Possibly a small area where you can test your main class skills before you pick it?

SirChancelot

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

George_Black

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Optics2134

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I like games which you can reset your build and saving a few presets

A preset for dungeoning, one for siges, etc

You will be able to reset skills, you just will not be able to reset them on the fly,. Likely have to return to a trainer in order to reset them. You CAN NOT Reset your Primary Archetype. I think you can change your secondary. Don't quote me on that one.

SirChancelot

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

I would expect the game to allows us to do this. Either through some gear variation or just purely by saying "you can't do everything alone, go fucking party up, you dumbass".

SirChancelot

NiKr wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

I would expect the game to allows us to do this. Either through some gear variation or just purely by saying "you can't do everything alone, go fucking party up, you dumbass".

Allowing it and being good for it are two different things. If you're doing solo stuff wouldn't you want some more defense or sustain, while if you're in a raid you can focus on maximizing damage output since tanks should be taking the brunt of the dmg.

Also, I was not implying you could do group content alone, I meant it as being a part of the group in group content.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

Allowing it and being good for it are two different things. If you're doing solo stuff wouldn't you want some more defense or sustain, while if you're in a raid you can focus on maximizing damage output since tanks should be taking the brunt of the dmg.

Also, I was not implying you could do group content alone, I meant it as being a part of the group in group content.

And I want that flipflopping to be limited as much as possible. Either make the class change once a week and skill build once a day or just make both super expensive so people couldn't just change it every time they need to.

Choices have to matter, at least to some extent. If I'm going to a location where my current build is subpar - I'll have a harder time farming it and I like it that way, because that means that my choice has proper consequences.

SirChancelot

NiKr wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Allowing it and being good for it are two different things. If you're doing solo stuff wouldn't you want some more defense or sustain, while if you're in a raid you can focus on maximizing damage output since tanks should be taking the brunt of the dmg.

Also, I was not implying you could do group content alone, I meant it as being a part of the group in group content.

And I want that flipflopping to be limited as much as possible. Either make the class change once a week and skill build once a day or just make both super expensive so people couldn't just change it every time they need to.

Choices have to matter, at least to some extent. If I'm going to a location where my current build is subpar - I'll have a harder time farming it and I like it that way, because that means that my choice has proper consequences.

If it works the way you want and having a week in between possible respec that would make me want an experimentation playground even more. The last thing I want to do is get a new weapon want to try a new build around it have it be absolutely awful and then be stuck with it for a week. At that point you're just punishing creativity and experimentation. Yes choices matter, I get that. But what you're describing just doesn't sound fun either.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

If it works the way you want and having a week in between possible respec that would make me want an experimentation playground even more. The last thing I want to do is get a new weapon want to try a new build around it have it be absolutely awful and then be stuck with it for a week. At that point you're just punishing creativity and experimentation. Yes choices matter, I get that. But what you're describing just doesn't sound fun either.

Or, you could just find stuff that fits your current build And if the gear doesn't fit well with your current build, you're free to sell/share that gear with people who would make better use of it.

LordBlank

Depraved wrote: »

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

Hey so I posted this idea a while ago but I had it in the wrong section so it got closed.

Basically, I'm thinking that maybe in character creation (or whenever you pick your class) there could be a small “test” button where you teleport to a small instanced area with a target dummy and you can test out the class you might want to main.

The ashes of creation wiki states that "A player cannot change their primary archetype". Plus even though the "Secondary archetypes may be changed augments do radically change the way your active skills provide you abilities".

I believe your first-class pick is pretty important and it’d be nice to know if you like the feel of a weapon before you pick it. I would also love to know how the second pick will affect the feel of my class.

I’m thinking something similar to the testing area in monster hunter world but on a smaller scale.

Wiki Link: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

yessss +100

it would be nice to have a feel for each class before committing to one.
id love to be able to see all the archetypes skills and the augments from the 2nd archetype and maybe religion, etc before deciding on a main, even though im pretty sure ill be playing a cleric.

Shouldn't you know what class you want to play based on what you want to do?

Arya_Yeshe

George_Black wrote: »

What dungeoing preset? You can get attacked any momeny by other players. What will that preset do?

I guess you are new to video games, let me help you with a gamer insight:

-if you are in a party you may a set of skills
-if you are solo roaming in the open world you may have another set

Got it?
Hit me up if you have more doubts about video-games, I played a few

SirChancelot

NiKr wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

If it works the way you want and having a week in between possible respec that would make me want an experimentation playground even more. The last thing I want to do is get a new weapon want to try a new build around it have it be absolutely awful and then be stuck with it for a week. At that point you're just punishing creativity and experimentation. Yes choices matter, I get that. But what you're describing just doesn't sound fun either.

Or, you could just find stuff that fits your current build And if the gear doesn't fit well with your current build, you're free to sell/share that gear with people who would make better use of it.

You know that's not a realistic attitude right?
If I get a weapon of a higher tier and I want to try to use the possible build around that weapons active skill tree and it doesn't work for whatever class I'm playing I shouldn't be put in a week-long timeout for experimenting... That's just gonna feel like bad gameplay.

People giving away their hands me down old weapons sure, but people giving away new weapons that are objectively better than what they're holding not likely.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

People giving away their hands me down old weapons sure, but people giving away new weapons that are objectively better than what they're holding not likely.

And what about trading new for new? Someone else might've gotten a new weapon that fits your current build, while you might've found smth that fits their build but not yours. And now you can trade and not only develop new social connections (or strengthen old ones) but also become stronger w/o changing your entire build.

Spif

Back to the main topic, it would be possible for the DEVs to create a main menu "class-test" option that lets you pick from 64 L50 templates each with an inventory that has a wide variety of weapon and armor choices of meh quality gear (ie, greens). This character then loads into a smallish private instanced area that has a skill point reset NPC and some target dummies. Maybe an attacking dummy too.

Test builds all you want, but you're not going to get that much spoiler info on endgame.

SirChancelot

NiKr wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

People giving away their hands me down old weapons sure, but people giving away new weapons that are objectively better than what they're holding not likely.

And what about trading new for new? Someone else might've gotten a new weapon that fits your current build, while you might've found smth that fits their build but not yours. And now you can trade and not only develop new social connections (or strengthen old ones) but also become stronger w/o changing your entire build.

You're still discouraging experimenting and creativity with various builds. Hence OP asking for a testing sandbox. I think it would be better to have it exist separate from the actual game servers.
Even games like LoL have a practice tool, and I'd love to see something like it in a game like this that has as many options as ashes plans to have.

George_Black

SirChancelot wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

Hahhahahha you picked the wrong person.
Yes. In eso I was a stamDK dw/dw for dungeon dps/tank, raid dps, arena/cyro pvp, open world questing, master crafter in all paths. 1 char with all the skillpoints the game had to offer for everything.
Some people like to roleplay as themselves on a game world, not having alts, as characters they slip in.
Yes, the same char, same weapons, different armor sets.
But that's just me...

Still, wanna try new char? Watch youtube. Having a testing area ruins the sense of discovery and possibilities. A sense of entitlement and the need to be spoon fed shouldnt ruin it for all. You will say "dont use it". If it's there it must be used. No. Play the fckn game, it's not a lab.

George_Black

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

What dungeoing preset? You can get attacked any momeny by other players. What will that preset do?

I guess you are new to video games, let me help you with a gamer insight:

-if you are in a party you may a set of skills
-if you are solo roaming in the open world you may have another set

Got it?
Hit me up if you have more doubts about video-games, I played a few

Are you touched in the head? This isnt your wow eso ff14. You dont spec into dungeon pve, solo pve , arena pvp, smallscale pvp, large scale, questing. If you dont get what ppl are telling you that's fine. If you confuse shits for bricks that's also fine.
Dont try to come up on top though. You will fall badly.

SirChancelot

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

Hahhahahha you picked the wrong person.
Yes. In eso I was a stamDK dw/dw for dungeon dps/tank, raid dps, arena/cyro pvp, open world questing, master crafter in all paths. 1 char with all the skillpoints the game had to offer for everything.
Some people like to roleplay as themselves on a game world, not having alts, as characters they slip in.
Yes, the same char, same weapons, different armor sets.
But that's just me...

Still, wanna try new char? Watch youtube. Having a testing area ruins the sense of discovery and possibilities. A sense of entitlement and the need to be spoon fed shouldnt ruin it for all. You will say "dont use it". If it's there it must be used. No. Play the fckn game, it's not a lab.

That sounds like you're applauding poor game design. No wonder our views don't align, you have terrible taste.

I don't even get how me wanting to experiment with various builds for classes counts as spoon feeding?...

George_Black

SirChancelot wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

Hahhahahha you picked the wrong person.
Yes. In eso I was a stamDK dw/dw for dungeon dps/tank, raid dps, arena/cyro pvp, open world questing, master crafter in all paths. 1 char with all the skillpoints the game had to offer for everything.
Some people like to roleplay as themselves on a game world, not having alts, as characters they slip in.
Yes, the same char, same weapons, different armor sets.
But that's just me...

Still, wanna try new char? Watch youtube. Having a testing area ruins the sense of discovery and possibilities. A sense of entitlement and the need to be spoon fed shouldnt ruin it for all. You will say "dont use it". If it's there it must be used. No. Play the fckn game, it's not a lab.

That sounds like you're applauding poor game design. No wonder our views don't align, you have terrible taste.

I don't even get how me wanting to experiment with various builds for classes counts as spoon feeding?...

Play the game, experiment in real situations, put the effort in to raise a char.
Your first thoughts were "what if I dont lile it? Why should I waste time lving a char snd then I wont possibly like it. I want a preview." Entitlement.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

I don't even get how me wanting to experiment with various builds for classes counts as spoon feeding?...

You want to minmax the hell out of the game, but you don't have the time to do it through normal means so you want a feature that lets you completely go around any meaningful choices in the game and see directly and immediately what any given choice would provide you. Instead of adjusting your playstyle to what you've chosen at an earlier point, you want the game to adapt to your playstyle at your every whim.

You want the reward of having the best possible build w/o the risk of investing time into said build and then failing.

And this doesn't even consider all the resulting youtube guides. The game's meta will be solved within days just because every hardcore CC will be able to test out every single possible build w/o any issues.

TheDarkSorcerer

I think a solve for this would be to add some sort of training area/training dummies in the intro mission/quest.

SirChancelot

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I think a solve for this would be to add some sort of training area/training dummies in the intro mission/quest.

ENTITLEMENNTTT!!¡!

Ludullu

George_Black

I like how some "smart" ppl here take such things for granted, even though no other mmo has ever done anything like this.
In bdo you get a visual on your skills from within the skill tab. Eso has some skill guide bs, for 60 year old gamers.
Nobody let's you test drive your class.

When I played AA, which is the closest to the class system of AoC, it was fun trying new class combos. Had I been given a testing ground, I would just go meta straight away, without trying, failing, rethinking and having fun on the actual game with every new combo.
Some might argue that in AA it was ez to change specs, but AoC will have a combo of only 2, not 3 classes like in AA.

Im sure Steven wants players to try and live the class system when the game is live, not treat it like some lab. Anyways I got tired of this boring topic.
Ill leaving to chancealot, one of the 5 deluded posters in this forum.
Just say "why not?" to everything. See where that gets you.

Maviodas

Honestly would love to see something like this.

Nova_terra

I still think this is a bad idea, In the years of MMOs I have played it didn't take very long to figure out I wasn't liking the class and I'd prefer the creativity of trying to make your class work and discovering which combo of skills/augments will create the experience you want. I am all for a small "when you pick your main class, here is some visuals or tooltips". I feel like the spirit of discovery and experimentation dies when everyone can min/max because some youtubers decided these 3 combinations are superior because they can parse on a dummy and have all access to skills.

I personally have always appreciated falling in love with a spec/build even if at first it hasn't clicked 100%.

SaltyOnigiri

I would honestly be fine with some form of visual representation at the bottom of the screen. I think that would be a perfectly reasonable middle ground. Some mmo’s make it so it takes a long time to delete your character and I’d just like some indication of how a class will feel if that’s the case for AOC.