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Make Gathering Griefers Auto-Flag

GoalidGoalid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Just trying to get ahead on this topic. If it's possible to harm another node by stripping all their resources, there should be a system to fight back against that. Currently, you'd have to go corrupt in order to stop a bot or an enemy-node gatherer. That's just not right!

I think the mayor should be able to place down policies to protect their node's resources. If you're trying to chop down all my wood before a siege, the mayor should be able to either hold a vote or use emergency powers to temporarily flag anyone purple for trying to gather specific resources.
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Comments

  • Would be too basic and simple to just flag players.
    Maybe gatherers could gain a positive reputation toward the node for which they harvest and a negative one toward the one they pillage. And that reputation to have consequences.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Guild wars should solve this issue, enemy of the state as well

    If sieged you are also auto declared on
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Sieges#cite_note-siege_alliances.png-29
  • Could also have the Mayor of the node implement a "only residents" can harvest on the node. If they aren't a resident then they could auto flag. Would also make your choice of home node matter a bit more.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I'd agree with Strevi's suggestion of reputation based mechanics and they could maybe tie into the Enemy of the State mechanic or Node War one. Maybe make it easier to declare both/either of those things if players of your node catch an "intruder" overfarming your stuff. And players should have a streamlined way to indicate such intruders to their mayor.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I would say if a system had to be implemented to negate that sort of griefing, make it where if you gather too much in a certain amount of time, you become corrupted, or honestly even just become a combatant. Just able to be dealt with via PVP. Could even have it where if you gather outside of your home Node ZOI, you become flagged as a combatant. But thats assuming its actually necessary due to people turning the world into a barren landscape
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Gathering is an allowed profession in Ashes, @Goalid.

    In other words, nobody is fooled by you calling players (who choose to gather in another node) "griefers".

    Giving the Mayor unilateral control over resources are you??

    That doesn't entice other Forum-goers into having a meaningful discussion with you. Especially when it removes the "corruption" mechanic that's core to the game.

    Will there be bots in Ashes?

    We'll see how that plays out in Alpha 2 testing ... but I'm sure Intrepid has a plan.
  • No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

    Don't be a Tulnar! :D
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    Guild wars should solve this issue

    you would have to accept the war.

    i agree, gathering should flag players for a small amount of time
  • Mopy KingMopy King Member, Alpha Two
    I'm hoping with the mayor being able to order certain gatherables to be left alone if they are scarce, that it'll come with a system that will put some sort of auto bounty on players harvesting that item.

    I don't think corruption is needed per se as they probably shouldn't lose gear for it, but something that just allows node citizens to track down anyone breaking this "law" and kill the player without gaining corruption of any kind. Maybe just guarantee that the player gathering the stuff ordered to not be gathered would automatically drop their entire stock of it, or some of it being replanted immediately??..
    I'd go against any kind of real bounty reward otherwise from mayor or anything like that as it would probably be abused easily by using alts to break law and killing them for bounty money.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I cant believe what I am reading.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Gathering is an allowed profession in Ashes, @Goalid.

    In other words, nobody is fooled by you calling players (who choose to gather in another node) "griefers".

    Giving the Mayor unilateral control over resources are you??

    That doesn't entice other Forum-goers into having a meaningful discussion with you. Especially when it removes the "corruption" mechanic that's core to the game.

    Will there be bots in Ashes?

    We'll see how that plays out in Alpha 2 testing ... but I'm sure Intrepid has a plan.

    i disagree with the mayor having too much control. with that being said:

    combat and ow pvp are also allowed mechanics in aoc. so why put restrictions onto one but not onto another (gathering in this case).

    when you grief, you are just killing other players withotu really gaining anything in return, other than the pleasure of making someone ragequit. you can make the case for constantly following asmongold around and killing him over and over so that he quits, and then this would reduce the queue times in that server, and also will make the server less laggy where he is, since his minions will quit with him. however, this is considered griefing and harrassment.

    you can fight another player for a farming spot, or mob drop them as part of your fighting strategy. then you get to progress in that spot while they have to go somewhere else, this isnt griefing. you can also kill someone else gathering because you want that precious mithril for yourself. but when you just start killing people over and over, following them around, not letting them play the game, while you are also not gaining anything in return (any progression) that is called griefing. you can argue that you still get experience and also some materials from the other player corpse, but its still considered griefing or harassment.

    now, lets apply the same logic to gathering. there might be resources that spawn only in a specific, or very few areas, so naturally, there will be conflict for those resources. cool, no problem here. player agency, risk vs reward, land management, etc. but when you constantly go to someone elses land just to devastate it and ruin it, to prevent them from progressing and not being able to gather anything themselves, isnt that griefing? sure you can argue that you gain materials (not in all cases, what if you kill all the rabbits and you arent even a hunter, you exterminate the rabbit populations and then the wolves go somewhere else, and then you ruin the land and ecosystem for other players), but this is the same as arguing that you are making the game more stable by getting rid of big streamers, or you are getting exp and leveling by following one player around and killing them over and over.

    the open world pvp system kind of lets you fight back against this. except you can take an army of zergs and just go gather in someone elses land, you dont even have to flag. you can just decimate someone elses land even if you dont really need the materials, just so that they cant progress, and because you will all be green, the only thing the land owners can do is pk, putting themselves at huge risk. plus if you die gathering, it doesnt matter. you can come back and ruin someone elses land and on top of that, karma bomb them. this constitues as griefing. so tell me again why one group of players should be punished for griefing but not the other? double standards much?

    players complain about big guilds locking down an aream to farm it themselves, or an entrance to a dungeon (or the dungeon itself) because other players wont be able to access the content temporarily, but no one is gonna complain about big guilds doing the same thing to the land? locking down land farming it and ruin it and blocking everybody from accessing content.

    another reason why a pve server is a bad idea. you wouldnt even be able to prevent these players to overgather in an area if you cant kill them (unless you overgather yourself, thus ruining the land anyways).

    i personally like this land management system. but i agree that there should be a risk asociated with it. there should be a away to deter people from ruining someone elses land.
  • Mopy KingMopy King Member, Alpha Two
    No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

    If there were no systems "antagonizing" human behavior, then child labor would still be legal everywhere.
    Human behavior at it's worst should be antagonized to some degree.
    If a group of people can completely nuke a node's future resource supply with little to no risk, and there is no way for node citizens to fight against it without going corrupt... that's a pretty glaring issue. I highly doubt that there won't be some sort of system put in place to disincentivize such actions.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Mopy King wrote: »
    No. Stop trying to make up systems to antagonize human behaviour.

    If there were no systems "antagonizing" human behavior, then child labor would still be legal everywhere.
    Human behavior at it's worst should be antagonized to some degree.
    If a group of people can completely nuke a node's future resource supply with little to no risk, and there is no way for node citizens to fight against it without going corrupt... that's a pretty glaring issue. I highly doubt that there won't be some sort of system put in place to disincentivize such actions.
    ...... ............
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Spare me the pseudo philisophies. How is this relevant to changing this open world mmo into scripted gameplay sessions?

    If you are worried about people gathering in your area go and PK them. Your problem. Dont flag them because they will be an incovenience to you.

    Same thing with leveling up. If somebody is taking mobs near me I pk him. It's my problem. I dont expect tje devs to autoflag him because he takes away my potential xp.

    People kepp asking for things that are to THEIR BENEFIT. Not the benefit of the game. THEIR COMFORT.
    How can you even type stuff like that and not expect to be told off?
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    If people can take out your weak-ass node by fvking gathering, how do you expect to beat them in actual pvp? They are better than you, more organized, get over it instead of crying for help.

    Such proposals will hurt EVERYONE BUT the "gRiefERs". It will just hurt people exploring and playing away from their nodes. You know, adventuring?

    "Child labour".... what are you talking about son?
  • Mopy KingMopy King Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Spare me the psedo philosophies. How is that relevant to trying to change this open world mmo into scripted gameplay sessions?

    How is it not? The worst of human behavior is already being "antagonized" by the corruption system in game.
    People from one node going en mass into another to reap all their resources dry and leaving isn't something I want gone from the game. But the citizens of that node just having outsiders come in to take all their resources and bounce, and not having any decent way to counteract that besides doing the exact same thing to them.... is pretty bland.

    Over gathering another node on purpose isn't on the same level of griefing as PKing someone repeatedly sure, but it's still a kind of griefing. Without some way for the node citizens to fight back without going corrupt that just destroys the risk v reward aspect of it all. Where is the risk for sucking a node's resources dry otherwise? No risk all benefit, who wants that?
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Why is everybody asking for safeguards at the prospect of defeat? Why?

    Ye, just like I said in another topic, people want losing to be optional.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    If people can take out your weak-ass node by fvking gathering, how do you expect to beat them in actual pvp? They are better than you, more organized, get over it instead of crying for help.

    Such proposals will hurt EVERYONE BUT the "gRiefERs". It will just hurt people ecploring and playing away from their nodes.
    Doesn't take much organization to tell your big guild to "just go cut down trees in this node so that they can't make defenses for the siege" and then repeat the same thing to your nodemates so that the situation couldn't be resolved with a guild war.

    PKing dozens if not hundreds of people over and over and over again seems like character suicide rather than a logical solution to the attack on the node.
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Yeah I dont think we need to auto flag players just for gathering. If you have a problem make a public announcement that players caught farming x will be attacked on sight and if they have a guild will be declared war on. They already seem to have enough tools planned to address this.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Yeah I dont think we need to auto flag players just for gathering. If you have a problem make a public announcement that players caught farming x will be attacked on sight and if they have a guild will be declared war on. They already seem to have enough tools planned to address this.
    Which is exactly why I think that node reputation linked with node wars and Enemy of the State mechanics would be a good solution. Those systems are already in place and you just need to make the combination process a bit more streamlined than it might already be and you have yourself a great way to counter an aggressive gathering action.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Mopy King wrote: »
    Spare me the psedo philosophies. How is that relevant to trying to change this open world mmo into scripted gameplay sessions?

    How is it not? The worst of human behavior is already being "antagonized" by the corruption system in game.
    People from one node going en mass into another to reap all their resources dry and leaving isn't something I want gone from the game. But the citizens of that node just having outsiders come in to take all their resources and bounce, and not having any decent way to counteract that besides doing the exact same thing to them.... is pretty bland.

    Over gathering another node on purpose isn't on the same level of griefing as PKing someone repeatedly sure, but it's still a kind of griefing. Without some way for the node citizens to fight back without going corrupt that just destroys the risk v reward aspect of it all. Where is the risk for sucking a node's resources dry otherwise? No risk all benefit, who wants that?

    man stop bringing in serious real life issues in a video game discussion, and then expect people to node their heads solemnly and say "yes.. exactly". When will these loose and incorrect comparisons end in this forum?
  • Goalid wrote: »
    Just trying to get ahead on this topic. If it's possible to harm another node by stripping all their resources, there should be a system to fight back against that. Currently, you'd have to go corrupt in order to stop a bot or an enemy-node gatherer. That's just not right!

    I think the mayor should be able to place down policies to protect their node's resources. If you're trying to chop down all my wood before a siege, the mayor should be able to either hold a vote or use emergency powers to temporarily flag anyone purple for trying to gather specific resources.

    Yes, it is very worrysome that griefing will come through PVE.
    Asmongold perfectly explains this in his videos and he is a PVE griefer himself.

    When you can't freely engage people they take that as a tool to harm you in many ways and deny content from you.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    its true. maybe auto flagging isnt the solution. or maybe it is. i dont know, ill leave that to the devs since they are the only ones with all the information about the game. but there is a deterrent for people to attack someone over and over for no reason. by the same token, there should be a deterrent for people to destroy someone elses land (example, coe was gonna have a crime system, but the game never came out :D).

    hit max level, equip trash gear and mass suicide on another territory and gather/hunt everything. you get all the rewards with no risks. the defenders will have to be perma red and probably wont even be able to lose karma since the mobs wont even be spawning.
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    Let's ask the developers to add features to the game to protect me from my enemies.
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  • Mopy KingMopy King Member, Alpha Two
    man stop bringing in serious real life issues in a video game discussion, and then expect people to node their heads solemnly and say "yes.. exactly". When will these loose and incorrect comparisons end in this forum?

    Ok?? You started the talk with antagonizing human behavior but sure lets keep it purely game.

    Just tell me why you think it's fine for a group of people use up another nodes resources without the other node having any decent way to fight back outside of killing them and gaining corruption? Why do you want near zero risk for the people taking another nodes resources? Is risk vs reward not something you want?

    I'm not trying to argue stubbornly for one specific system like auto flagging.. I don't care.. just something.. How you find that ridiculous is just odd to me.
  • BaSkA13 wrote: »
    Let's ask the developers to add features to the game to protect me from my enemies.

    Then I will ask to add as feature the ability to tickle to death! :naughty:
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    BaSkA13 wrote: »
    Let's ask the developers to add features to the game to protect me from my enemies.

    thats literally what they did with the corruption penalties and stat dampening :D
    drop the sarcasm.

    my point is, its unfair that the system and also customer support punishes pvpers (notice how i said system and cs, basically intrepid, not other players) but another group of players get a free pass from intrepid, and the only way to deter them is by engaging in the systems that will get me punished in the same place.

    if joe comes to my land and tries to chop all the trees down and i kill him over and over and follow him around and dont allow him to chop a single tree, then the game mechanics punish me and also he might report me for harassment and i get an aditional punishment from intrepid. how is that fair for me? im simply trying to not let joe ruin my land through the land management system. if joe leaves my land i wont pursue him, nevermind that ill probably be too busy trying to cleanse all the corruption i got, plus other players might kill me and i lose my gear
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    nevermind that ill probably be too busy trying to cleanse all the corruption i got, plus other players might kill me and i lose my gear
    I can definitely see how this system will be one of the main PK baits in the game, if there's no other way to counter aggressive gatherers.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Mopy King wrote: »
    man stop bringing in serious real life issues in a video game discussion, and then expect people to node their heads solemnly and say "yes.. exactly". When will these loose and incorrect comparisons end in this forum?

    Ok?? You started the talk with antagonizing human behavior but sure lets keep it purely game.

    Just tell me why you think it's fine for a group of people use up another nodes resources without the other node having any decent way to fight back outside of killing them and gaining corruption? Why do you want near zero risk for the people taking another nodes resources? Is risk vs reward not something you want?

    I'm not trying to argue stubbornly for one specific system like auto flagging.. I don't care.. just something.. How you find that ridiculous is just odd to me.

    Your decent way is go fight them. You are a node community? Talk to each other. Establish that you PK intruders. Then all together go and burn off the corruption with the sabotouers gone.
    Some of you might act trecherously, and attack your communities heroic PKers. Heal them. Protect them. You will turn purple for healing your Red heroes. The traitors might flag on your healers. Fair game take them out then.

    Wonderful human stories. So much better than npc questing (MQS).


    You dont need the proposal of this topic. You dont need to restrict human behaviour. Create your own red legends. Discover the traitors in your community. Or the enemy gatherers might turn around and pvp anyway.

    Dont you see how wrong it is to create such unnecessary systems?
    Dont you see how many real players stories WONT EVER HAPPEN if you try to control and make the game scripted?
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