with any strangers they meet using dungen finder tools which brings them together form multiple servers. Who plays such PvE games years long?
On a PvP server, players are typically upset on other players and only indirectly upon the developer, for choosing to create a PvP game. The only disadvantage is the difficulty to merge servers and preserve the political balance. But having two continents separated by a large PvP area, makes this easier as the players on low population servers might group on one continent only, where they have a lvl 6 metropolis.