Possibly a small area where you can test your main class skills before you pick it?

Hey so I posted this idea a while ago but I had it in the wrong section so it got closed.

Basically, I'm thinking that maybe in character creation (or whenever you pick your class) there could be a small “test” button where you teleport to a small instanced area with a target dummy and you can test out the class you might want to main.

The ashes of creation wiki states that "A player cannot change their primary archetype". Plus even though the "Secondary archetypes may be changed augments do radically change the way your active skills provide you abilities".

I believe your first-class pick is pretty important and it’d be nice to know if you like the feel of a weapon before you pick it. I would also love to know how the second pick will affect the feel of my class.

I’m thinking something similar to the testing area in monster hunter world but on a smaller scale.

Wiki Link: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

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tautau

Let's see...each basic archetype will have a large number of combinations of skill choices (you cannot pick them all), perhaps about 60 choices. Then your secondary archetype will have another large number of skill enhancement choices, let's assume another 60 possible skill combinations. Then we have 64 archetypes, so that is 60 x 60 x 64 or 302,400 different builds even prior to considering the impact of weapons, weapon enhancements, armor and enhancements, jewelry and enhancements, racial differences, guild skills and other stuff.

So, the variety of different builds we will have in the game will certainly far exceed the number of players on your server and possibly the number of players in the game.

That is why I really think that trying out the different archetypes and skills prior to choosing one is not particularly useful. Sure, I will see replies saying 'Don't show all that in the trials" but which do you include and which do you leave out? Whatever your choices, others will complain.

As I said earlier in the thread, we will have several alts. Make some characters and try them out for a dozen levels or so and see which you like most! Delete the ones you don't like.

SirChancelot

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

Hey so I posted this idea a while ago but I had it in the wrong section so it got closed.

Basically, I'm thinking that maybe in character creation (or whenever you pick your class) there could be a small “test” button where you teleport to a small instanced area with a target dummy and you can test out the class you might want to main.

The ashes of creation wiki states that "A player cannot change their primary archetype". Plus even though the "Secondary archetypes may be changed augments do radically change the way your active skills provide you abilities".

I believe your first-class pick is pretty important and it’d be nice to know if you like the feel of a weapon before you pick it. I would also love to know how the second pick will affect the feel of my class.

I’m thinking something similar to the testing area in monster hunter world but on a smaller scale.

Wiki Link: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

I would absolutely love something like this. Even if it's just something simple like that waiting area before an apoc match. With the ability to freely respec skill points and change secondaries. It would also be cool to have some target dummies or test mob areas.

Some said it would be info overload for people new to it, I don't care. It's just an experimentation/practice tool that has no impact on the world. It's not meant to be the game.

Some said go look at YouTube videos...
A.) I think that's useless because that doesn't help me figure out what I like the feel of at all.
B.) if I want to test some specific class combo and augment setup odds of me finding someone who has tested that are kinda small... As proved by the math people have done in this thread too
C.) I'll still say the whole go google/youtube it was what eroded the genre into what it is today... So you're the problem...

Why would we need an experimentation platform then? Just go play in the world and excitement there.
The last thing I want to do is sink 50+ hours in playing archetype X because I want to see what class X/Y is like and have it turn out that my theorycrafting was total garbage and I hate the class and need to reroll.
Some people will be all for that being the case, but I'm going to say mixing that with old school long leveling grinds is just going to feel bad.

Ace1234

Personally, I would be more interested in being able to read/see the unlockable Skills an archetype has before having to grind out levels to unlock them. Something like bdo.... where you can see the whole skill tree and a quick visual of the skill prior to unlocking it. This is HUGE to me as a PVPer I need to know what my class is going to be capable of prior to 200 hours of lvling to unlock that last Uber skill that turns out not to all that great for how I wanted to play the character..... IE: Rogue warrior or Warrior rogue they may be similar in a lot of ways but likely very different in pvp skills AOE, CCs, CDs ECT! ESPECIALLY IF alpha and Beta will not allow players to progress to max level. Some players live only to theory craft and make builds do crazy things. But going in blind is extremely painful.

This

Arya_Yeshe

I like games which you can reset your build and saving a few presets

A preset for dungeoning, one for siges, etc

George_Black

What dungeoing preset? You can get attacked any momeny by other players. What will that preset do?

SirChancelot

George_Black wrote: »

What dungeoing preset? You can get attacked any momeny by other players. What will that preset do?

Tanks could want more CC in PvP scenario but if doing a dungeon need more mitigation
Healers could have single target and AOE focused presets

But yeah dps is the same for anything/everything .

bloodprophet

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Lust69

Optics2134 wrote: »

Personally, I would be more interested in being able to read/see the unlockable Skills an archetype has before having to grind out levels to unlock them. Something like bdo.... where you can see the whole skill tree and a quick visual of the skill prior to unlocking it. This is HUGE to me as a PVPer I need to know what my class is going to be capable of prior to 200 hours of lvling to unlock that last Uber skill that turns out not to all that great for how I wanted to play the character..... IE: Rogue warrior or Warrior rogue they may be similar in a lot of ways but likely very different in pvp skills AOE, CCs, CDs ECT! ESPECIALLY IF alpha and Beta will not allow players to progress to max level. Some players live only to theory craft and make builds do crazy things. But going in blind is extremely painful.

I agree something like a skill window showing an animation of the skills like in bdo would be enough for me. Then there is an element of surprise in how the skill actually feels but you have a good idea of how it will play. I also like that you can’t pick all the skills it makes each character more unique and exciting to pick each skill.

George_Black

SirChancelot wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

What dungeoing preset? You can get attacked any momeny by other players. What will that preset do?

Tanks could want more CC in PvP scenario but if doing a dungeon need more mitigation
Healers could have single target and AOE focused presets

But yeah dps is the same for anything/everything .

What PvP scenario and what dungeon scenario are you talking about? You canr swap settings mid combat and PvP could happen any moment. What's the point of selecting your mitigation setup and the next second you get jumped? Dont you understand what PvX means?

There are no pvp presets, there are no dps presets, you progress your char and you are ready for anything. Only those in large organized groups can have both pve and pvp groups at the same spot, one fighting and the other raiding.
Everybody else should wake up and forget about PvE and PvP.
There is no point "gearing up for pve" or setting "pve skills" when you can get involved in pvp at any moment. What dont you understand?
Why are you talking about cc for pvp and mitigation for pve? There arent such scenarios.

George_Black

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Oh there. One person gets it.

SirChancelot

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

George_Black

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Optics2134

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I like games which you can reset your build and saving a few presets

A preset for dungeoning, one for siges, etc

You will be able to reset skills, you just will not be able to reset them on the fly,. Likely have to return to a trainer in order to reset them. You CAN NOT Reset your Primary Archetype. I think you can change your secondary. Don't quote me on that one.

SirChancelot

George_Black wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Interesting how many people still don't grasp PvX.
Like George said what preset?
People are still trying to separate PvE and PvP when this can't be done outside of an instanced dungeon.
Skill trees can only be reset in town and not on the fly.
Building and having separate pre saved spec's is a good idea but you will need to spec for PvX at all times.

Having saved builds doesn't mean I can easily swap between them.
I would still have to go to town to change out.

And it doesn't necessarily mean for PvP or PvE either. Maybe this area has more smaller mobs that AOE is better for, maybe that zone I want more focus in CC or my mobility related skills.

I just agreed that having saved skill points distribution would be useful

Yes you CAN be attacked anywhere, and should be able to respond... But this isn't a PvP game where that's the only thing I'm thinking of.

Then next time when Im responding to "dungeoing/sieging" dont get involved, especially if you are going to say "cc for pvp, mitigation for PvE".

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

I would expect the game to allows us to do this. Either through some gear variation or just purely by saying "you can't do everything alone, go fucking party up, you dumbass".

SirChancelot

NiKr wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Let me ask you this then.
Do you think you will get your fighter/fighter or fighter/mage and make a build and then use that same build for every type of content that ashes will offer? PvE,PvX, PvP, solo, 8-man, 40-man, node sieges, caravans, open sea... The same exact build for everything?

I would expect the game to allows us to do this. Either through some gear variation or just purely by saying "you can't do everything alone, go fucking party up, you dumbass".

Allowing it and being good for it are two different things. If you're doing solo stuff wouldn't you want some more defense or sustain, while if you're in a raid you can focus on maximizing damage output since tanks should be taking the brunt of the dmg.

Also, I was not implying you could do group content alone, I meant it as being a part of the group in group content.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

Allowing it and being good for it are two different things. If you're doing solo stuff wouldn't you want some more defense or sustain, while if you're in a raid you can focus on maximizing damage output since tanks should be taking the brunt of the dmg.

Also, I was not implying you could do group content alone, I meant it as being a part of the group in group content.

And I want that flipflopping to be limited as much as possible. Either make the class change once a week and skill build once a day or just make both super expensive so people couldn't just change it every time they need to.

Choices have to matter, at least to some extent. If I'm going to a location where my current build is subpar - I'll have a harder time farming it and I like it that way, because that means that my choice has proper consequences.

SirChancelot

NiKr wrote: »

SirChancelot wrote: »

Allowing it and being good for it are two different things. If you're doing solo stuff wouldn't you want some more defense or sustain, while if you're in a raid you can focus on maximizing damage output since tanks should be taking the brunt of the dmg.

Also, I was not implying you could do group content alone, I meant it as being a part of the group in group content.

And I want that flipflopping to be limited as much as possible. Either make the class change once a week and skill build once a day or just make both super expensive so people couldn't just change it every time they need to.

Choices have to matter, at least to some extent. If I'm going to a location where my current build is subpar - I'll have a harder time farming it and I like it that way, because that means that my choice has proper consequences.

If it works the way you want and having a week in between possible respec that would make me want an experimentation playground even more. The last thing I want to do is get a new weapon want to try a new build around it have it be absolutely awful and then be stuck with it for a week. At that point you're just punishing creativity and experimentation. Yes choices matter, I get that. But what you're describing just doesn't sound fun either.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

If it works the way you want and having a week in between possible respec that would make me want an experimentation playground even more. The last thing I want to do is get a new weapon want to try a new build around it have it be absolutely awful and then be stuck with it for a week. At that point you're just punishing creativity and experimentation. Yes choices matter, I get that. But what you're describing just doesn't sound fun either.

Or, you could just find stuff that fits your current build

And if the gear doesn't fit well with your current build, you're free to sell/share that gear with people who would make better use of it.

LordBlank

Depraved wrote: »

SaltyOnigiri wrote: »

Hey so I posted this idea a while ago but I had it in the wrong section so it got closed.

Basically, I'm thinking that maybe in character creation (or whenever you pick your class) there could be a small “test” button where you teleport to a small instanced area with a target dummy and you can test out the class you might want to main.

The ashes of creation wiki states that "A player cannot change their primary archetype". Plus even though the "Secondary archetypes may be changed augments do radically change the way your active skills provide you abilities".

I believe your first-class pick is pretty important and it’d be nice to know if you like the feel of a weapon before you pick it. I would also love to know how the second pick will affect the feel of my class.

I’m thinking something similar to the testing area in monster hunter world but on a smaller scale.

Wiki Link: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

yessss +100

it would be nice to have a feel for each class before committing to one.
id love to be able to see all the archetypes skills and the augments from the 2nd archetype and maybe religion, etc before deciding on a main, even though im pretty sure ill be playing a cleric.

Shouldn't you know what class you want to play based on what you want to do?

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