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Class/Weapon combination expectations

I have been thinking recently about what class I will want to play with which race and with which weapon. Based on the fact that you will be able to wear any armor and equip any weapon (with some restrictions based on ranged/melee and class abilities requiring a bow like Ranger PowerShot). What is your current expectations for viability of weapons and classes such as a two handed sword wielding Mage (making a sort of battle mage hybrid with the augment class being tank/fighter for example) or a Pike/Halberd wielding Cleric/X. Do you expect these to be miles worse than the "classic choices" of mage with a staff etc.

Comments

  • I'd expect augments to allow us use those combos and much more.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    I'd expect augments to allow us use those combos and much more.

    I am curious to see to what efficacy, this is obviously what betas and alphas are for from a balancing standpoint but I as a player would struggle to run some of these combos I find much more interesting (cleric/X with melee weapon like pike/greatsword) if it's literally just 25% worse than using a tome/staff or otherwise.

    I think it's a weird place to be where they will bring their own strengths and synergies, but might just not compete or be viable in small scale pvp for example.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nova_terra wrote: »
    I have been thinking recently about what class I will want to play with which race and with which weapon. Based on the fact that you will be able to wear any armor and equip any weapon (with some restrictions based on ranged/melee and class abilities requiring a bow like Ranger PowerShot). What is your current expectations for viability of weapons and classes such as a two handed sword wielding Mage (making a sort of battle mage hybrid with the augment class being tank/fighter for example) or a Pike/Halberd wielding Cleric/X. Do you expect these to be miles worse than the "classic choices" of mage with a staff etc.

    I expect them to be worse than the standard thing that will get you easy pickup groups... at doing the things basic pickup groups want.

    In MMOs that involve a lot of group play, the thing that tends to become 'Meta' is the thing that the majority of the population understands and can rely on, usually due to simplicity.

    If you find a random group 'looking for Cleric' and they DON'T mean 'look just keep the tank alive and maybe cleanse some debuffs and we're good, thanks', they would probably have stuck with whoever they met that did BETTER at that.

    Because it would be unrealistic to expect the others who are just 'trying to fit in and get groups' to have a specialized build ready.

    If we are LUCKY, the community will come up with some simple terms to distinguish a GreatSword Wielding Mage/Fighter from a Wand Wielding Mage/Fighter because those are PROBABLY going to play very differently.

    But I wouldn't personally expect the first to be worse. It's just that when you get invited, 'most people' probably aren't going to be expecting you to break out the GreatSword and start cleaving, and since you probably had to give up SOMETHING from the other option in order to do that, you might have some trouble then.

    Performance wise, I wouldn't expect them to be worse, though, I'd be pretty disappointed if they couldn't make most of them work.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Nova_terra wrote: »
    I have been thinking recently about what class I will want to play with which race and with which weapon. Based on the fact that you will be able to wear any armor and equip any weapon (with some restrictions based on ranged/melee and class abilities requiring a bow like Ranger PowerShot). What is your current expectations for viability of weapons and classes such as a two handed sword wielding Mage (making a sort of battle mage hybrid with the augment class being tank/fighter for example) or a Pike/Halberd wielding Cleric/X. Do you expect these to be miles worse than the "classic choices" of mage with a staff etc.

    there will always be things that are stronger. we don't know yet if having those combinations will be better than "classic choices" or not, however, steven said that if you pick the same 2nd archetype as your main, you are just making your class stronger in that role, rather than trying to move yourself a little to fulfill another role (hybridize). so I expect those combinations (or lack of) will be stronger if your goal is to play your role and just your role and don't try to hybridize.

    for example, a cleric/warrior will be able to do melee physical damage and heal, but it wont heal as much as a cleric/cleric or do as much damage as a warrior/warrior. so, if your goal is to just heal, then you would want to go cleric/cleric, and if you only want to do damage, then go warrior/warrior. but if your goal is to heal and do damage, a cleric/warrior would be better.
  • A bigger issue with finding groups, as per @Azherae ’s point, is determining the physical position someone’s playing in. So when we go looking for a PuG, we should be looking for a ranged dps, specifically. That opens many more doors than it closes.

    The problem with getting a battlemage instead of a sorcerer when you ask for a mage is that you might’ve expected a ranged dps and ended up with a melee dps. Having a proper formation of forces is key in a lot of PvE and PvP encounters. Having a frontline, back line, people who can flank, etc.

    Being able to ask for a ranged dps mage with a specialization in fire magic would be great, but it also greatly limits the pool of players you have to draw from. So I think we’re going to have to be more flexible with what archetype we ask for, and more focused on finding skilled players in specific combat roles that can span multiple archetypes with the introduction of augments.

    As for a combo I’d like to see - I always liked the concept of enhancement shaman in WoW. Melee weapon user who uses magic to empower / quicken their attacks with a couple instant cast spells to weave between melee attacks. Some people’s ideas of battlemages keep the melee and magic separate, but I think it’s interesting to try and mash them together. Although this usually requires the battlemage to have less armor than warriors, like chain or leather, since their attacks hit harder and deal magic damage in addition to melee.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nova_terra wrote: »
    I have been thinking recently about what class I will want to play with which race and with which weapon. Based on the fact that you will be able to wear any armor and equip any weapon (with some restrictions based on ranged/melee and class abilities requiring a bow like Ranger PowerShot). What is your current expectations for viability of weapons and classes such as a two handed sword wielding Mage (making a sort of battle mage hybrid with the augment class being tank/fighter for example) or a Pike/Halberd wielding Cleric/X. Do you expect these to be miles worse than the "classic choices" of mage with a staff etc.

    Its not really any class any weapon if you're forced to use a weapon for an ability, it's more like any weapon can be equipped, not all weapons have equal usefulness and usage.

    If they're going to stick to that route I rather they just weapon lock the classes.

  • IskiabIskiab Member
    edited November 2022
    I think it'll all come down to how stats work. If you're a cleric and the weapon is just a stat stick then the weapon won't really matter. I don't think there are weapon abilities, so really what you can use will depend on if there will be the weapon you want with the stats you want.

    In ESO I played a nightblade healer, I like the aesthetic of a cleric/rogue so hopefully a cleric with daggers will work.

    If daggers with healer stats drops it would make some people grumpy, someone mentioned augments or a way to change the stats on weapons? Hopefully they implement something like that.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think it'll all come down to how stats work. If you're a cleric and the weapon is just a stat stick then the weapon won't really matter. I don't think there are weapon abilities, so really what you can use will depend on if there will be the weapon you want with the stats you want.

    In ESO I played a nightblade healer, I like the aesthetic of a cleric/rogue so hopefully a cleric with daggers will work.

    Daggers with healer stats will make some people grumpy, someone mentioned augments or a way to change the stats on weapons? Hopefully they implement something like that.

    I'm really hoping for a good 'Stat Slot' style design, otherwise I would figure that a lot of it is going to be very disappointing.

    But perhaps Intrepid will come up with something far beyond even that, which no one has thought of before.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited November 2022
    Cool off hand weapons with their own skills:
    • Net: aplplies slow on movement and attack
    • Whip: pulls one target, damage all along the way
    • One hand crossbow: small damage, fast reload
    • Kusarigama: limits the distance the target can get away from you, the target could slowly drag you tough and you could drag the target too if you go in the other direction... like a tug of war
    • Spiked shield: for bashing and defense
    • Lantern: cold resist and also applies fire damage
  • Azherae wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think it'll all come down to how stats work. If you're a cleric and the weapon is just a stat stick then the weapon won't really matter. I don't think there are weapon abilities, so really what you can use will depend on if there will be the weapon you want with the stats you want.

    In ESO I played a nightblade healer, I like the aesthetic of a cleric/rogue so hopefully a cleric with daggers will work.

    Daggers with healer stats will make some people grumpy, someone mentioned augments or a way to change the stats on weapons? Hopefully they implement something like that.

    I'm really hoping for a good 'Stat Slot' style design, otherwise I would figure that a lot of it is going to be very disappointing.

    But perhaps Intrepid will come up with something far beyond even that, which no one has thought of before.

    I would love to see how they decide to do it, but I have to agree that I think if they don't opt for a stat slot design or a fresh design that rewards experimentation you will find 90% of possible options will just boil down to "I am making an active choice to play at a disadvantage based on running weapons that just operate worse in X or Y functions because I like this. I know there are weapon skills that might adjust how a cleric/fighter works compared to a cleric/cleric or whatever but good system design would look at me choosing a pike weapon for my Cleric/fighter and have a wide swath of skills that lets me experiment and is balanced in a way that gives me something different than say a cleric/cleric with a tome or whatever.
  • weapons will not have active skills, they will have passives and triggers.

    i suppose the passives and triggers will change depending on your class, to make each weapon useable by each class, depending on your build
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