How would you like Hunting to work?

With tree chopping, rock mining and erm... apple bush harvesting on display last Dev Update. I've been thinking about what would make an ideal "Hunting" system. New World is often held as a benchmark for gathering but I've always felt that the animals, be they boars or crocs, vanishing into the ether upon being successfully skinned could be further developed.

Use a bear as an example. I think it would be cool if you could agro the bear, kill it and then when hovering your cursor over the corpse the choice of Head/Hide presented itself.

Selecting Head would trigger a skinning animation and upon completion of the little circle, you had a bear's head in your inventory. You could then trigger the skinning animation again to gather the creature's hide. This would change the model into a flayed, red sinewy version of itself. You could then trigger the skinning animation again to pocket meat. This would change the model into a skeleton. You could then trigger the animation a final time to gather the bones.

Head: Could be used in crafting trophies/busts and for different quests. (Bring me the head of this beast!)
You could also incorporate them into the ingredient lists for certain consumables. (Some weird and wacky potions or meals)

Hide: Could be refined into leather. Or used in the creation of pelt rugs/cloaks.

Meat: Can be eaten raw for a small HP boost. Cooked for a greater HP boost. Used in recipes for consumables, as feed for certain livestock and as bait.

Bones: Can be used as ingredients for potions/stews. Elements in crafting furniture or buildings. (Ren'Kai, Mammoth tusk 4 poster bed, please! :P)

You could also add a small RNG chance of an egg or "baby" dropping upon death that could be taken by the player to their freehold and raised into a mount or combat pet or to be used to "donate" to a land management system.

A hunter's log/ bestiary that has all of the various fauna (and other things) across Vera blocked out and as you kill one it is revealed. You could add achievements at the x10, x100, and x1000 kill points for that mob and have a Golden Bust Statue of that creature as a reward.

When it comes to land management and a Nodes ZOI I think players should be able to contribute/donate certain animal types. (Which would incentivize people to raise and hold different types of animal) To increase or potentially decrease the levels of fauna within that zone.

Fishing is a whole other topic, but in the last Dev Talk when they mentioned panning for gold. It gave me hope that they will explore some different ways to fish. Such as spear fishing, using nets and cages with ships, underwater fishing as well as rods of course.

What things would you like to see in the Hunting system? Do you think these suggestions would be too arduous and step-heavy? Do you think people would prefer a more simple 'Kill, Click, Equip' approach seen in most other MMO's?

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Ludullu

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

What things would you like to see in the Hunting system? Do you think these suggestions would be too arduous and step-heavy? Do you think people would prefer a more simple 'Kill, Click, Equip' approach seen in most other MMO's?

I expect it to go from simple to complex with your artisan lvls.

CROW3

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

What things would you like to see in the Hunting system? Do you think these suggestions would be too arduous and step-heavy? Do you think people would prefer a more simple 'Kill, Click, Equip' approach seen in most other MMO's?

Select ‘RDR2_Hunting_System’
Ctrl+C
Select ‘Ashes_Hunting_System’
Ctrl+V

Arya_Yeshe

I would like to know more about the economy before thinking about faucets

for example: will NPCs buy anything from the players in infinite quantities?

George_Black

I would like it to be tied to the combat class, not a separate activity, like gathering, crafting, fishing.

Rhorden

It's just a gathering system. Doubt there will be much complexity to it but if there was it would be a nice, welcome change. I'm not holding my breath though.
The main thing I hope to see is being able to get trophies to mount on a wall, or rugs, and not the generic, lazy "every animal has the exact same trophy regardless of animal size, shape, coloring, weight, etc" design that too many games go with. Would be nice to find that one massive bear that stands 3ft taller than others or that buck with a really impressive rack to hang on a wall. Not saying this needs to be a hunting game but last time I went to the woods the deer don't all look identical.
This could also play into how much you can harvest from that animal as well.

Other thought is will there be diseased animals? Would they give something different?

Would they give no usable items but still be in your interest to kill so they don't further contaminate the the animal population and in turn driving down the available mats and skyrocketing the cost of said mats?

Would typical docile animals that run from people now be aggressive and attack? If they did could you contract the a disease? Rabies anyone? Could you spread it?

RDR2 had a pretty good concept but the execution of that system had a lot of stupidity tied to it. Please don't do that.

What ever they come up with I hope they innovate. A lot of things I have seen from AoC seems to be a close copy from something else with minor changes. They should be striving to not just set the bar, but in some areas redefine it.

Oh yea, apple bushes LOL.

CROW3

Rhorden wrote: »

RDR2 had a pretty good concept but the execution of that system had a lot of stupidity tied to it. Please don't do that.

I’m curious. What did you find stupid?

Rhorden

CROW3 wrote: »

Rhorden wrote: »

RDR2 had a pretty good concept but the execution of that system had a lot of stupidity tied to it. Please don't do that.

I’m curious. What did you find stupid?

Honestly it's been awhile since I played it and I have since uninstalled it so the issues aren't on the tip of my tongue but;
Off the top of my head I didn't like how animals were outlined, every animal looked the same, I remember something about the way the camera acted but I can't recall specifics - maybe it was standing vs being in the wagon and shooting? Not sure. I do remember running across bugs - could have been in the port to PS4 or just rockstar itself, and something about the aiming from the wagon and shots not registering.

Like I said they had a good concept, I just didn't like the execution of it. When it worked right and the stupidity wasn't showing, the actual hunting part was fun.

neuroguy

I kind of had a similar idea back in the day, it was pretty well received too. It would be cool to select what resource you gather and get a bonus to it if you sacrifice other potential resources. Also love and support the idea of not having generic 'leather' look or so.

CROW3

Rhorden wrote: »

Off the top of my head I didn't like how animals were outlined, every animal looked the same, I remember something about the way the camera acted but I can't recall specifics - maybe it was standing vs being in the wagon and shooting? Not sure. I do remember running across bugs - could have been in the port to PS4 or just rockstar itself, and something about the aiming from the wagon and shots not registering.

Like I said they had a good concept, I just didn't like the execution of it. When it worked right and the stupidity wasn't showing, the actual hunting part was fun.

I wonder if we're talking about two completely different games. I'm not discounting your observations and opinion, it just literally doesn't sound like RDR2 at all. None of the animals are outlined, there is incredible biodiversity across like 5 biomes (alpine, low mountain, grasslands, temperate forest, and swamp/wetland), and you're not limited to hunting from any fixed position (aka from wagons).

Here's a brief (non-exhaustive) run down of facets to the RDR2 hunting system:

Skinning / Pelting / Plucking
Differentiation between animal skins and carcasses
Scent direction (w/cover to scent)
Tracking & trailing
Species identification
Call out (get attention for a head shot)
Animal quality
Baiting (predator / herbivore)
Different animals require different ammunition to maximize quality
Vital zones for kill shots (with dead eye)
Different locations to carry different animal products on both your character and your mount
Realistic animal behavior as reactions to your toon
Realistic social animal behavior (herding, flocking, & predating)
+ more

novercalis

on paper, I like it.

it is kinda silly to skin/gather meats, bones, head etc in 5 seconds and have it in ur inventory. But also being too realistic in time is a bad thing as well.

20-30 seconds to accomplish things would feel right with a system like that. Just make it make sense.

Same goes for chopping trees. 3-5 hits and a tree fall and you got 100 wood in your bag... like really? atleast let the chopping be 10-15 seconds, then another 10-15 seconds breaking the tree up (ala valheim) for wood.

rocks - break the outer layer, find whats inside then continue to mine away.

thus this also slows down the consumption rate of players vs environment.
And thus make land management meaningful, since 1 person cant destroy an eco system. the landscape changes slowly unlike new world, in 3 min, an entire forest is gone.

JamesSunderland

I don't think over complications are required in that gathering system as it already has a combat system layer to it.

Arya_Yeshe

Well... in a MMO RPG I think it's good enough being able to gather materials from a carcass, tracking and capturing

and people who aren't hunters maybe should just gather half the materials

Btw, maybe the animals should receive some behaviour too, since hunting is about 50% the animal and 50% the hunter

VekoKrava

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

With tree chopping, rock mining and erm... apple bush harvesting on display last Dev Update. I've been thinking about what would make an ideal "Hunting" system. New World is often held as a benchmark for gathering but I've always felt that the animals, be they boars or crocs, vanishing into the ether upon being successfully skinned could be further developed.

Use a bear as an example. I think it would be cool if you could agro the bear, kill it and then when hovering your cursor over the corpse the choice of Head/Hide presented itself.

Selecting Head would trigger a skinning animation and upon completion of the little circle, you had a bear's head in your inventory. You could then trigger the skinning animation again to gather the creature's hide. This would change the model into a flayed, red sinewy version of itself. You could then trigger the skinning animation again to pocket meat. This would change the model into a skeleton. You could then trigger the animation a final time to gather the bones.

Head: Could be used in crafting trophies/busts and for different quests. (Bring me the head of this beast!)
You could also incorporate them into the ingredient lists for certain consumables. (Some weird and wacky potions or meals)

Hide: Could be refined into leather. Or used in the creation of pelt rugs/cloaks.

Meat: Can be eaten raw for a small HP boost. Cooked for a greater HP boost. Used in recipes for consumables, as feed for certain livestock and as bait.

Bones: Can be used as ingredients for potions/stews. Elements in crafting furniture or buildings. (Ren'Kai, Mammoth tusk 4 poster bed, please! :P)

You could also add a small RNG chance of an egg or "baby" dropping upon death that could be taken by the player to their freehold and raised into a mount or combat pet or to be used to "donate" to a land management system.

A hunter's log/ bestiary that has all of the various fauna (and other things) across Vera blocked out and as you kill one it is revealed. You could add achievements at the x10, x100, and x1000 kill points for that mob and have a Golden Bust Statue of that creature as a reward.

When it comes to land management and a Nodes ZOI I think players should be able to contribute/donate certain animal types. (Which would incentivize people to raise and hold different types of animal) To increase or potentially decrease the levels of fauna within that zone.

Fishing is a whole other topic, but in the last Dev Talk when they mentioned panning for gold. It gave me hope that they will explore some different ways to fish. Such as spear fishing, using nets and cages with ships, underwater fishing as well as rods of course.

What things would you like to see in the Hunting system? Do you think these suggestions would be too arduous and step-heavy? Do you think people would prefer a more simple 'Kill, Click, Equip' approach seen in most other MMO's?

These ideas sound very good to me, but what if they added decay to materials. Search for more on gloris victis MMO, they have that design and it works so good. Animal parts that decay turn to materials used for making crops grow faster.

Azherae

Having thought about it a lot now... I still kinda don't know.

Skinning beasts seems like it should be possible/part of this. But unlike 'drops from at-level mobs' with reduction from lower levels, skinning things you kill would be easy and lead to potential oversupply of hides like certain other games I'm tired of mentioning.

Also at least for my immersion, I'm easily convinced that 'not every thing you kill actually has usable hide' because the act of fighting it is likely to damage the hide and you just get 'lucky' if not. Which would mean a 'trapping' system or some bonus to that STYLE of drop for certain types of kill would be good, while still keeping the limit on it.

So you could 'trap' beasts, kill them somehow and get good hide, or 'get the drop by luck', but just 'you killed it, click to skin it' worries me a bit.

As for the parts, this is one of the few things BDO does RIGHT, in that you can get the head, hide, and meat from one kill. Unfortunately it's stuck behind 'Matchlock hunting' which had to create a subset of creatures that don't take regular damage and HAVE to be shot with the Matchlock because clearly they are nigh-invulnerable to everything except good old BULLETS.

Oh and the idiocy of 'my friend shoots the creature but because I do the gathering on it I get the Hunting Exp'. Super useful tho.

For Hunting to be a PROFESSION I feel that it has to be based around trapping, tracking, and MAYBE Skinning/processing the creatures. Special herds of creatures that regular combatants can't touch seems silly to me, but I can also see a Hunter being 'griefed' by someone who 'spooks it and stops them from being able to trap or track it'.

This is one of the few places in the game where I think a specific type of instancing might be better. Being able to track a creature, get a 'key item', then place your trap and 'spawn' an instanced version would be good, I think.

Then after maybe 2 minutes if you failed to trap it properly, it just moves to an open-world spawn and anyone can kill it or help you kill it. You set the trap beforehand. Your failure condition (based on whatever) is just your (or someone else's) content. If no one is around and you wanted to fight it head on, just wait 2 minutes.

I think I'd find it fun to help out Hunter friends with this, but I mention all this because I feel like Hunting as a Profession doesn't work as well in an open world game.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

As for the parts, this is one of the few things BDO does RIGHT, in that you can get the head, hide, and meat from one kill. Unfortunately it's stuck behind 'Matchlock hunting' which had to create a subset of creatures that don't take regular damage and HAVE to be shot with the Matchlock because clearly they are nigh-invulnerable to everything except good old BULLETS.

Gdi, I should go work as a designer in BDO

I would definitely fit perfectly there, cause literally as I was reading this comment right before this paragraph I thought to myself "what if you needed a specialized weapon for hunting and huntable mobs didn't take dmg otherwise"

juniorwizzard

Depending on the target creature, each should have it's own requirements, hunting could be broken down into 3 main categories; tracking, baiting, or trapping. Difficulty, or the amount of time it takes, should be directly proportionate to the rarity or scarcity, if over hunted.

I am tempted to recommend shot placement as a prerequisite to the available materials allowed in processing the kill, eg, head shots will give no trophy, gut shot will spoil the meat. That however could over complicate things to an entirely new level.

I would like to recommend that field dressing be automatically successful and a non-issue once out of the tutorial phase. Processing the animal should be left to the professionals. A butchers skill determines the value of the cuts, and a leatherworker's skill will turn hides into useable leathers. That means transporting the carcass to the appropriate place so it can be processesed, with an expiration time for the best quality products. This will add a measure of importance to hurry up, and leave something for criminals to loot.

The actual hunting, baiting, or trapping should be tied to the indivigual, and not lootable by others. If you tracked a creature for the last 10 minutes, it shouldnt be killable by some random quester headed back to town. Same with your traps being not lootable to random players. If you are sitting in a hide waiting for your bait to work, your target should be only visible to you. Your traps should only be visible to you. This will accomplish several things; the countryside wont be over populated with mobs being hunted, since it is an indivigual skill check. Everywhere you look wont contain traps, since only the hunter can see their own traps, etc.

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