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Combat still needs a "wow factor"

Nothing really stands out *yet*

I would argue with myself and say that the ranger showcase, with the air vault was nifty, however, in the group setting, it was happening, but not really noticed. It's great as a move for that player, if you're watching their screen as a POV, but I think combat animations and spell/ability graphics have been tuned down to maybe avoid spell clutter on the screen? Maybe not as grandiose as they should be. Think I'm having an issue mostly with the melee ranger and the cleric atm.
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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't want wow combat.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    I don't want wow combat.

    Just in case you actually think wow factor equates to asking for world of warcraft combat......

    wow fac·tor
    nounINFORMAL
    a quality or feature that is extremely impressive.
    "its funky, futuristic looks would add a definite wow factor to any kitchen"
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    DarkTides wrote: »
    Nothing really stands out *yet*

    I would argue with myself and say that the ranger showcase, with the air vault was nifty, however, in the group setting, it was happening, but not really noticed. It's great as a move for that player, if you're watching their screen as a POV, but I think combat animations and spell/ability graphics have been tuned down to maybe avoid spell clutter on the screen? Maybe not as grandiose as they should be. Think I'm having an issue mostly with the melee ranger and the cleric atm.

    I’d prefer all the art flow, the ranger flip and the big hammer are over the top.

    I’d prefer impact on the ground with like wind and leaves and a bit more realism and art style that matches the environment.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't want wow combat.
    DarkTides wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't want wow combat.

    Just in case you actually think wow factor equates to asking for world of warcraft combat......

    wow fac·tor
    nounINFORMAL
    a quality or feature that is extremely impressive.
    "its funky, futuristic looks would add a definite wow factor to any kitchen"

    Yeah I know. I was pulling your leg lol.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Solvryn wrote: »
    DarkTides wrote: »
    Nothing really stands out *yet*

    I would argue with myself and say that the ranger showcase, with the air vault was nifty, however, in the group setting, it was happening, but not really noticed. It's great as a move for that player, if you're watching their screen as a POV, but I think combat animations and spell/ability graphics have been tuned down to maybe avoid spell clutter on the screen? Maybe not as grandiose as they should be. Think I'm having an issue mostly with the melee ranger and the cleric atm.

    I’d prefer all the art flow, the ranger flip and the big hammer are over the top.

    I’d prefer impact on the ground with like wind and leaves and a bit more realism and art style that matches the environment.

    Read elsewhere, someone mentioning the AE hammer ability doesnt suit the weapon type, perhaps they also said it doesn't suit the class. It seems like more of a paladin or cleric ability.
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't want wow combat.
    DarkTides wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't want wow combat.

    Just in case you actually think wow factor equates to asking for world of warcraft combat......

    wow fac·tor
    nounINFORMAL
    a quality or feature that is extremely impressive.
    "its funky, futuristic looks would add a definite wow factor to any kitchen"

    Yeah I know. I was pulling your leg lol.

    Never know around here ;)
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @DarkTides dont forget mate its still in development but i see your points, i think once its polished alot of your concerns will go away
  • Akaime wrote: »
    @DarkTides dont forget mate its still in development but i see your points, i think once its polished alot of your concerns will go away

    Just providing feedback. Not everyone gets a trophy.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    wow factor whilst important is quite subjective

    First time I was playing New World and a musket went off in close proximity, I was "Wowed"..then when a tree was dropped!

    Simple things sometimes make big impacts!

  • akabear wrote: »
    wow factor whilst important is quite subjective

    First time I was playing New World and a musket went off in close proximity, I was "Wowed"..then when a tree was dropped!

    Simple things sometimes make big impacts!

    That kind of impact will not possible with AoC because all interested people will see these things during Alpha 2, maybe in a less polished form first.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • LetterzLetterz Member, Alpha Two
    So the argument is that there is not enough particle effects on abilities? when watching from a third person perspective?


  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2022
    Letterz wrote: »
    So the argument is that there is not enough particle effects on abilities? when watching from a third person perspective?

    The argument is that the combat looks bland and unfun, which is the opposite of what a game developer wants. It doesn't have fluidity, it doesn't seem to have much of a skill ceiling, and it looks... noninteractive? I'll withhold judgement until I see more, but as it stands, I'm not very impressed. You can have fancy weather systems and all the cool mounts you want, but they mean nothing if the gameplay is dull.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    when I read that combat needs a "wow factor" I think of shitty unbalanced combat with constant nerfs, buffs and changes that fuck with classes

    I hope we don't get that kind of wow factor in AoC... lol
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  • Ive posted this in my own thread months ago but thought my opinion would be relevant here so here goes:

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/File:A1T-Skills_06-30-21.jpg

    Let’s take the examples of the tank abilities. There isn’t anything new it’s the same old skills we have seen many times in other games. Nothing new and exciting. Let’s take Javalin for example this pull your enemies towards you skill has been done so many times in games with a tank type class and we all remember it from mortal combat. The other skills are skills we’ve seen before.

    My second criticism is the skills don’t look flashy enough and aren’t big enough visually.

    Take your mind back to the ranger reveal the jump over and shoot three arrows downward skill is a nice skill to have but it lacks depth and the visual simulation you would want from a skill you’re going to enjoy using again and again. It’s just seems very dull.

    I prefer the basic skills in BDO I’m not saying this game should copy BDO but I’d like it to be on par visually and make me think wow that looks amazing.

    https://youtu.be/7kzjuuos8vA

    I know things aren’t final and that’s one reason I made this thread to give feedback for future development. Maybe we can come up with some good ideas for the team like new and interesting skills that I can’t wait to play with.

  • UboonUboon Member, Alpha Two
    I agree with the OP in that the combat does not seem to have anything new.

    The totality of AoC with all features implemented and working together is novel, and exciting, and of epic scale. Yes all the bits and pieces have been mostly done before, but bringing them all together in one world is the 'wow' factor for me.

    Having said that, the combat is such a larger part of the game, it needs its own amazing something. Harvesting has got bouncing trees and surveying, but what has combat got? The hybrid system aint new (ref GW2) so I am still waiting for something to make the combat novel and exciting, even if only in some small way.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Letterz wrote: »
    So the argument is that there is not enough particle effects on abilities? when watching from a third person perspective?

    The argument is that the combat looks bland and unfun, which is the opposite of what a game developer wants. It doesn't have fluidity, it doesn't seem to have much of a skill ceiling, and it looks... noninteractive? I'll withhold judgement until I see more, but as it stands, I'm not very impressed. You can have fancy weather systems and all the cool mounts you want, but they mean nothing if the gameplay is dull.

    the problem is how combat looks is usualy alot different than how it feels in game so it rather hard to comment on combat until one gets in the game and gets there hands on it first hand.
    Take BDO for example it looks flashing and cool but when u get your hands on it, you get the feeling of a spammy mess more than anything.

    Although some people like the over the top unclear mess but i would prefer more easy to see what going on kinda thing wow kinda did this well (atleast classic wise) the define skills were rather easy to see whats going on and you could see what people wouild probaly do next so stratergy wise you could play around the enemy where when it over the top flashiness it hard to see whats going on so it feels kinda bad.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    when I read that combat needs a "wow factor" I think of shitty unbalanced combat with constant nerfs, buffs and changes that fuck with classes

    I hope we don't get that kind of wow factor in AoC... lol

    I'm luling so hard cuz of this.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lust69 wrote: »
    Ive posted this in my own thread months ago but thought my opinion would be relevant here so here goes:

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/File:A1T-Skills_06-30-21.jpg

    Let’s take the examples of the tank abilities. There isn’t anything new it’s the same old skills we have seen many times in other games. Nothing new and exciting. Let’s take Javalin for example this pull your enemies towards you skill has been done so many times in games with a tank type class and we all remember it from mortal combat. The other skills are skills we’ve seen before.

    My second criticism is the skills don’t look flashy enough and aren’t big enough visually.

    Take your mind back to the ranger reveal the jump over and shoot three arrows downward skill is a nice skill to have but it lacks depth and the visual simulation you would want from a skill you’re going to enjoy using again and again. It’s just seems very dull.

    I prefer the basic skills in BDO I’m not saying this game should copy BDO but I’d like it to be on par visually and make me think wow that looks amazing.

    https://youtu.be/7kzjuuos8vA

    I know things aren’t final and that’s one reason I made this thread to give feedback for future development. Maybe we can come up with some good ideas for the team like new and interesting skills that I can’t wait to play with.

    I actually think BDOs combat is gaudy and looks terrible.
  • Gui10Gui10 Member
    edited December 2022
    It's hard to be that innovative yet because of all the games that have existed before.

    The feel of combat will determine everything. They need to add sounds and player movements for when weapon or shields hits/is hit by foes.

    I'm not sure how to create a wow factor. I dont knoe a single game where combat was still "wow" after 1000 hours. I prefer a game where matches feel somewhat balanced and where teamwork is important. That will be what I look for.
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2022
    Gui10 wrote: »
    It's hard to be that innovative yet because of all the games that have existed before.

    The feel of combat will determine everything. They need to add sounds and player movements for when weapon or shields hits/is hit by foes.

    I'm not sure how to create a wow factor. I dont knoe a single game where combat was still "wow" after 1000 hours. I prefer a game where matches feel somewhat balanced and where teamwork is important. That will be what I look for.

    Lost Ark's combat was amazing for me until I quit 600 hours in, and so was Tera's and New World's. I quit those games because the other systems were horrible (endless daily chores, lacking endgames, and predatory monetization), but the combat I enjoyed all the way.
  • Only looking to specifically mmos for inpsiration is extremely myopic, when plenty of inspiration could be taken from other types of games. There are plenty of other genres that specialize in common types of game systems, of which would benefit even further when introduced into an mmo game environment.

    This is an example of a combat system that has a "wow factor" that has you looking forward to fighting and farming mobs. Its hard to really get the feel for it without experiencing it for yourself:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UYRyEqJvv-Q&t=2s
  • Archage 2 teaser trailer had a nice look to it, however, it was really just a bunch of dodging with great animations/graphics. Regular attacks, nothing special... MMO games need a serious overhaul for attack/defense animations. The most impressive portion of the Archage 2 trailer was the offensive block with the shield, interrupting an attack and stunning the opponent, followed by a series of particular slashing animations that seem to appropriately interact with the model of the opponent....although that is probably what always happens when a mob is low health and gets killed...goes into some finishing move sequence... cant really tell when you cant see the abilities...but that at least looked nice.
  • Lust69Lust69 Member
    edited December 2022
    Ace1234 wrote: »
    Only looking to specifically mmos for inpsiration is extremely myopic, when plenty of inspiration could be taken from other types of games. There are plenty of other genres that specialize in common types of game systems, of which would benefit even further when introduced into an mmo game environment.

    This is an example of a combat system that has a "wow factor" that has you looking forward to fighting and farming mobs. Its hard to really get the feel for it without experiencing it for yourself:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UYRyEqJvv-Q&t=2s

    I like the thought process behind this I hope we have the same depth to combat this has 👍
  • @Lust69

    Thanks! Not sure how this game went under the radar with how loved it is by its players- I really hope its looked too for inspiration by other games in the future.

    If you haven't played the game, I highly recommend it. Most fun combat i've played, but also the most fun i've had in a lot of other ways as well.
  • Anyways, I give up on giving feedback on combat.
  • Personally I just want them to focus on getting some solid combat basics for all the classes first.

    With 500+ players on my screen fighting, I don't need or want bling or fancyness, I want super solid movement and responsiveness in combat, with no desync. Keep the effects to a minimum so I can see the other players through all the ability spam, but still be aware of the abilities coming my way.

    If they can pull that off, I'll be wow'ed.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Anyone that is talking crap about the visual movement and animations of the skills that add a flashy and very unique feel are only joking to themselves. I want to compare animations of all different mmorpgs side by side and make people realize.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWn5uNBFIRg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWI5uoQ9ge0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApIgYoZ2v58

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsEg1Dg9ndQ

    I don't care about any effects in any games, I'm talking about the feeling of the animations. If you think those animations are better than BDO feel free to explain in detail, why those animations are better.

    Wanting basic looking attacks does not mean or make it look better, it makes it look dull.
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWn5uNBFIRg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWI5uoQ9ge0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApIgYoZ2v58

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsEg1Dg9ndQ

    I don't care about any effects in any games, I'm talking about the feeling of the animations. If you think those animations are better than BDO feel free to explain in detail, why those animations are better.

    Wanting basic looking attacks does not mean or make it look better, it makes it look dull.

    Bdo attack animations look the best imo I think for AoC somewhere in between where they are now in AoC and Bdo would be about right. AoC is dull at the moment but Bdo online is a little to flashy and over the top.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2022
    Can agree with that, we still need to see more on AoC. Id say some of those rangers skills were pretty good though in being flashy enough like the jump one.

    My only issue is when people want extreme basic attacks and then I'm thinking Patheon in the back of my head.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jhoren wrote: »
    Personally I just want them to focus on getting some solid combat basics for all the classes first.

    With 500+ players on my screen fighting, I don't need or want bling or fancyness, I want super solid movement and responsiveness in combat, with no desync. Keep the effects to a minimum so I can see the other players through all the ability spam, but still be aware of the abilities coming my way.

    If they can pull that off, I'll be wow'ed.

    I can agree to this fluidity in motion and have the effects of weight and force represented through respective environments.

    I don’t think I’ve seen combat look completely fantastic in any game in my 20+ years of mmo gaming.
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