How it is not gold sink if I paid 100g for flask for example, and I farmed 1 hour of grinding to get that 100g? It is gold sink for individual, idk what kind of logic you have, but I did not mean that we lost that gold, I mean that I spent that gold, this is very important...
Right, but you farmed 1h of grinding. Did you get the gold just from gold drops from killing the mobs? That's 'generating' gold out of 'nothing' right? You 'gave up some time' and the game 'gave you gold'?
Or did you have to farm things that someone else actually wanted to buy from you?
I would farm things that other would buy, there is no farm in wow that you can earn without player interaction on auction house or trading. WoW is a great game because of all gathering/professions you could also farm gold in other ways, like for example killing timber bears in winterspring for attack power flask that costs around 10g each and per hour you would be able to get some 50-75g, or you could farm elementals for some element materials used for crafting, you would sell all this to other players. Or you could sell tanking services in Scholomance dungeon and take all runes that drop - per dungeon 3-4 runes worth of 20g each... Etc... There are many ways even in lower level areas and this gives that sandbox vibe I am talking about, because everything is important and has value not just high tier items/materials from high lvl zones. I love sandbox design ideas, but in a game that is similar to Ashes of Creation or even WoW with instanced content...
Ok good. So, if everyone else in this thread has played MMOs that ALSO required you to do this, would you say that we are all equal in understanding to a serious MMO-conservative such as yourself?
If everyone that is talking about how WoW is not THAT great, also is saying this because they played games where you have to farm items to sell to other players, if you want Consumables, do you think maybe their opinions might make more sense?
I do agree at some point, although I still dont understand why you guys oppose this idea of grinding and sustaining your character.
Someone had an argument before that if consumables are expensive, everyone would master alchemy. That wasnt the case with WoW and it would not make big impact in AoC, because some people do not like idea of them being an alchemist. Another argument would be that everyone masters certain profession to give unique and profitable elements to other players, this is why there is mastering of professions in games like these.
I do agree at some point, although I still dont understand why you guys oppose this idea of grinding and sustaining your character.
Someone had an argument before that if consumables are expensive, everyone would master alchemy. That wasnt the case with WoW and it would not make big impact in AoC, because some people do not like idea of them being an alchemist. Another argument would be that everyone masters certain profession to give unique and profitable elements to other players, this is why there is mastering of professions in games like these.
You are just having difficulty seeing what we are talking about.
Lemme try the emotional attack angle.
WoW sucks FFXI does all that stuff but better.
EDIT: For all others, I'm about to go into an exaggerated trolling 'emo-attack' mode on purpose to see if it makes any difference. If you were not caring, please continue not caring, this is a caricature. If you were caring but leaving it to me (those people know who they are) you may now ignore this.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I do agree at some point, although I still dont understand why you guys oppose this idea of grinding and sustaining your character.
Someone had an argument before that if consumables are expensive, everyone would master alchemy. That wasnt the case with WoW and it would not make big impact in AoC, because some people do not like idea of them being an alchemist. Another argument would be that everyone masters certain profession to give unique and profitable elements to other players, this is why there is mastering of professions in games like these.
You are just having difficulty seeing what we are talking about.
Lemme try the emotional attack angle.
WoW sucks FFXI does all that stuff but better.
EDIT: For all others, I'm about to go into an exaggerated trolling 'emo-attack' mode on purpose to see if it makes any difference. If you were not caring, please continue not caring, this is a caricature. If you were caring but leaving it to me (those people know who they are) you may now ignore this.
Good luck!
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Basically what you are saying is that first release of wow was bad due to high amount of grinding and preparing. This sounds absurd to me. Why would you want AoC to turn into lobby mmo, you have wow or gw2 for that. Take gw2 and you dont need to put effort for new gear with every 4months lol...
Basically what you are saying is that first release of wow was bad due to high amount of grinding and preparing. This sounds absurd to me. Why would you want AoC to turn into lobby mmo, you have wow or gw2 for that. Take gw2 and you dont need to put effort for new gear with every 4months lol...
Nah, it was too easy.
I played a game with way more hardcore preparing. WoW was lame ez mode lol.
What game was that? Can you explain why it had so much immersion with gold?
Final Fantasy XI.
I didn't play WoW because I was too busy getting ready to do content for the SECOND EXPANSION (technically first expansion in the Western release) of my objectively better game.
You only have to look at the Food. WoW's food system is lame, it's barely even an interesting consumable. FFXI's food system and potions are way better, and the game doesn't even drop gold from mobs except a few that drop like 20, and you need 2000 to buy food.
Mages conjuring food was a joke to me. Hard pass on that noise.
EDIT: Added links for you, you don't gotta use 'em.
Oh btw, yes, the only reason WoW became popular back then is literally because it was piss easy. It was the most casual of mmos of the time. Lineage 2 required you to grind for months just to get a bit better gear (not even a full set). And a single death there set you back several hours of hardcore grind at the best farming spot.
People lost weeks of playing when trying to kill a boss or during sieges. Oh and all the best in the genre open world pvp too! That pvp was so damn good that Steven copied it almost 1-to-1.
And from what I've heard EQ1 was also way more hardcore than WoW and there were several pvp mmos at the time that were even more hardcore in their designs than L2 was.
And stuff like Runescape seems to have been the grindiest shit ever too.
In other words, a lot of people here despise WoW (or at least dislike such frequent mentions of it) exactly because WoW was the reason why every single god damn mmo became a walk in the park after it. WoW ruined mmos for all the grindlovers. So, Veko, if you say that you liked WoW's grind - some of us see you as nothing more than a mere casual who doesn't even know what real grind and hardcoreness means.
Oh btw, yes, the only reason WoW became popular back then is literally because it was piss easy.
There it is, this is the truth about it!
WoW was the game for casuals, it was cute and at that time Warcraft was a huge franchise
Did you complain about MMOs being grindy and so that has to stop, you among many others that spoke to me via posts for these past few days.
I know that wow was easy, this is what I am telling this whole time. I just liked balance between grind and gameplay and fact that economy did not collapse once and that gokd was precious and it had a meaning.
I am new to MMOs I admit, I played wow for 15 years, but what I seen is that economy and worthiness of gold is a big problem in those mmos that I played recently. I stopped retail WoW because of that. Now I am playing gloria victis and only reason why I am still playing it is because gold feels worth. I also like GV because you farm silvers and not gold per hour. I like this realism very much.
But what if professions do not give skill ups, but instead we had to buy recipes for pricy number. Then overstacking at auction wont happen and there wont be economy drops? I just found a post on Pantheon: the rise of a fallen about this. Its much deeper then what I am saying, but this guy explained it very well. Maybe during crafts sometimes craft can fail and the more you craft the less chance to fail happens, or maybe you craft 4slot bags instead of 6 etc...
Oh btw, yes, the only reason WoW became popular back then is literally because it was piss easy.
There it is, this is the truth about it!
WoW was the game for casuals, it was cute and at that time Warcraft was a huge franchise
But what if professions do not give skill ups, but instead we had to buy recipes for pricy number. Then overstacking at auction wont happen and there wont be economy drops? I just found a post on Pantheon: the rise of a fallen about this. Its much deeper then what I am saying, but this guy explained it very well. Maybe during crafts sometimes craft can fail and the more you craft the less chance to fail happens, or maybe you craft 4slot bags instead of 6 etc...
All that sort of stuff is 'what if' to you? Man, I pity WoW players...
Also lol at 'buy recipes'.
Y'all had it bad. I'm so sorry.
Back in MY DAY you had to wait FIFTEEN HOURS for the MOON PHASE to change so you could get the best chance of succeeding at a difficult crafting attempt.
No, you went from disagreeing with superior traditional rog ideas for gold to matter to trolling which means to me a lot...
Superior to what? Get outta here with that nonsense. You basically started this. My FIRST post to you on this ENTIRE FORUM was to give you my sympathies. My SECOND post was to explain to you IN DETAIL why FFXI worked and how Ashes is likely to be similar to it.
You're the one here trolling, as far as I'm concerned. If you are ready to listen now, I'm happy to 'turn Troll mode back off'.
(Except that I'm about to go to a Besieged in the same game and ironically it is fighting a Troll army so I wouldn't actually respond again until we have repelled their attack since their leader is here and three of our Generals have been captured).
I am speaking important things here. Vanilla WoW did what was best for mmorpg games. It created balance between unreasonable grinding and competitive content, then in 2008 when it was wotlk wow, activision company bought blizzard and started making changes.
Basically they started focusing on competitive gameplay only, farming gold and doing profession meant less and less with each expansion. Other companies followed that route since WoW had 100milion players (12mil active subs) and they were designing more and more mmos to look like lobby games with so much competition that it created a lot of toxicity in design.
What I wanted is to speak out and tell my view on this situation, basically because of mmorpg idea people became impatient and some became toxic. We see what is going on in WoW classic, because it is classic game, balance was not core philosophy and we see (I experienced) that people do not want to invite low dps specs to raids, even dungeons. This is all toxicity without chat (speaking)... so i wanted to tell my story. Might help someone.
I am speaking important things here. Vanilla WoW did what was best for mmorpg games. It created balance between unreasonable grinding and competitive content, then in 2008 when it was wotlk wow, activision company bought blizzard and started making changes.
Basically they started focusing on competitive gameplay only, farming gold and doing profession meant less and less with each expansion. Other companies followed that route since WoW had 100milion players (12mil active subs) and they were designing more and more mmos to look like lobby games with so much competition that it created a lot of toxicity in design.
What I wanted is to speak out and tell my view on this situation, basically because of mmorpg idea people became impatient and some became toxic. We see what is going on in WoW classic, because it is classic game, balance was not core philosophy and we see (I experienced) that people do not want to invite low dps specs to raids, even dungeons. This is all toxicity without chat (speaking)... so i wanted to tell my story. Might help someone.
Yeah, because of WoW people became impatient and toxic. We know that.
We played better games and didn't bother playing WoW.
Everything you say you want in games was done better in games before WoW.
You were just unlucky and ended up playing the one that ruined it all in the end.
I just don understand why some people didnt agree with me to make consumables meaningul, thats all what I was talking haha... makes no sense to hate someone because he is wow fan.
I just don understand why some people didnt agree with me to make consumables meaningul, thats all what I was talking haha... makes no sense to hate someone because he is wow fan.
I agree.
And I'm sorry (for what it's worth) that you got 'attacked' for your WoW stuff.
But you also got dismissed for not listening to the people who were trying to tell you things.
It is foolish to listen to one who will not listen to you. Do as you wish.
- Seijuro Hiko
(Rurouni Kenshin)
I'm just here being foolish as usual, hoping that you'll maybe STOP long enough to understand what people are telling you and move past the 'They attacked me for liking WoW!' thing.
I am just trying to put my perspective on MMO community because they either have to adapt or bounce from AoC.
Do you truly believe that players will wait for 4 hours fighting for PvE dungeon in open world or will they want their easy way all the time.
Honestly what I would want is to split community and have tighter AoC community rather then having theme park clown fiesta MMO...
I hope Steven does not mind if he makes 10mils each month or 50mills... because if he does, he would make clown fiesta here and he would not promise things that he did promise...
I am just trying to put my perspective on MMO community because they either have to adapt or bounce from AoC.
Do you truly believe that players will wait for 4 hours fighting for PvE dungeon in open world or will they want their easy way all the time.
Honestly what I would want is to split community and have tighter AoC community rather then having theme park clown fiesta MMO...
I hope Steven does not mind if he makes 10mils each month or 50mills... because if he does, he would make clown fiesta here and he would not promise things that he did promise...
Steven will make a great game.
He PROBABLY will not look at WoW very much, for reference on how to make it. He has better references. You just haven't played them.
Comments
Ok good. So, if everyone else in this thread has played MMOs that ALSO required you to do this, would you say that we are all equal in understanding to a serious MMO-conservative such as yourself?
If everyone that is talking about how WoW is not THAT great, also is saying this because they played games where you have to farm items to sell to other players, if you want Consumables, do you think maybe their opinions might make more sense?
I do agree at some point, although I still dont understand why you guys oppose this idea of grinding and sustaining your character.
Someone had an argument before that if consumables are expensive, everyone would master alchemy. That wasnt the case with WoW and it would not make big impact in AoC, because some people do not like idea of them being an alchemist. Another argument would be that everyone masters certain profession to give unique and profitable elements to other players, this is why there is mastering of professions in games like these.
You are just having difficulty seeing what we are talking about.
Lemme try the emotional attack angle.
WoW sucks FFXI does all that stuff but better.
EDIT: For all others, I'm about to go into an exaggerated trolling 'emo-attack' mode on purpose to see if it makes any difference. If you were not caring, please continue not caring, this is a caricature. If you were caring but leaving it to me (those people know who they are) you may now ignore this.
Good luck!
Nah, it was too easy.
I played a game with way more hardcore preparing. WoW was lame ez mode lol.
Final Fantasy XI.
I didn't play WoW because I was too busy getting ready to do content for the SECOND EXPANSION (technically first expansion in the Western release) of my objectively better game.
You only have to look at the Food. WoW's food system is lame, it's barely even an interesting consumable. FFXI's food system and potions are way better, and the game doesn't even drop gold from mobs except a few that drop like 20, and you need 2000 to buy food.
Mages conjuring food was a joke to me. Hard pass on that noise.
EDIT: Added links for you, you don't gotta use 'em.
People lost weeks of playing when trying to kill a boss or during sieges. Oh and all the best in the genre open world pvp too! That pvp was so damn good that Steven copied it almost 1-to-1.
And from what I've heard EQ1 was also way more hardcore than WoW and there were several pvp mmos at the time that were even more hardcore in their designs than L2 was.
And stuff like Runescape seems to have been the grindiest shit ever too.
In other words, a lot of people here despise WoW (or at least dislike such frequent mentions of it) exactly because WoW was the reason why every single god damn mmo became a walk in the park after it. WoW ruined mmos for all the grindlovers. So, Veko, if you say that you liked WoW's grind - some of us see you as nothing more than a mere casual who doesn't even know what real grind and hardcoreness means.
There it is, this is the truth about it!
WoW was the game for casuals, it was cute and at that time Warcraft was a huge franchise
Did you complain about MMOs being grindy and so that has to stop, you among many others that spoke to me via posts for these past few days.
I know that wow was easy, this is what I am telling this whole time. I just liked balance between grind and gameplay and fact that economy did not collapse once and that gokd was precious and it had a meaning.
I am new to MMOs I admit, I played wow for 15 years, but what I seen is that economy and worthiness of gold is a big problem in those mmos that I played recently. I stopped retail WoW because of that. Now I am playing gloria victis and only reason why I am still playing it is because gold feels worth. I also like GV because you farm silvers and not gold per hour. I like this realism very much.
But what if professions do not give skill ups, but instead we had to buy recipes for pricy number. Then overstacking at auction wont happen and there wont be economy drops? I just found a post on Pantheon: the rise of a fallen about this. Its much deeper then what I am saying, but this guy explained it very well. Maybe during crafts sometimes craft can fail and the more you craft the less chance to fail happens, or maybe you craft 4slot bags instead of 6 etc...
All that sort of stuff is 'what if' to you? Man, I pity WoW players...
Also lol at 'buy recipes'.
Y'all had it bad. I'm so sorry.
Back in MY DAY you had to wait FIFTEEN HOURS for the MOON PHASE to change so you could get the best chance of succeeding at a difficult crafting attempt.
My poor decision in playing the better game and never leaving it to play weaksauce nonsense?
I accept your pity wholeheartedly.
Superior to what? Get outta here with that nonsense. You basically started this. My FIRST post to you on this ENTIRE FORUM was to give you my sympathies. My SECOND post was to explain to you IN DETAIL why FFXI worked and how Ashes is likely to be similar to it.
You're the one here trolling, as far as I'm concerned. If you are ready to listen now, I'm happy to 'turn Troll mode back off'.
(Except that I'm about to go to a Besieged in the same game and ironically it is fighting a Troll army so I wouldn't actually respond again until we have repelled their attack since their leader is here and three of our Generals have been captured).
See ya in a bit. I have a city to save.
Basically they started focusing on competitive gameplay only, farming gold and doing profession meant less and less with each expansion. Other companies followed that route since WoW had 100milion players (12mil active subs) and they were designing more and more mmos to look like lobby games with so much competition that it created a lot of toxicity in design.
What I wanted is to speak out and tell my view on this situation, basically because of mmorpg idea people became impatient and some became toxic. We see what is going on in WoW classic, because it is classic game, balance was not core philosophy and we see (I experienced) that people do not want to invite low dps specs to raids, even dungeons. This is all toxicity without chat (speaking)... so i wanted to tell my story. Might help someone.
Yeah, because of WoW people became impatient and toxic. We know that.
We played better games and didn't bother playing WoW.
Everything you say you want in games was done better in games before WoW.
You were just unlucky and ended up playing the one that ruined it all in the end.
I agree.
And I'm sorry (for what it's worth) that you got 'attacked' for your WoW stuff.
But you also got dismissed for not listening to the people who were trying to tell you things.
It is foolish to listen to one who will not listen to you. Do as you wish.
- Seijuro Hiko
(Rurouni Kenshin)
I'm just here being foolish as usual, hoping that you'll maybe STOP long enough to understand what people are telling you and move past the 'They attacked me for liking WoW!' thing.
Do you truly believe that players will wait for 4 hours fighting for PvE dungeon in open world or will they want their easy way all the time.
Honestly what I would want is to split community and have tighter AoC community rather then having theme park clown fiesta MMO...
I hope Steven does not mind if he makes 10mils each month or 50mills... because if he does, he would make clown fiesta here and he would not promise things that he did promise...
Steven will make a great game.
He PROBABLY will not look at WoW very much, for reference on how to make it. He has better references. You just haven't played them.
That's all.
I hope consumables will be strong and rare.
For example I would want one potion to cost same amount of gold per hour farmed. I like this idea very much.