Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
If they're going to create this land management system, that can kinda be used offensively by enemy guilds, enemy nodes, and this is the key part, unguilded and un-noded players, you need a way to fight back against it. If your only recourse is corruption system killing, especially against the unguilded and un-noded, that doesn't seem tenable to me. Maybe I'm missing something though.
I may be misreading some of what Steven said, but my impression coming away from this stream is that the corruption system is going to be harsh...hella harsh. Even if it ends up being on the more lenient side (fat chance) how would you be able to keep constantly defending your resources against unguilded and un-noded players? It's like built in karma bombing. What am I missing?
I will take a bit of a roundabout way to land my answer so bear with me. Here it comes.
The thing is I think less interesting player stories will happen without something different for fighting off people purposely over harvesting a node.
Sure you can PK them and get corruption.. Then that person can just come right back and start gathering. Meanwhile you're off working off your corruption.
I just don't think PKing those people would be worth it for anybody... would people not just follow suit and overharvest another node on purpose for revenge?
You can risk losing your gear by fighting people off of the resources on your land, or just go to that persons node and use up the resources there.. And if they're mad about it and kill you they go corrupt. Just sounds like a win/win to the people purposely harvesting scarce resources... and sucks to be the other guys.
So yeah, I guess we just disagree where good stories would be more likely to be made. Fair enough.
This shit is really starting to seem more and more abusable by the minute.
Yeah the lvl 1 gatherer meme would make it all worse, but even that is not required. Max level players, either un guilded, or un-noded can just keep coming back. You lose more killing them every time, going deeper and deeper red.
And this is all just assuming that the guild war declaration and node war declaration system will be free flowing and pretty unrestricted. If it's not, if it's overly burdensome to declare wars, then even those players will be an issue with this system.
But assuming those players are not an issue, unguilded and un-noded would still very much so be an issue, no matter their character level. Unless I'm missing something here.
He started answering to people that said "other games have used such flagging systems but they werent successful deterrents" and he started giving reasons why the AoC system will work. As soon as he said "combat stats reduction" I was like "not again.. not again... STEVEN!! Just say that people should look at the bigger picture!! Just say that reaching max lv in AoC, or getting competitive gear wont be as ez as people are used in todays mmos!! Just focus on the true strong argument about why ppl wont go red. Not only because of the loss of items, but because these lost items WONT BE EZ TO REPLACE!! Come on.. enough with the stat weakening. Big picture Steven!! Those other mmos that had some flagging system (except L2) had ez lv up, had ez gearing up, had teleports and ez respawns. Big picture Steven!! AoC has many interlinked systems that support each other. All the philosophies combines make it things meaningful, that can't be thrown away just to have some griefing fun for a big, without lasting consequences. That's what happens in the other games that did away with real achievements, and make the gameplay to finish, and relied on lame tasks like "collect this fish by easily cliking the fishing action, then collect the next, fish, oh you have 200 fish, now you are a master angler. Now let's do colors. Now let's do mounts; dont worry about losing, you will easily game the achievement, it's just a matter of time without any other opposing force."
In AoC people won't risk losing their HARD EARNED GEAR just to pk many random people, or for some lame raw mats percentage. Big picture. Complete picture.
People should look at the bigger picture. People should somehow start holding on to more information and use that information that has been given over the years IF they want to contribute. People should look at the bigger picture and understand that enemy resource thiefs:
1 will have to spend time traveling to the victim node through a world with tough open world mobs
2 people will have to spend hours doing a lame activity, and that requires dedication and organization
in order to effectively harvest a node critical resources you will need a lot of GOOD gatherers who may not be willing to engage in the ultimate goal of attacking a node which they may not consider as an enemy
3 will eventually need to spend a lot of time in creating a node siege declaration scroll, and if that's not the goal why even go to such an effort
It will be hard to achieve all that and coordinate ENOUGH players dedicated to ruin a nodes resources. The numbers of the 'griefers' wont be big. They can be dealt with. Even if such thing destruction happens at this point, it would be something to admire, not code to prevent. It would be such a historic gameplay that defenders would WANT to become a Red hero and become famous, not something that they see as an joyless task. In a few words such an event will be hard to happen in the scale that people are afraid off, and if it does it will make for good gameplay. Most of the times it wont be anything close to what people are afraid of. It will be just 10 or some nabs, trying to grief and they will get PKed in no time and sent home.
Big picture. Dont sweat the small things.
I sure as hell hope Intrepid has some solutions to this and Steven just forgot to mention those (or I might've missed them? gonna rewatch it later).
Ye, not everybody wants to spend all day trying to destroy your precious little node. Get over your self. People have other things to do that chopping down your trees all day long. How much more discussions is this ridiculous topic worth?
Yes, people have to come together and work their way over the content.
Bot aspirant gatheres should be treated as NPCs and killed on sight.
Everybody should be praising their local hero PK, protecting the woods, the mineral riches and all your node's fauna.
tbh i dont really care about the land. im just arguing because combat, my favorite thing to do after building my char, was punished by a system and possibly by is, but other players playstyles isnt.
if you declare war and they dont accept it, can you still kill them without consequences?
My reaction woul be going to another node and declare war against them and kill everybody I see.
Way to go my friend, stop this carebearing!
In L2 a guild declaring war on another could kill their victims without going red. The victim guild could either surrender and lose valuable guild points, or declar war and reduce losses upon death.
It would be stupid to do nothing, they would just get killed and the attacking guild had no risks.
Strong guilds would abuse that. Victim guilds would form official alliances and kick the aggressors ass. The agressor would form an alliance and big balanced wars would start and maybe finish at some point.
Well since Steven played L2 wouldnt he take its good ideas?
Yup!
What the devs have to do is giving us tools to fight people.
The carebears are a menace against good games, they just relentlessly want to farm gold like a bunch of self-entitled botters who demand being protected while doing so.
The guild then uses the scroll and now the node citizens have to go to other nodes to get all of those resources. But all the others nodes are not interested in destroying their own ecosystems so they block the intruders to the best of their ability.
If that original node has allied nodes - the guild can just go farm out their lands too. Because again, for a big enough guild that's not a problem at all. I dunno if you've played on mid-high rate private servers of L2, but even on those more relaxed servers I managed to make my guildies make several alts for several bosses and then use them to farm said bosses. This was in semi-casual guilds of big size too. And, in theory, AoC's guilds wouldn't even need to level up those alts, because "you see a tree - you chop a tree".
And so after all of that, you have yourself an unprotected node about to get sieged by a big guild (which might also have allies). And that node couldn't really do anything about it, because PKing dozens of lvl1s would put them so fucking deep in XP debt that their chars would no longer exist.
There's a chance that the victim node might try buying all the required mats in other nodes and tries to transfer them, which will then lead to the attacking guild raiding those caravans and benefiting even more from the whole situation.
Imo that sounds like shitty design with 0 risk for a ton of reward, while also bordering on bullying the victim (though that's highly debatable).
you didnt watch the dev stream did you?
It seems you missing some bits of important information.
If you go to another node then you will need a mule or a caravan and risk being attacked that way too, not just ganks, but by guild wars and caravan assaults. Also the time spent on this will be much bigger.
Also if you over harvest an area then it will happen land deterioration, so people comming to harvest fauna and flora in your node will actually turn your node into a sterile node... then how will you keep it from deleveling?
Also if your neighbours just farm stuff over and over they will get richer than you and create problems for you... they could also fully harvest your stuff before a siege and ruin your defense preparations.
If there's land management, then there must be land managers!
You are over exaggerate:
willingness of gatherer/crafter playerbase to grief is this form
amount of such skilled gatherers that will coordinate to such task
the amount of time that the above players will willingly spent doing such a monotonous activity
probability rare and furthermore the success rate of these events.
This hole topic is a non-issue.
Spending one evening to completely fuck up some node's ecosystem is literally nothing to an even semi-coordinated big guild. They'll just make alts and go gather everything they see in the target node.
The only thing that could stop this is a huge lvl gate on gathering resources, which would go directly against the ability to become an artisan from the lowest lvls. There's a small chance that nodes will only have some super high quality resources that can only be farmed by high lvl artisans, but I doubt that'll be the case.
If anything, your suggestion of "just PK them" would take so much more coordination amongst plain neighbors rather than already coordinated guildmates.
It's not the gatherer/crafter playerbase doing it, it's an organized node force or guild that would be doing this to a rival node. And they could do it on unguilded, un-noded alts, theoretically. Or on their mains, if they have reason to believe you can't war dec them.
I wouldn't call the topic a non-issue. But we're probably debating it prematurely. Because there's just too many things we don't know about yet to even have a real foundation for a debate.
True, but the basis of my point was that it doesn't matter because people can't keep killing you and going further red. So even on your main, conceivably, you wouldn't get much XP debt anyway. But yeah, ideally you'd want to do this on as low level an alt as possible.
Even a mechanic like letting people plant seeds in a forest to account for over-gathering would work. I just think the added open world PvP would be fun.
Node A, Citizen A - chopping trees takes 10 hits, yields 100 lumber
Node B, Citizen B - Invades Node A, chopping trees takes 3 hits only, yields 30 lumber.
They have a reason to invade, to start the respawn timer on your node, but they dont get the full yield, since they are doing sloopy work chopping a tree down quickly as possible. (we can call this also land management - someone who is considerate and took the time to chop a tree down proper for maximum result)
Amazing how people will come up with all these convoluted ways the corruption system will be exploited, but simply taking a 200 person force and chopping down trees in a node is just unthinkable.
Can’t wait to make it meta lmao.