Combat still needs a "wow factor"

Nothing really stands out *yet*

I would argue with myself and say that the ranger showcase, with the air vault was nifty, however, in the group setting, it was happening, but not really noticed. It's great as a move for that player, if you're watching their screen as a POV, but I think combat animations and spell/ability graphics have been tuned down to maybe avoid spell clutter on the screen? Maybe not as grandiose as they should be. Think I'm having an issue mostly with the melee ranger and the cleric atm.

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Songcaller

I don't want wow combat.

DarkTides

Neurath wrote: »

I don't want wow combat.

Just in case you actually think wow factor equates to asking for world of warcraft combat......

wow fac·tor
nounINFORMAL
a quality or feature that is extremely impressive.
"its funky, futuristic looks would add a definite wow factor to any kitchen"

Solvryn

DarkTides wrote: »

Nothing really stands out *yet*

I would argue with myself and say that the ranger showcase, with the air vault was nifty, however, in the group setting, it was happening, but not really noticed. It's great as a move for that player, if you're watching their screen as a POV, but I think combat animations and spell/ability graphics have been tuned down to maybe avoid spell clutter on the screen? Maybe not as grandiose as they should be. Think I'm having an issue mostly with the melee ranger and the cleric atm.

I’d prefer all the art flow, the ranger flip and the big hammer are over the top.

I’d prefer impact on the ground with like wind and leaves and a bit more realism and art style that matches the environment.

Songcaller

I don't want wow combat.

DarkTides wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I don't want wow combat.

Just in case you actually think wow factor equates to asking for world of warcraft combat......

wow fac·tor
nounINFORMAL
a quality or feature that is extremely impressive.
"its funky, futuristic looks would add a definite wow factor to any kitchen"

Yeah I know. I was pulling your leg lol.

DarkTides

Solvryn wrote: »

DarkTides wrote: »

Nothing really stands out *yet*

I would argue with myself and say that the ranger showcase, with the air vault was nifty, however, in the group setting, it was happening, but not really noticed. It's great as a move for that player, if you're watching their screen as a POV, but I think combat animations and spell/ability graphics have been tuned down to maybe avoid spell clutter on the screen? Maybe not as grandiose as they should be. Think I'm having an issue mostly with the melee ranger and the cleric atm.

I’d prefer all the art flow, the ranger flip and the big hammer are over the top.

I’d prefer impact on the ground with like wind and leaves and a bit more realism and art style that matches the environment.

Read elsewhere, someone mentioning the AE hammer ability doesnt suit the weapon type, perhaps they also said it doesn't suit the class. It seems like more of a paladin or cleric ability.

Neurath wrote: »

I don't want wow combat.

DarkTides wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I don't want wow combat.

Just in case you actually think wow factor equates to asking for world of warcraft combat......

wow fac·tor
nounINFORMAL
a quality or feature that is extremely impressive.
"its funky, futuristic looks would add a definite wow factor to any kitchen"

Yeah I know. I was pulling your leg lol.

Never know around here

Chicago

@DarkTides dont forget mate its still in development but i see your points, i think once its polished alot of your concerns will go away

DarkTides

Akaime wrote: »

@DarkTides dont forget mate its still in development but i see your points, i think once its polished alot of your concerns will go away

Just providing feedback. Not everyone gets a trophy.

akabear

wow factor whilst important is quite subjective

First time I was playing New World and a musket went off in close proximity, I was "Wowed"..then when a tree was dropped!

Simple things sometimes make big impacts!

Strevi

akabear wrote: »

wow factor whilst important is quite subjective

First time I was playing New World and a musket went off in close proximity, I was "Wowed"..then when a tree was dropped!

Simple things sometimes make big impacts!

That kind of impact will not possible with AoC because all interested people will see these things during Alpha 2, maybe in a less polished form first.

Letterz

So the argument is that there is not enough particle effects on abilities? when watching from a third person perspective?

ClintHardwood

Letterz wrote: »

So the argument is that there is not enough particle effects on abilities? when watching from a third person perspective?

The argument is that the combat looks bland and unfun, which is the opposite of what a game developer wants. It doesn't have fluidity, it doesn't seem to have much of a skill ceiling, and it looks... noninteractive? I'll withhold judgement until I see more, but as it stands, I'm not very impressed. You can have fancy weather systems and all the cool mounts you want, but they mean nothing if the gameplay is dull.

Liniker

when I read that combat needs a "wow factor" I think of shitty unbalanced combat with constant nerfs, buffs and changes that fuck with classes

I hope we don't get that kind of wow factor in AoC... lol

Lust69

Ive posted this in my own thread months ago but thought my opinion would be relevant here so here goes:

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/File:A1T-Skills_06-30-21.jpg

Let’s take the examples of the tank abilities. There isn’t anything new it’s the same old skills we have seen many times in other games. Nothing new and exciting. Let’s take Javalin for example this pull your enemies towards you skill has been done so many times in games with a tank type class and we all remember it from mortal combat. The other skills are skills we’ve seen before.

My second criticism is the skills don’t look flashy enough and aren’t big enough visually.

Take your mind back to the ranger reveal the jump over and shoot three arrows downward skill is a nice skill to have but it lacks depth and the visual simulation you would want from a skill you’re going to enjoy using again and again. It’s just seems very dull.

I prefer the basic skills in BDO I’m not saying this game should copy BDO but I’d like it to be on par visually and make me think wow that looks amazing.

https://youtu.be/7kzjuuos8vA

I know things aren’t final and that’s one reason I made this thread to give feedback for future development. Maybe we can come up with some good ideas for the team like new and interesting skills that I can’t wait to play with.

Uboon

I agree with the OP in that the combat does not seem to have anything new.

The totality of AoC with all features implemented and working together is novel, and exciting, and of epic scale. Yes all the bits and pieces have been mostly done before, but bringing them all together in one world is the 'wow' factor for me.

Having said that, the combat is such a larger part of the game, it needs its own amazing something. Harvesting has got bouncing trees and surveying, but what has combat got? The hybrid system aint new (ref GW2) so I am still waiting for something to make the combat novel and exciting, even if only in some small way.

Veeshan

ClintHardwood wrote: »

Letterz wrote: »

So the argument is that there is not enough particle effects on abilities? when watching from a third person perspective?

The argument is that the combat looks bland and unfun, which is the opposite of what a game developer wants. It doesn't have fluidity, it doesn't seem to have much of a skill ceiling, and it looks... noninteractive? I'll withhold judgement until I see more, but as it stands, I'm not very impressed. You can have fancy weather systems and all the cool mounts you want, but they mean nothing if the gameplay is dull.

the problem is how combat looks is usualy alot different than how it feels in game so it rather hard to comment on combat until one gets in the game and gets there hands on it first hand.
Take BDO for example it looks flashing and cool but when u get your hands on it, you get the feeling of a spammy mess more than anything.

Although some people like the over the top unclear mess but i would prefer more easy to see what going on kinda thing wow kinda did this well (atleast classic wise) the define skills were rather easy to see whats going on and you could see what people wouild probaly do next so stratergy wise you could play around the enemy where when it over the top flashiness it hard to see whats going on so it feels kinda bad.

Solvryn

Liniker wrote: »

when I read that combat needs a "wow factor" I think of shitty unbalanced combat with constant nerfs, buffs and changes that fuck with classes

I hope we don't get that kind of wow factor in AoC... lol

I'm luling so hard cuz of this.

Solvryn

Lust69 wrote: »

Ive posted this in my own thread months ago but thought my opinion would be relevant here so here goes:

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/File:A1T-Skills_06-30-21.jpg

Let’s take the examples of the tank abilities. There isn’t anything new it’s the same old skills we have seen many times in other games. Nothing new and exciting. Let’s take Javalin for example this pull your enemies towards you skill has been done so many times in games with a tank type class and we all remember it from mortal combat. The other skills are skills we’ve seen before.

My second criticism is the skills don’t look flashy enough and aren’t big enough visually.

Take your mind back to the ranger reveal the jump over and shoot three arrows downward skill is a nice skill to have but it lacks depth and the visual simulation you would want from a skill you’re going to enjoy using again and again. It’s just seems very dull.

I prefer the basic skills in BDO I’m not saying this game should copy BDO but I’d like it to be on par visually and make me think wow that looks amazing.

https://youtu.be/7kzjuuos8vA

I know things aren’t final and that’s one reason I made this thread to give feedback for future development. Maybe we can come up with some good ideas for the team like new and interesting skills that I can’t wait to play with.

I actually think BDOs combat is gaudy and looks terrible.

Gui10

It's hard to be that innovative yet because of all the games that have existed before.

The feel of combat will determine everything. They need to add sounds and player movements for when weapon or shields hits/is hit by foes.

I'm not sure how to create a wow factor. I dont knoe a single game where combat was still "wow" after 1000 hours. I prefer a game where matches feel somewhat balanced and where teamwork is important. That will be what I look for.

ClintHardwood

Gui10 wrote: »

It's hard to be that innovative yet because of all the games that have existed before.

The feel of combat will determine everything. They need to add sounds and player movements for when weapon or shields hits/is hit by foes.

I'm not sure how to create a wow factor. I dont knoe a single game where combat was still "wow" after 1000 hours. I prefer a game where matches feel somewhat balanced and where teamwork is important. That will be what I look for.

Lost Ark's combat was amazing for me until I quit 600 hours in, and so was Tera's and New World's. I quit those games because the other systems were horrible (endless daily chores, lacking endgames, and predatory monetization), but the combat I enjoyed all the way.

Ace1234

Only looking to specifically mmos for inpsiration is extremely myopic, when plenty of inspiration could be taken from other types of games. There are plenty of other genres that specialize in common types of game systems, of which would benefit even further when introduced into an mmo game environment.

This is an example of a combat system that has a "wow factor" that has you looking forward to fighting and farming mobs. Its hard to really get the feel for it without experiencing it for yourself:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UYRyEqJvv-Q&t=2s

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