Itemization, watch this video devs please.

This might be stupid for some, but it made some items so memorable even today after people tried many MMOs they remember some of these items and memories they had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUz6uStM_8

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Ludullu

Ashes is already kinda going that way. Everyone can wear anything. I just hope Intrepid doesn't design OP shit that you have to use for 4 fucking years just because it's that OP.

Arya_Yeshe

/close

Talents

>classic WoW

Instantly closed the vid.

VekoKrava

Why this kind of attitude? Game had some amazing designs...

Azherae

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

Why this kind of attitude? Game had some amazing designs...

We all think that about games we enjoy/enjoyed.

Sometimes other people have played better designs and don't agree because they have things to compare to.

Sometimes you have to learn from the people who come from other games, the strengths and weaknesses of those games. It is only through this that the perfect MMO can one day be made, forged from the experiences and genre-love we all share.

Join us. Cast off your chains and be free in the new era. Rise from the Ashes of Creation to take the Throne, and Liberty will usher in a new ArcheAge.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

Join us. Cast off your chains and be free in the new era. Rise from the Ashes of Creation to take the Throne, and Liberty will usher in a new ArcheAge.

I think Bethesda’s marketing department could use you, @Azherae. 🤗

Depraved

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

This might be stupid for some, but it made some items so memorable even today after people tried many MMOs they remember some of these items and memories they had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUz6uStM_8

I swear u work for blizzard and ur just trying to poach players

VekoKrava

No, I love unique itemization. Feels old-school and epic when you can remember every item name. He speaks about building your character, will you take spirit to sustain hp/mana regen and have less drinking/eating between mobs or will you take more damage, how will you take damage, will it be for beasts or normal damage, but less then if you took only for beasts...

I am honest with you guys, I did not try many MMOs, but those that I tried sucked very hard from all perspectives that is: economy, itemization and not so unique classes. Gw2 has some great buff variations, but of all buffs I think quickness is the most important if not only important buff because it adds so much to damage, so much that you only need quickness buff heroes as supports. WoW had different approach, not always you would want a shadow priest, but you would want one per group where healers are for mana regen, or you would want paladin for stats 10% buff...etc... These are all old-school ideas, and MMOs were different back then, but what MMOs did wrong is that they followed WoWs footstep to make game more casual-friendly, open world was not like EQ99 with hard mobs, but more casual. They did all this, but they didn't make simple small steps of making game like WoW, some would argue that then game would not be the same, I agree to some point, but if you make itemization boring, how will that game be unique. Or if you don't make professions matter while leveling, wheres that RPG vibe to that game then, it does not exist...

VekoKrava

I also love how quests were designed in WoW, it made my day go by with so many relaxed emotions, it felt cozy to play it. Quests did not take 5min to finish, they were ''boring'' to many impatient people, but I remember taking some quests that takes you to walk to other city for 20-30mins because you did not unlocked flying there, just to hand in some item that also has a story behind it.

I liked how dungeon quests were always in some isolated areas in city, if you played game for 15 years straight you might have something that you did not finish. For me that means masterpiece of a game, skyrim is similar when it comes to quests, as if they designed game that does not have this module - finish this, then finish that, it was old-fashioned and it gives so much more then if it was designed like a business model, at least for me..

Noaani

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

Why this kind of attitude? Game had some amazing designs...

Based on what Azherae said a few posts above, when you take in how much general dislike there is towards WoW as a whole, you should come to the understanding that it really wasnt a good game.

Thing is, that doesnt mean you aren't allowed to like it - you absolutely are allowed. All it means is that you should know that you like it in spite of its many failings and issues - you shouldnt just be blind to them.

An example of this would be McDonalds. I quite like a quarter pounder from there, and have one every few months or so (about as often as I am able to eat fast food, really). I know they aren't overly good burgers, I know I could make a better burger myself. However, I still unapologetically enjoy a quarter pounder when I am in a position to have one. Others will no doubt say they are trash, and honestly I agree with them - but I still like them.

You are absolutely allowed to enjoy WoW. I dont think anyone is actually saying you shouldnt like it. Just that you need to be as aware of what other games did better.

VekoKrava

I understand, its fine... you don't like WoW, but not a single reason I got as why you don't like wow, like precise reasons. Arya spoke about asmongold video about wow, but I think he was talking about modern WoW, I am talking about the oldest version of wow, the first release not any newer expansion, even not burning crusade / TBC which was their first expansion that ruined many things, especially not Wotlk which destroyed every RPG element in WoW, many WoW players would not agree with me, but they are the worst of the worst community out there, only caring about competitive side of gaming, I hate them, they are always angry, full of themselves and not reasonable to talk with because they only look from perspective of competitive gameplay. They do stuff like going to a 10man raid, then day after going to a 25man raid (same raid), then going on alt and doing that for 3 alts for a whole week, and they think wotlk is the best because you can do so many raids. Thats their reason for wotlk being the best, they do not like vanilla prep before raids, they all want ''free'' stuff without effort, just basically que lobby game.

Ironhope

I agree with the video's point.

The atitude of people refusing to even consider the point because of wow-phobia is just aberrant.

Items should be unique and interesting and this should be the case with as many items as possible, including leveling items.

It's an rpg.

Ludullu

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

many WoW players would not agree with me, but they are the worst of the worst community out there, only caring about competitive side of gaming, I hate them, they are always angry, full of themselves and not reasonable to talk with because they only look from perspective of competitive gameplay. They do stuff like going to a 10man raid, then day after going to a 25man raid (same raid), then going on alt and doing that for 3 alts for a whole week, and they think wotlk is the best because you can do so many raids. Thats their reason for wotlk being the best, they do not like vanilla prep before raids, they all want ''free'' stuff without effort, just basically que lobby game.

And some non-WoW players want the same thing. And it's not "free", it's just not tedious pointless grinding for the sake of grinding.

I'd rather have weak pots that you can get pretty quickly and/or stronger pots that just require you to kill a difficult mob/boss. So instead of grinding several hours I'd just need to prove that I have enough skill to receive the reward. But even then, imo those strong pots should be craftable so that I could just go and buy them from someone or my guildmates would be working on crafting them instead of killing mobs and we'd just trade gear for pots.

The main argument against your suggestion of pots, from what I've seen, has been "I don't want to grind more than the content that I grinded for". And there are ways to achieve that while also keeping the value of pots or buffs or whatever.

Arya_Yeshe

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

Why this kind of attitude? Game had some amazing designs...

Because it's WoW, even tough Itemization brings an interesting uniqueness, it also demands extensive grinds for gear or gold so you can get that set you are looking for and it could simply turn out to be crap or you can't adapt to that horrendous playstyle... which is fine, but it's just sad when it doesn't work out

But if it works out for you, then it means someone else is getting pooped on and the victim won't even understand what happened for months

This also brings an very high amount of items in the containers, I don't know yet how good is the inventory/containers system in AoC

I'm not against Itemization even tough I said all those things, it's just that you bring WoW stuff non stop that is the game which literally killed the MMO RPG genre by turnning grind into today's standard... it is WoW that fermented the carebeareness in our planet

What you should have done when you opened the topic, instead of bringing more WoW poop, is checking out which are AoC stats and try to figure out Itemization for AoC... than people would be interested in such conversation... but you already opened the thread the wrong way

Does Itemization rewards creativity?
Yes

Could Itemization work for AoC?
Maybe yes

Should AoC have a good amount of Itemization Aoc?
Yes

Should we look at WoW as reference?
Definitely not

Should AoC look for a Itemization that is suited for AoC?
Definitey yes

VekoKrava

I dont understand none of your arguments @Arya_Yeshe . There is a video explaining everything that I could speak in a very long post... isnt it more convenient to just watch a damn video and not judge it for sake that it is about WoW...
....
Also EQ99 was way more hard core then vanilla wow, what wow did is that it set up a new standard for mmk games which are way more convenient. Even vanilla was soft compsred to EQ99....

Arya_Yeshe

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

I dont understand none of your arguments @Arya_Yeshe . There is a video explaining everything that I could speak in a very long post... isnt it more convenient to just watch a damn video and not judge it for sake that it is about WoW...
....
Also EQ99 was way more hard core then vanilla wow, what wow did is that it set up a new standard for mmk games which are way more convenient. Even vanilla was soft compsred to EQ99....

I fully watched the video you posted and I even read 2 articles about Itemization and I pulled my memories about it when I played PvP in Vanilla WoW

If you read my post you would see I am in favor of Itemization
I'm just against using WoW as a reference, I think it suits AoC finding it's own path in this

Arya_Yeshe

Also, if you complain that someone posts ONE long post after you complaining about short posts like "no" or "close"... than it's you who is at fault

And if you don't have to scroll the window for reading a post, then the post is not long

Rhorden

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

Why this kind of attitude? Game had some amazing designs...

The video made a good point about the uncertainty of how to gear. It is a testament to how in depth the design of the game was and the insane amount of possibilities. It would benefit AoC if they were that in depth in their own design and are willing to take risks doing it. It was a lot of fun mixing and matching items to come up with something unique that worked really well that others had not seen before. It was even more fun watching people panic when their normal counters didn't work.
As for the haters rocking their colon hats, just ignore them. Most of them are fanbois that can't stomach the idea of anyone having a different opinion than them. When you mention WoW they tune out because they don't have the reference of playing back when the game was good, even though they pretend to, and all they can do is trash talk because they can't form any valid points to have a dialogue that would have a beneficial impact on the development of AoC. You can spot it right away when they automatically discount any idea or game design just because it came from WoW. Every game has its good and bad attributes. To write off all concepts from any game, especially the most played MMO of all time by a VERY large margin, proves this point. Just keep posting and avoid the short bus riders.
The video and idea you are trying to convey is relevant and useful. If you have more please share. Don't be discouraged by that type of feed back. Don't try to defend your post to the obviously biased, they aren't here to make the best game. They just like to trash on anything they don't understand. Focus on the the people willing to engage in meaningful dialogue, ignore the rest.

VekoKrava

Thanks, I do not want for them to copy all items, but to make items unique in their own ways... why would I want them to copy same items, I did not aim for that...

Noaani

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

I understand, its fine... you don't like WoW, but not a single reason I got as why you don't like wow, like precise reasons.

WoW's combat and itemization have always been sub par compared to its contemporaries.

It was absolutely viable on some classes in vanilla WoW to hit max output using only three abilities. To many players, this is unacceptable.

Itemization in WoW was basically never really up to the player. You were kind of just handed the appropriate gear for your class as you leveled, and from dungeons and raids at the level cap. There was literally no need to ever actually consider what your class needs in terms.of gear.

The quests in WoW were ok, but by no means the most engaging of it's time - nor was it close to the game with the most quests. EQ2, released just weeks before WoW, had exponentially more quests at launch than WoW had, with the bulk of quests being of about the same quality. However, that game also had major quests throughout the game that were a step above any quests WoW has ever added to the game.

The next major thing about WoW that I specifically did not like, although it kind of encompasses much of the above, is that it treats its players as if they are stupid. Everything about the game comes across as assuming players dont know how to play an RPG at all. This makes some sense when you consider that Warcraft 3 was created the way it was (specifically its heros) in order to give Warcraft players exposure to that kind of thing, and Blizzard simply assumed WoW would be full of players from Warcraft, and had to find a way to transition them in to a new genre.

There are other things about the game I didn't like, but they all consist of comparisons to the games contemporaries, and if you had no exposure to other MMO's of the time, you are unlikely to understand.

Back in 2017 and 2018, intrepid were saying they wanted to "make MMO's great again". To many people, this didnt mean "bring things back to vanilla WoW", it meant "let's try and get rid of WoW's influence on the MMO genre".

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