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Griefing a grinding spot

Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

Best regards!
«1

Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Players in PvE games have been dealing with that situation for decades now...

    One option is to see if they want to join a group with you, then the two of you can grind faster, without needing to compete.

    I mean, not everything needs to be adversarial.

    Crazy, right?
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Players in PvE games have been dealing with that situation for decades now...

    One option is to see if they want to join a group with you, then the two of you can grind faster, without needing to compete.

    I mean, not everything needs to be adversarial.

    Crazy, right?

    That's great if that's an equally/more efficient way to grind, however, in most games, it's more efficient to grind as a solo, therefore you'd be losing efficiency grouping up. You'd be basically bullied into grouping, and that's just not right for someone who's trying to min max.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Or you can just PK them and suck it up with the penalties.

    Also, the game will be much much much more party-based than BDO, so you won't be soloing all the farming locations. If anything I doubt you'll be able to solo a valuable location at all.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Noaani wrote: »
    Players in PvE games have been dealing with that situation for decades now...

    One option is to see if they want to join a group with you, then the two of you can grind faster, without needing to compete.

    I mean, not everything needs to be adversarial.

    Crazy, right?

    That's great if that's an equally/more efficient way to grind, however, in most games, it's more efficient to grind as a solo, therefore you'd be losing efficiency grouping up. You'd be basically bullied into grouping, and that's just not right for someone who's trying to min max.

    Actually, most games see you grind faster by doing this. It increases the rate at which the two of you can kill (if you work together), and many games have a group bonus to experience gain on top of the experience for killing the mob.

    Since developers want to encourage the above kinds of interactions, until we see otherwise, we should assume it will be faster to grind in a group.

    Edit to add, in most games, players dont actually realise these things - because they are too busy trying to be adversarial.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Players in PvE games have been dealing with that situation for decades now...

    One option is to see if they want to join a group with you, then the two of you can grind faster, without needing to compete.

    I mean, not everything needs to be adversarial.

    Crazy, right?

    Can you imagine you log on and around your freehold there's no trees at all? :p

    You would have to spend some time looking for trees elsewhere, kinda funny thinking about it.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    BDO is not a good example of pve content, any other mmorpg you get more being in a group as you are fighting better mobs.
  • Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Yes, in games carebears are scary, they hoard everything with their hairy paws.

    For dealing with them there's:
    1) guild wars, if they are in a guild that has a freehold and you have a freehold too, you can declare war
    2) node wars, unless you belong to the same chain from that master node, then you can't declare war
    3) gank them and suffer heavy consequences

    For now there isn't much to do, at the momment it seems that if someone wants to PVE grief you then the guy can walk away scot-free.

    This is the danger PVE brings to many games, PVE griefers in Minecraft are by far the worst.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Given the heavy penalties the corruption system brings, PvP alts will be the answer.
  • Given the heavy penalties the corruption system brings, PvP alts will be the answer.

    In their latest video they said the alts won't be a good option for this :P
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Or you can just PK them and suck it up with the penalties.

    Also, the game will be much much much more party-based than BDO, so you won't be soloing all the farming locations. If anything I doubt you'll be able to solo a valuable location at all.

    That's good to hear, I really hope it is that way :D
  • BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.

    A duel? Why? I'm using all my tools to make you go away. Farming in your spot IS NOT griefing. It's not yours. That's the entitlement that comes from people that don't wanna PvP, or think they exist in the game as a sole entity.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.

    I have literally never seen that happen.

    Not in 20 years.

    I've seen people fight others for a spot, for sure.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    SoL= wrote:
    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.

    I have to agree with @Noaani and @BlackBrony, you don’t have a claim to any resources except for those in your bag. Everything else is negotiable or fought over.

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    yeah but if there are more spots, why do they have to come to where you are?


    to op: just pull mobs and get em killed haha or afk till they leave xD or pk if you are in a spot far away form everybody
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    ...we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off...
    ... bullied into grouping, and that's just not right for someone who's trying to min max...
    ... there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it...

    THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU!

    The discussion, if content blocking/grindspot claiming is griefing, is as old as time. My take is, that you are the griefer, but lets just say, we agree to disagree. In the situation you bring, both would be punished by corruption on one side and death penalties on the other

    Everything that is revealed about gameplay mechanics and what Steven says about his vision for the game, points at the direction, that AoC strongly discourages the MinMaxing gamestyle. There won't be MinMaxing farm routes for gatherers. There won't be the best dungeon for dungeon crawlers. There won't be the perfect quest route for leveling as fast as possible. It will change day by day and depends on where the other players are.

    We don't know much about grindspots, but it's allready clear that killing one mob group over and over will lead to depletion and maybe migration.

    I think, the most effective way to play, will be to group with some friends and find/agree on something, that is possible at the moment.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    yeah but if there are more spots, why do they have to come to where you are?

    Why does that apply to the late comer and not you that are there from the start? If there are other spots why don't YOU leave?

  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    "Sorrowbringer"...."Depraved"....kind of revealing, innit?
  • Kubitz2 wrote: »
    "Sorrowbringer"...."Depraved"....kind of revealing, innit?

    Lmao, if you want to infer anything from a randomized user name go ahead :P
  • BlackBrony wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.

    A duel? Why? I'm using all my tools to make you go away. Farming in your spot IS NOT griefing. It's not yours. That's the entitlement that comes from people that don't wanna PvP, or think they exist in the game as a sole entity.

    I don't think you got my point... I want that kind of thing to be pvp related, meaning people fighting over things (or grouping over it), what I wanted to know is how the potential for someone come and "grief" a very good grind spot and what could the answer for that be.
  • Kubitz2 wrote: »
    ...we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off...
    ... bullied into grouping, and that's just not right for someone who's trying to min max...
    ... there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it...

    THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU!

    The discussion, if content blocking/grindspot claiming is griefing, is as old as time. My take is, that you are the griefer, but lets just say, we agree to disagree. In the situation you bring, both would be punished by corruption on one side and death penalties on the other

    Everything that is revealed about gameplay mechanics and what Steven says about his vision for the game, points at the direction, that AoC strongly discourages the MinMaxing gamestyle. There won't be MinMaxing farm routes for gatherers. There won't be the best dungeon for dungeon crawlers. There won't be the perfect quest route for leveling as fast as possible. It will change day by day and depends on where the other players are.

    We don't know much about grindspots, but it's allready clear that killing one mob group over and over will lead to depletion and maybe migration.

    I think, the most effective way to play, will be to group with some friends and find/agree on something, that is possible at the moment.

    Well, I disagree, the game seems to be for me, I was just inquiring about a potential griefing situation (in my pov) and you come out with an all caps "this game is not for you" lmao.

    Again, I just wanted to know what was what and if this kind of situation had been discussed in the past or what peoples thoughts on it were.
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    SoL= wrote:
    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.

    I have to agree with @Noaani and @BlackBrony, you don’t have a claim to any resources except for those in your bag. Everything else is negotiable or fought over.

    I completely agree with your statement, contesting things is a good thing, however the pvp system punishes you if someone comes to the spot you are grinding and just grinds over your rotation disrupting it because you cant kill them over and over, your damage will be null at some point (according to their latest video on pvp).
  • Noaani wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Having come from Black Desert, there was this huge issue with "weaker" players griefing you while you were grinding.
    I don't know how grindy this game will be, probably not as much as black desert but I suppose there will still be some grinding involved.
    With the corruption system in place we can't just kill that guy that comes into our rotation and disrupts it continuously with the goal of kicking you off said grinding spot. How is one supposed to deal with that?
    I've had a fair share of such encouters and these people were not generally very keen on speaking and being civil about it.
    How is this issue going to be handled? How can one defend one's grinding spot?

    Best regards!

    Why is it your spot? Do you own the mobs? Did you buy the spot? They have the same right as you to be there.

    That's what someone who would grief someone else who was already grinding there would say :open_mouth:
    No there's no written rule, however there has been a "grind etiquette" that infers that if you were in a spot first then you are entitled to that spot untill someone comes and requests to duel for it, in which case the winner gets the spot. At least it has been that way in the games that I've played.

    I have literally never seen that happen.

    Not in 20 years.

    I've seen people fight others for a spot, for sure.

    I think I might have not explained myself well, I want the pvp for spots, be it grinding or farming, what I want to know is how would it work if someone "griefs" you by coming back continuously just to disrupt your grinding. The corruption system wont allow you to kill them continuously. That was my whole "question".

    Sorry if I wasn't clear or sounded entitled.
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022

    Well, I disagree, the game seems to be for me, I was just inquiring about a potential griefing situation (in my pov) and you come out with an all caps "this game is not for you" lmao.

    Again, I just wanted to know what was what and if this kind of situation had been discussed in the past or what peoples thoughts on it were.

    Well... since you don't seem to have read anything, but the caps, maybe I should write everything in caps.

    About your situation:
    1. You can do something about it. You can kill him and take the risk of going red. You are still on the spot and start working of your corruption(will probably take a while). He will have death penalties, so coming back and contesting your mobs will be harder for him too, so his rewards diminish. It's a risk vs reward situation.

    2. You are not entitled to anything, just because you are stronger then someone else.

    3. There never was, or ever will be an etiquette like the one you are talking about. You are saying that there should be honor among thieves and there never wil be. It just always comes up, when someone doesn't get his way and thinks he is entitled to do/get something.

    4. I didn't infer anything from your name,I read your statements. But you're right, should have written "fitting" instead of revealing.

    5. Yes, I still think AoC will not be the game you are looking for. What you want(spot claiming/content locking in a way, where you are safe), will probably not be possible. It contradicts the risk vs reward structure.

    I feel I have to repeat myself for you: The question you asked is answered and the situation you constructed is covered by the game mechanics.
  • Kubitz2 wrote: »

    Well, I disagree, the game seems to be for me, I was just inquiring about a potential griefing situation (in my pov) and you come out with an all caps "this game is not for you" lmao.

    Again, I just wanted to know what was what and if this kind of situation had been discussed in the past or what peoples thoughts on it were.

    Well... since you don't seem to have read anything, but the caps, maybe I should write everything in caps.

    About your situation:
    1. You can do something about it. You can kill him and take the risk of going red. You are still on the spot and start working of your corruption(will probably take a while). He will have death penalties, so coming back and contesting your mobs will be harder for him too, so his rewards diminish. It's a risk vs reward situation.

    2. You are not entitled to anything, just because you are stronger then someone else.

    3. There never was, or ever will be an etiquette like the one you are talking about. You are saying that there should be honor among thieves and there never wil be. It just always comes up, when someone doesn't get his way and thinks he is entitled to do/get something.

    4. I didn't infer anything from your name,I read your statements. But you're right, should have written "fitting" instead of revealing.

    5. Yes, I still think AoC will not be the game you are looking for. What you want(spot claiming/content locking in a way, where you are safe), will probably not be possible. It contradicts the risk vs reward structure.

    I feel I have to repeat myself for you: The question you asked is answered and the situation you constructed is covered by the game mechanics.

    Thanks a bunch for your input!
  • Kubitz2 wrote: »



    3. There never was, or ever will be an etiquette like the one you are talking about. You are saying that there should be honor among thieves and there never wil be. It just always comes up, when someone doesn't get his way and thinks he is entitled to do/get something.

    Camps in EQ 100% had the etiquette you claimed never or will never existed. It was extremely poor form to infringe on someone's camp and would get you blacklisted. If you went to a dungeon and the spot you wanted was camped, you either went to a different camp, or asked the other group to let you know when they were leaving so you could take the camp you wanted. If you did the typical PvE griefer tactic of training a group to wipe them, that was a bannable offense. No one ever stated "it's not your spot, you don't own it!" until the casual carebears started playing MMO's once WoW came out (in my experience). People were nicer back then.

    It's how I prefer to play as well since I've played a lot of EQ. Since the OP used BDO as an example and I also played that a fair amount. If I went to a spot, I'd just take the less efficient spot and PM the other person to let me know when they were done. If someone tried to infringe on my spot, I'd dec and pvp them off the spot.

    I agree with OP, I should be able to pvp you from taking my spot. The problem is that one kill makes you red is a terrible idea, and it's further exacerbated by the fact that if your Red and dude comes back green, you can't CC them, another terrible idea.
  • Calibix wrote: »
    Kubitz2 wrote: »



    3. There never was, or ever will be an etiquette like the one you are talking about. You are saying that there should be honor among thieves and there never wil be. It just always comes up, when someone doesn't get his way and thinks he is entitled to do/get something.

    Camps in EQ 100% had the etiquette you claimed never or will never existed. It was extremely poor form to infringe on someone's camp and would get you blacklisted. If you went to a dungeon and the spot you wanted was camped, you either went to a different camp, or asked the other group to let you know when they were leaving so you could take the camp you wanted. If you did the typical PvE griefer tactic of training a group to wipe them, that was a bannable offense. No one ever stated "it's not your spot, you don't own it!" until the casual carebears started playing MMO's once WoW came out (in my experience). People were nicer back then.

    It's how I prefer to play as well since I've played a lot of EQ. Since the OP used BDO as an example and I also played that a fair amount. If I went to a spot, I'd just take the less efficient spot and PM the other person to let me know when they were done. If someone tried to infringe on my spot, I'd dec and pvp them off the spot.

    I agree with OP, I should be able to pvp you from taking my spot. The problem is that one kill makes you red is a terrible idea, and it's further exacerbated by the fact that if your Red and dude comes back green, you can't CC them, another terrible idea.

    Thanks for understanding my point and developing further on it, that's exactly what I meant.
  • CalibixCalibix Member
    edited October 2022
    Calibix wrote: »
    Kubitz2 wrote: »



    3. There never was, or ever will be an etiquette like the one you are talking about. You are saying that there should be honor among thieves and there never wil be. It just always comes up, when someone doesn't get his way and thinks he is entitled to do/get something.

    Camps in EQ 100% had the etiquette you claimed never or will never existed. It was extremely poor form to infringe on someone's camp and would get you blacklisted. If you went to a dungeon and the spot you wanted was camped, you either went to a different camp, or asked the other group to let you know when they were leaving so you could take the camp you wanted. If you did the typical PvE griefer tactic of training a group to wipe them, that was a bannable offense. No one ever stated "it's not your spot, you don't own it!" until the casual carebears started playing MMO's once WoW came out (in my experience). People were nicer back then.

    It's how I prefer to play as well since I've played a lot of EQ. Since the OP used BDO as an example and I also played that a fair amount. If I went to a spot, I'd just take the less efficient spot and PM the other person to let me know when they were done. If someone tried to infringe on my spot, I'd dec and pvp them off the spot.

    I agree with OP, I should be able to pvp you from taking my spot. The problem is that one kill makes you red is a terrible idea, and it's further exacerbated by the fact that if your Red and dude comes back green, you can't CC them, another terrible idea.

    Thanks for understanding my point and developing further on it, that's exactly what I meant.


    Np, I spent a ton of time reading about AoC at some friends recommendations last week end and was getting really hyped until I found out how bad the green/purple/red system combined with corruption is going to be imo. It's literally the only thing from preventing me from buying into Alpha 2 at this point. Way too much catering to carebears when they have a million other games they could play. I just want an actual PvX sandbox to play in.
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    Calibix wrote: »
    Camps in EQ 100% had the etiquette you claimed never or will never existed.
    Well...I think I'll take everything back then. Never played EQ. Aren't you contradicting yourself though, by stating that people were blacklisted and did train mobs? So there was an elite that decided who adhered to the rules and who didn't? What if I didn't belong to that group? 100%....really?
    Calibix wrote: »
    It's how I prefer to play as well since I've played a lot of EQ
    I don't want to take that away from you.
    Calibix wrote: »
    I agree with OP, I should be able to pvp you from taking my spot.
    This is where i disagree and where I think, that what we know about the game mechanics so far, does not support the way you want to play the game.
    Not just in the spot claiming scenario, but in much broader terms like spot grinding, minmaxing, "bullied" into grouping, content blocking and even PvP mechanics in general.
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