I'm Convinced

On yesterday's livestream Steven made it 100% clear that PK on greens will be very rare, almost non-existent, because the planned corruption penalties will be a super effective deterrent.

For me, this ends the debate, for now, until A2 testing. Steven made it sound like griefing innocent, helpless little softies won't be a thing.

Honestly, while I was previously concerned that Ashes maybe needed more risk for people looking to kill gatherers for their lootz, I realize those concerns were misplaced.

If you're concerned about griefing and haven't watched the October 28 livestream, go watch it.

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daveywavey

Trenker wrote: »

One of the unfair ways for my theoretical naked noodle ganker to win fights and not increase their corruption is as follows:

The tactics being:
The Ganker's mate, being green or purple and corruption free, goads a green player into hitting him.

The green player turns purple.

The Ganker's mate may do a few more hits, then runs off or goes stealth or something.

The Naked Noodle Ganker appears for the kill. Against a purple player he gains no more corruption.

I am fairly new around here so please shoot my theories down, I want you to!

Issues in my evil theory concern how long does the Ganker's Mate stay purple after the goading and what happens when a purple attacks a green later on during following gank sessions?

Corruption is for when they're not fighting back. In this scenario, they're already fighting. This scenario has nothing to do with Corruption, as it's all consensual PvP.

Leylos

My understanding from the system is that it allows players to commit murder but heavily disincentivizes them from committing mass murder.

I'm very glad that they didn't outright ban PK'ing but instead built gameplay systems around it. Yes, getting killed by a high level can be annoying, but on the other hand this system can create a very nice cooperative experience.

Whether that includes hunting a murderer alongside other bounty hunters or just stepping in to help defend someone else (and making a friend along the way), limited PK'ing creates unlimited emergent and exciting gameplay situations.

bloodprophet

Trenker wrote: »

One of the unfair ways for my theoretical naked noodle ganker to win fights and not increase their corruption is as follows:

The tactics being:
The Ganker's mate, being green or purple and corruption free, goads a green player into hitting him.

The green player turns purple.

The Ganker's mate may do a few more hits, then runs off or goes stealth or something.

The Naked Noodle Ganker appears for the kill. Against a purple player he gains no more corruption.

I am fairly new around here so please shoot my theories down, I want you to!

Issues in my evil theory concern how long does the Ganker's Mate stay purple after the goading and what happens when a purple attacks a green later on during following gank sessions?

Greens attacking reds do not turn purple.
Reds are treated as mobs by the system. So your other buddy attacking a green attacking your red is still attacking a green.

Uboon

novercalis wrote: »

Most people wont fall for that bait.

This scenerio doesnt bring anything in favor of the PK - this is a ok strat if a dummy falls for it.

I do not agree with either point...

At the start of the fight the bait looks like simple green on green, which would become purple on purple, which will give no penalties. Most people would be happy to fight this way because it is consensual PvP. Therefore the baiting will often work. In accordance with my original plan, the antagonist then runs off and the real harassment begins when the red PKer comes out to play. The only defence is to never fight back, even if the attacker you see at the start is green or purple. But then there would be no consensual PvP going on for fear of this trap. Something players would have to learn the hard way.

The fight goes in the favour of the red PKer because he does not gain corruption when killing a purple.

Songcaller

The purple player would be a pvp player if that player is still defiant enough to fight two players. The purple player could nuke the corrupted player due to stat dampening.

Azherae

Trenker wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

Most people wont fall for that bait.

This scenerio doesnt bring anything in favor of the PK - this is a ok strat if a dummy falls for it.

I do not agree with either point...

At the start of the fight the bait looks like simple green on green, which would become purple on purple, which will give no penalties. Most people would be happy to fight this way because it is consensual PvP. Therefore the baiting will often work. In accordance with my original plan, the antagonist then runs off and the real harassment begins when the red PKer comes out to play. The only defence is to never fight back, even if the attacker you see at the start is green or purple. But then there would be no consensual PvP going on for fear of this trap. Something players would have to learn the hard way.

The fight goes in the favour of the red PKer because he does not gain corruption when killing a purple.

Optimal solution: Never 1v1 anyone in the open world.

Noaani

Trenker wrote: »

One of the unfair ways for my theoretical naked noodle ganker to win fights and not increase their corruption is as follows:

The tactics being:
The Ganker's mate, being green or purple and corruption free, goads a green player into hitting him.

The green player turns purple.

The Ganker's mate may do a few more hits, then runs off or goes stealth or something.

The Naked Noodle Ganker appears for the kill. Against a purple player he gains no more corruption.

I am fairly new around here so please shoot my theories down, I want you to!

Issues in my evil theory concern how long does the Ganker's Mate stay purple after the goading and what happens when a purple attacks a green later on during following gank sessions?

Why are you involving two players?

Your friend goads a player in to attacking them - they can now just kill that player without gaining corruption.

Further, while the red you have hiding may not gain corruption from killing this goaded player, they will still have PvP penalties from corruption, and so will already be less effective on combat. Further, by just being red, you invite bounty hunters to come along and attack - hide all you like, they will find you.

Seems like a good plan for a different game, tbh.

Uboon

I guess it boils down to this: PvP is always 'on'. If you enter combat, then you are fair game to anyone. If you kill a non-combatant, then you go red. Simples!

Other games just let you manually toggle PvP on or off, but with AoC you cannot avoid being attacked. Spicey!

Unfortunately, the complex diagrams, the forced attack key binding, the opt-in checkbox so hits register, all contrive to make this "simple spicey" difference bloomin' complicated! And all so you can whack a green when the need arises.

But now that I have my head around it all, I like it. I'm sure your average player will figure it all out, eventually.

George_Black

Trenker wrote: »

I guess it boils down to this: PvP is always 'on'. If you enter combat, then you are fair game to anyone. If you kill a non-combatant, then you go red. Simples!

Other games just let you manually toggle PvP on or off, but with AoC you cannot avoid being attacked. Spicey!

Unfortunately, the complex diagrams, the forced attack key binding, the opt-in checkbox so hits register, all contrive to make this "simple spicey" difference bloomin' complicated! And all so you can whack a green when the need arises.

But now that I have my head around it all, I like it. I'm sure your average player will figure it all out, eventually.

Good. Moving on.

Arya_Yeshe

Where's the cooldown for changing the flag color?

If I am a solo purple and a bunch of purples come my way to attack me, can I instantly turn green and flip the finger to them and yell:
CONTENT DENIED

Arya_Yeshe

As a bounty hunter, I still want the option to send reds to the gibbets in the city for 15 minutes, when the cage opens then the mob can lynch the guy... if he dies again then he goes to the regular spawn

Arya_Yeshe

Why I love EVE system?

Because in EVE there is no flagging, there are timers and they have their own scopes:

player x player: duels and open pvp agression
player x everybody: criminals and suspects
guild x guild: wars

Example player to player:

So EVE's system can't be exploited, one example I think AoC can be "exploited" (not a real exploit at all):

Use a PURPLE bait against a GREEN and make him become PURPLE, then the RED can show up and kill the PURPLE

In EVE with it's scopes:

red skull: confirmed criminal, shootable by all
yellow skull: suspect, shootable by all
cyan skull: combatant, shootable by you
red star: legal war, both sides can freely shoot each other permanently at any given day while war is active

Bringing EVE system to AoC we would have this:

guild wars: both sides will always see purple/red regardless the flag, there would be no green enemies
green gatherer: if gatherer fights back then he will be purple only to the attackers, everybody else around him will still see him as green
node wars: citizens from both nodes will always see each other as purple or red
sea: everybody purple/red

What this would cause?
This would cause some fights which your friend from the other guild will be lynched in front of you while you are seeing him and his attackers as GREEN!!!!

But they would all be seeing each other as purple!
You don't have the right to fight that fight, it is an ilegal fight for you, this happens in EVE too, but at least EVE is fair

Arya_Yeshe

So what makes sense for AoC?

Makes sense that the GREEN gatherer who fights back will still be green and fend off his combatant.... green until the end

If the GREEN guy switches to PURPLE than it is his fault, more purples or reds could show up and gank him

So the green guy defending himself should have an combatant timer against his attacker being purple or red
Follow EVE:

It is LIMITED to that combatant

If AoC keeps the green gatherer as green while defending himself, then it's fine

George_Black

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Where's the cooldown for changing the flag color?

If I am a solo purple and a bunch of purples come my way to attack me, can I instantly turn green and flip the finger to them and yell:
CONTENT DENIED

There is a timer, during which your name flickers purple/green.
People would want to stop hitting during that.
Otherwise if they land a

KILLING

hit once the flickering stops then they will turn red.

Aces_Are_Wild

I feel like people will just make alts to grief, and just keep them somewhere safe to lower the wanted levels to they go out again or just log off until they want to grief again

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

People would want to stop hitting during that.
Otherwise if they land a hit once the flickering stops then they will turn red.

Only if they land a killing blow after the flicker stops. Landing a hit wouldnt do anything if they are already combatants.

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