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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I apologize for my late reply.
I would prefer a rich assortment of materials, as long as they make sense.
A reusable tier system for the different categories of materials, and a certain sense of logic added to material requirements in crafting. Example:
Categories:
Minerals, Metals, Precious Metals, Gemstones, Wood, Fibre, Hide, Bones, Scales, Herbs, Petals, Seeds, etc.
Tiers:
Level and/or skillbased + rarity
A crude axe could require common wood, metal and fibre.
A high quality axe could require higher tier materials in addition to rare precious metals for adonerments.
Metals and precious metals could be tied into the same character/skill level tiers, where metal is common and precious metal is uncommon or even rare.
Minerals and gemstones could be mined from the same nodes, where minerals are common and gemstones are rare.
Too few materials, too many crossover uses, and too few tiers would cheapen the crafting experience, much like it was in New World, where the same metal was the top tier for both metals and precious metals, used in smithing and jewelry alike.
Would you like to see a wide variety of materials that can be used for specific things, or fewer materials that can be used for a wide variety of things?
Wouldn't mind lot's of different items but fewer is probably easier to balance and also less work to get the underlying system regarding the materials/gathering/processing side of things right.
Some of my points might not seem very much relevant or easy to look over but as an economic geologist I can't help but to point out a few factual details regarding mining.
As in any MMO the meta usually goes as such : gathering -> processing (optional) -> product used in recipe
And that's what happening IRL.
Before I go in right off the bat I want to mention that crushing, extraction/separation and refining are all included in processing, and in that order specifically although you could see it as a sort of spectrum. Usually in MMOs they get it right at the crushing and refining part but usually oversimplify or omit on the extraction part.
In reality extraction is the most complex process because there are so many different ways an element/metal or compound/mineral can be extracted/separated from the ore (by eliminating the gangue material). But to put it simply, and there is no need to make it more complex than it needs to be, it branches out from mechanical, chemical or thermal processes (ie. gravity, dissolution or heat respectively).
After saying this I want to mention I am by no means a metallurgist but I find this field very interesting and there are a couple things I could point out regarding the game that I have noticed so far.
So far, the 'Metalworking' workstations really are different types of smelters (hardcore ovens) used for both extraction/refining (ie. smelter, kiln and furnace) all at once.
Now from what I've seen there are around half a dozen sorts of ores and most of them using IRL terminology such as basalt, granite and I find this really exciting because so many products can be extracted from those 2. I was even more excited when I saw that copper and zinc came out of the basalt because that's the type of rock you typically find those metals.
As you might know from other games or IRL, casted copper and zinc gives you brass. For instance this process would realistically happen in one of the Metalworking workstations which could be used for the casting, and this is great.
But if we go back just a bit and think about the ore and the metals that were 'extracted' from the basalt. Both came right off from the outcrop!! How did that happen? And the answer is, it's a video game dude. Alright but how much more work is it to name an actual copper ore or a zinc ore than it is to just simply copper ore or zinc ore. Copper ore could be named chalchopyrite, cuprite, malachite or any one of the dozen types of real life copper ores/minerals that are already well documented. Of which some are already known to be commonly found in basalt rocks such as chalcopyrite, bornite to name two of them.
To be fair, you can find copper of its own by smacking rocks around and it is referred to as 'native' copper but there is no shot you will get native zinc it just can't happen, only as an alloy and in trace amount.
Here's a list of the most common native elements minerals that you can find in large amounts in different types of rocks:
Iron (meteorite)
Gold (quartz veins, panning)
Silver (quartz vein, metamorphic rock)
Electrum which is a naturally occurring gold/silver alloy (trace in quartz veins)
Copper (quartz veins, basalt)
Platinum group elements (but I wouldn't go that way as it get ugly fast)
Just to recap, all the above metals can be found in the field theoretically with an hammer, like for real
I don't want to go too deep in petrology but essentially all metals are found in proximity to two types of of very different rocks if you will, and it is pretty much already nailed in with basalt and granite so that's awesome.
Now so much can be done just from those two. Could there be an RNG or skill requirement that make you drop specific minerals/ores to be later processed? (unlike the native ones).
Could you make quartz veins occur in any rocks? Absolutely, and subsequently with that quartz you can get it processed to get x y or z in workstation a b or c as pretty much any metal occur in quartz veins. But the thing is that quartz veins usually need methods of processing other than heat/thermal.
Following that vein (pun intended), personally I would love to see some type of extraction that uses gravity and/or chemistry. I don't think it's hard to implement and it would follow IRL mining science.
For example, a strong acid will dissolve silicates (granite or basalt) but not the metals. The workstation could be a tank leach and used to process ores to rare metals.
Gravity process is quite common in the industry. They use shaking tables(dry) or jigging machines(with water) to recover heavy metals or minerals such as gold, diamonds, tin minerals (found in copper ores, used for bronze), chrome(chromite), to name a few.
It would probably be a novelty in a MMO game but you could tell me I'm wrong.
On a side note, I don't mind fantasy related terminology like mythril and such but it doesn't take away that if IRL materials are being worked with I'm pretty certain there is value into making it right according to the science behind it.
And again, to the initial question, I would love to see as many different types of materials but complexity adds up and has to be accounted for. This being said, I trust that if at least the underpinning mechanisms are realistic, anything that follows will make it a better experience for everyone. To be concrete, find a number of materials with the community to begin with, then work your way down using real life terminology. It can be anywhere from 10 different mats to w/e, but it can be done right and actually informative.
Evidently this could seem like a rabbit hole because of the complexity behind mining science but in the case this is appealing I'd be pleased to follow up on any question if clarifications are needed or if you would like a more detailed suggestion.
TLDR: Fewer or more, doesn't matter. Add debt and realism, be novel. Unlike copper, zinc don't fall off basalt in the field. Suggestion: use a tank leach workstation to extract it
I understand I have no idea how to design a crafting system, so I can't speak to that, but the biggest issues that I've had with crafting systems has been how far off from reality they were.
Why create dozens of different metals or blade materials, or woods, when you can use fewer mats, but create alloys, joinery, or laminates. How many alloys can you get from tin, copper, iron? Now add in the inclusion of monster parts to the list of materials and you have a huge list of mats, that are still approachable by not hiding ores in high level areas. Let the monster parts be the shit you add to make the higher grade items. I don't know how many times Ive been level capped in crafting by not being able to go gather resources because I was too low for an area. I should be able to create a long sword anyone can use, but if i get a monster drop, then I could create a chill touched sword from an ice wrath tooth or something.
Along with that, I have always found the jump in knowledge of recipes and skills to have always been weird. How does crafting 50 maces teach you how to shape and craft a helm, or multi-jointed gauntlets?
I kind of like the way Banner Lords handles their crafting where the length, shape, and design of the blades, handles, or whatever, affect the difficulty. Example: Hardening a longer blade takes more skill to keep it from warping or cracking during the quench than making a knife blade.
I also like the idea of specialization and skill trees, kind of like how SW Galaxies handled it, where you would go and buy a barrel someone made, and then a handle made by someone else and so on. It made the whole crafting system more... worth while.
I also like how people would entertain or whatever to give buffs for tips. It made it more immersive to have to engage with another player who's character was specialized in giving buffs.
That's just my two cents.
Respectfully
Me
1- It greatly enhances gameplay depth and complexity:
Lots of games are trying to oversimplify everything, but actually, a big part of players enjoy some depth to systems for them to get a sense of progression in knowledge and skills that give them an edge over other players that didn't make the effort to learn that knowledge. Complexity = engagement and interest
Players have also to then make more strategic decisions as to where to farm for example and how to manage different resources etc.. which introduces depth of gameplay
Scarcity is sexy, finding/making specialized materials is more challenging and thus more rewarding when done successfully
2- Encourages exploration and discovery
Specialized resources when spread across different regions and creatures encourage players to move to specific nodes for a resource etc.. solving the problem of players only staying within the node they are a citizen in if they can get most of the materials from it.
3- Promotes specialized crafting and customization
I personally am not a fan of games where every max-level player of the same class is wearing the same thing or when there are only 3 sets of items per class. It makes the gearing feel shallow and forced and crafting tasteless and useless if everyone is crafting and wearing the same thing.
Having a large palette of potential equipment that is close in power level but more horizontally different allows for customization and build diversity providing more satisfaction, a sense of achievement, and immersion within the game. Having different specialized materials to craft different equipment creates again more depth in the game world. I reaaaaaally hope AoC has a large variety of viable equipment for each slot, especially at max level
4- Makes the economy always fresh and gives players opportunities to have an edge
Different materials can have varying levels of rarity and value (across resources not rarities of each material), creating a dynamic in-game economy.
Also, I strongly believe the more complex systems a game has, the bigger its longevity as players have more to improve on and explore, and inversely the more a game has simplistic systems, the quicker players get bored from it