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CORRUPTION/OUTDOOR SYSTEM/PVP

CORRAPT/OUTDOOR SYSTEM
Hello friends!
I congratulate everyone on the upcoming New Year.
I want to wish that it would be productive for each of you.
And for our new favorite game, which should move the MMO RGP games to a new level of development! :)

I have always been a pvp player.
Arenas, battle grounds and world pvp.
I especially like outdoor in games.
And what I was able to find out about the outdoors here looks a little scary.
First of all, the corruption system worries me.
I know the Creative Director calls it a risk.
But it looks like a punishment.

There are also debuffs that are hung on the player, because of which you can lose your equipment!
I can understand the loss of my resources, but equipment...
I think it's overkill.

If the devs don't like outdoor (I kill whoever I want) so much and want to turn the game into a place for noble maidens, good fairies and noble knights who only fight those who are ready to fight, then why give the opportunity to gank at all?

It's easier to just add something like war mode.
And then no one will be able to touch pve players, because the punishments for killing them outweigh the pros.

What do you all think of this?
First of all, I appeal to fans of pvp and outdoor.
Let's strike while the "iron" is hot. :)
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Comments

  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8

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    The world is beautiful whenever you're here.
    And all the emptiness inside disappears.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Corruption is a punishment - Hence items can be dropped with excessive corruption on a toon.

    I'm not a massive fan of the open world pvp style but I've come to terms with the system across the years. At least the ocean has no flagging system (No corruption), caravans have no flagging system (No corruption) and the various war modes don't have corruption.

    We are actually a minority within a minority (those of us who love open world pvp). Much of the time people prefer pvp with a main objective rather than the pvp for pvp situation. I feel the devs want to cater to the main pvp audience of objective pvp rather than the minority world pvpers which we are.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Say it all with me, forum!

    This. Game. Is. Not. For. You.
    :)
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Say it all with me, forum!

    This. Game. Is. Not. For. You.
    :)

    Who are you to decide what kind of people this game is for or not?
    I am a player just like you. :)
    And I have the right to express what I think is right or wrong in it.

    And in my opinion, the corruption system is a big minus for all world pvp players.
    Or rather, some of its aspects.
    I don't mind bounty hunting, I think it's a cool feature and makes the gameplay more exciting.

    As well as an increased chance of resource loss.
    But to make a player not capable of pvp and take equipment from him, I think that this is already too much.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Who are you to decide what kind of people this game is for or not?
    I am a player just like you. :)
    And I have the right to express what I think is right or wrong in it.

    And in my opinion, the corruption system is a big minus for all world pvp players.
    Or rather, some of its aspects.
    I don't mind bounty hunting, I think it's a cool feature and makes the gameplay more exciting.

    As well as an increased chance of resource loss.
    But to make a player not capable of pvp and take equipment from him, I think that this is already too much.
    Oh, you're completely free to express your opinion on the game's systems. But Intrepid have said that being corrupted is not a viable gameplay style and the system, while allowing PKing here and there, exists to prevent genocidal tendencies that a lot of players like you (and me btw) have.

    So if you
    Jinro wrote: »
    want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
    w/o consequences, then the game is not for you, because the game's core design is risk vs reward. And with higher rewards for killing a green player, the risk must also be higher.

    There's gonna be a ton of ways to kill people w/o getting corruption, so you're free to use those, but if you just want to kill everyone you see then you'll be punished. And if you don't like that kind of design, then the game is not for you :)
  • StreviStrevi Member
    edited December 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    Say it all with me, forum!

    This. Game. Is. Not. For. You.
    :)

    only if you have keys to give away :)
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    People that spent $10k don't really even have ballpark estimates either, so why should someone that spent $400 get one?
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  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    As well as an increased chance of resource loss.
    But to make a player not capable of pvp and take equipment from him, I think that this is already too much.

    Could you clarify for us, what is the penalty/discouraging point for a player who is carrying no resources, but has good gear already, and only wants to PvP anyway?
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    Who are you to decide what kind of people this game is for or not?
    I am a player just like you. :)
    And I have the right to express what I think is right or wrong in it.

    And in my opinion, the corruption system is a big minus for all world pvp players.
    Or rather, some of its aspects.
    I don't mind bounty hunting, I think it's a cool feature and makes the gameplay more exciting.

    As well as an increased chance of resource loss.
    But to make a player not capable of pvp and take equipment from him, I think that this is already too much.
    Oh, you're completely free to express your opinion on the game's systems. But Intrepid have said that being corrupted is not a viable gameplay style and the system, while allowing PKing here and there, exists to prevent genocidal tendencies that a lot of players like you (and me btw) have.

    So if you
    Jinro wrote: »
    want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
    w/o consequences, then the game is not for you, because the game's core design is risk vs reward. And with higher rewards for killing a green player, the risk must also be higher.

    There's gonna be a ton of ways to kill people w/o getting corruption, so you're free to use those, but if you just want to kill everyone you see then you'll be punished. And if you don't like that kind of design, then the game is not for you :)

    See.|
    You do not understand me correctly or do not want to understand.
    I think the risk is a huge plus.
    This is great!
    Killing players with impunity is cool but can get boring quickly.
    But the reward for your head and the risk of losing resources, this makes the game of the scribe so exciting and interesting.
    Especially if I undertake to win back some kind of monster.

    But you manipulate my words and substitute concepts.
    I did not say that it is necessary to abolish the system of corruption.
    I spoke out against when the developers at a certain point just start hitting your hands if you enjoy world pvp content.

    Since the reduction in the effectiveness of abilities and equipment, as well as the risk of losing your equipment after death, this does not make open world pvp better or more exciting.
    This is just an idiotic restriction that forces players to only fight those who want to.
    Azherae wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    As well as an increased chance of resource loss.
    But to make a player not capable of pvp and take equipment from him, I think that this is already too much.

    Could you clarify for us, what is the penalty/discouraging point for a player who is carrying no resources, but has good gear already, and only wants to PvP anyway?

    Loss of experience.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    I spoke out against when the developers at a certain point just start hitting your hands if you enjoy world pvp content.

    Since the reduction in the effectiveness of abilities and equipment, as well as the risk of losing your equipment after death, this does not make open world pvp better or more exciting.
    This is just an idiotic restriction that forces players to only fight those who want to.
    Again though, they prevent you from killing people who are literally not fighting back. No one is stopping you from participating in several different proper pvp encounters. Intrepid just wants to stop those who think that they should be able to kill whoever they want w/o consequences.

    If you like and understand the risk part of the design, I don't understand why you're against harsher punishments for those who kill passive players who don't want to fight back.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2022
    Jinro wrote: »
    Loss of experience.

    Would you accept that killing a non-combatant player caused you to instantly lose experience, then?

    You win the fight, but you lose exp anyway, as the form of discouragement for doing it.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    Intrepid just wants to stop those who think that they should be able to kill whoever they want w/o consequences.

    If you like and understand the risk part of the design, I don't understand why you're against harsher punishments for those who kill passive players who don't want to fight back.

    I like having consequences.

    I am against it when a developer starts to simply restrict my freedom, forbidding me to fight with players (reducing the effectiveness of equipment and abilities) and takes my equipment.
    Why the heck then make it possible to attack the green players at all?
    Is the developer trying to troll me?

    You say that attacking those who are not ready for this is bad.
    What about the Assassin class?
    The whole point of playing as an assassin is precisely to kill those who do not expect this and are not ready to fight back.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Corruption is a currency, you need to think about how you're going to spend it.

    Are you going to kill the gatherers of an enemy guild before they start a caravan? Or are you going to wait until a caravan starts and assail it with a team? This should be a part of an actual plan, not random act.

    Corruption has many components to consider, but what it does is prevents level 50s from killing level 1s because you felt like it.

    The spending of corruption will be best maximized by strategically and tactically sound minds and wasted on those out there being random and chaotic.

    I can agree it's not the prettiest system on paper, but it'll get flushed out when it's time to test and flush it out to find the sweet spot, the part where the penalties do not null bounty hunting and pieces of the military node.





  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    I am against it when a developer starts to simply restrict my freedom, forbidding me to fight with players (reducing the effectiveness of equipment and abilities) and takes my equipment.
    Why the heck then make it possible to attack the green players at all?
    Is the developer trying to troll me?
    Like I said several times, the developer is limiting the amount of pacifist people you can kill. The system is there to literally let you kill people when you want. But it doesn't let you just kill however many people you want.

    The effectiveness of your stats and equipment would go down if you die too, not just due to corruption. And they will only go down due to corruption if you gain a shitton of it, so, yet again, the system is trying to prevent you from genociding innocence.
    Jinro wrote: »
    You say that attacking those who are not ready for this is bad.
    What about the Assassin class?
    The whole point of playing as an assassin is precisely to kill those who do not expect this and are not ready to fight back.
    Yet again, as I said several times, there's several ways to participate in proper pvp where both sides agree to it: guild wars, node wars, castle/node sieges, enemy of the state mechanic, caravans, node ruins, open seas, other potential additions (just like seas and ruins were added recently).

    All of those mechanics let you utilize your class in whichever way you want, all while having nothing to do with the corruption system and the killing of non-pvp people.
  • Solvryn wrote: »
    Corruption is a currency, you need to think about how you're going to spend it.

    Are you going to kill the gatherers of an enemy guild before they start a caravan? Or are you going to wait until a caravan starts and assail it with a team? This should be a part of an actual plan, not random act.

    Corruption has many components to consider, but what it does is prevents level 50s from killing level 1s because you felt like it.

    The spending of corruption will be best maximized by strategically and tactically sound minds and wasted on those out there being random and chaotic.

    I can agree it's not the prettiest system on paper, but it'll get flushed out when it's time to test and flush it out to find the sweet spot, the part where the penalties do not null bounty hunting and pieces of the military node.





    It really sounds interesting.
    But of course the system needs to be polished and changed.
    I hope that they will correct it and find the very golden mean that you mentioned.
    Planning to rob caravans and kill resource gatherers to sabotage an enemy node or guild is very cool.

    The whole problem is that they are trying to tie our hands.
    I personally don't think it's bad to allow players to kill as much as they want.
    What's wrong with that?
    Considering that players will have consequences because of this in the form of loss of resources and even their equipment, which I consider too much.

    If you play for example a bloodthirsty monster that kills people in a certain forest.
    Then a reward is given for your head.
    And you'll have to hide and defend yourself from bounty hunters.
    But at the same time, you can still kill as many as you like until they stop you.
    Isn't it exciting?
    I will not be able to arrange genocide alone, because they will immediately kill me.
    It would be interesting to me if I knew that a dangerous creature was found in some kind of forest.
    And then, while picking mushrooms, you suddenly hear a strong howl somewhere not far away. :#
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I spent 6 months killing low levels with a level 24 alongside my friend. We killed the server population because we stopped players from functioning in a levelling location. We had tracking and rangers - there was no escape.

    There was no punishment system and no karma system either. The new players quit or rage quit. I'd rather not have the same option in Ashes.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Planning to rob caravans and kill resource gatherers to sabotage an enemy node or guild is very cool.

    The whole problem is that they are trying to tie our hands.
    They aren't though. "Enemy" means that you're at war with them, which means that you don't get corruption for killing them.
    Jinro wrote: »
    I personally don't think it's bad to allow players to kill as much as they want.
    What's wrong with that?
    Considering that players will have consequences because of this in the form of loss of resources and even their equipment, which I consider too much.
    And Intrepid doesn't want you killing anyone you want as much as you want. Which is why I said that the game is not for you, just as it is not for people who don't want to ever be killed in the game.
    Jinro wrote: »
    If you play for example a bloodthirsty monster that kills people in a certain forest.
    Then a reward is given for your head.
    And you'll have to hide and defend yourself from bounty hunters.
    But at the same time, you can still kill as many as you like until they stop you.
    Isn't it exciting?
    I will not be able to arrange genocide alone, because they will immediately kill me.
    It would be interesting to me if I knew that a dangerous creature was found in some kind of forest.
    And then, while picking mushrooms, you suddenly hear a strong howl somewhere not far away. :#
    This is literally the case in the current system. You can PK people and BHs will go hunt you down. Except the game doesn't allow you to do this for days on end, because corruption is not meant to be a gameplay style.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Corruption is a currency, you need to think about how you're going to spend it.

    Are you going to kill the gatherers of an enemy guild before they start a caravan? Or are you going to wait until a caravan starts and assail it with a team? This should be a part of an actual plan, not random act.

    Corruption has many components to consider, but what it does is prevents level 50s from killing level 1s because you felt like it.

    The spending of corruption will be best maximized by strategically and tactically sound minds and wasted on those out there being random and chaotic.

    I can agree it's not the prettiest system on paper, but it'll get flushed out when it's time to test and flush it out to find the sweet spot, the part where the penalties do not null bounty hunting and pieces of the military node.





    It really sounds interesting.
    But of course the system needs to be polished and changed.
    I hope that they will correct it and find the very golden mean that you mentioned.
    Planning to rob caravans and kill resource gatherers to sabotage an enemy node or guild is very cool.

    The whole problem is that they are trying to tie our hands.
    I personally don't think it's bad to allow players to kill as much as they want.
    What's wrong with that?
    Considering that players will have consequences because of this in the form of loss of resources and even their equipment, which I consider too much.

    If you play for example a bloodthirsty monster that kills people in a certain forest.
    Then a reward is given for your head.
    And you'll have to hide and defend yourself from bounty hunters.
    But at the same time, you can still kill as many as you like until they stop you.
    Isn't it exciting?
    I will not be able to arrange genocide alone, because they will immediately kill me.
    It would be interesting to me if I knew that a dangerous creature was found in some kind of forest.
    And then, while picking mushrooms, you suddenly hear a strong howl somewhere not far away. :#

    I'm from a full loot background, maybe with my response and answer I can provide you with will be more if I just tell you how I am reading it.

    You do not think it's bad to allow players to kill as much as they want, but you consider being potentially dry looted too much. That reads like griefing more than playing through the world with a purpose. If you're going to play like an old school PKer, shouldn't you have the same risk?

    Take a look at the monster coin system which you can indeed be a bloodthirsty monster.

    You want to be a mass murderer, but you're defending yourself from bounty hunters. Mass murdering flags you for the bounty hunter system, which they come and hunt you down and stop you from mass murdering. Which may result in a loss of your stuff.

    That stuff you theoretically lost, is not just stuff; it is your time. Much like the crafting material you looted from others whom may or may not be able to defend themselves. Esp if they did not defend themselves, they lost more stuff. Stuff gathered is time spent, remember that. That stuff turns into refined stuff, which turns into a final product of stuff. That's a large amount of time.

    So think about this. If you could go out and mass murder everyone and there was no corruption system, then when it comes to guilds and large groups of players, what's the point of the crafting system, the caravan system, the bounty hunter system, pretty much the whole game is contingent on the interconnectedness of these systems.

    You are looking at this as an individual, but you have to consider the ramifications of what you want on a large scale and the potential fall-out; there are many real world consequences to this.
  • Neurath wrote: »
    And Intrepid doesn't want you killing anyone you want as much as you want. Which is why I said that the game is not for you, just as it is not for people who don't want to ever be killed in the game.

    And what prevents me from fighting for the implementation of my views, along with other players?
    If you came here to say that this game is not for me, then this topic is definitely not for you buddy.
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Corruption is a currency, you need to think about how you're going to spend it.

    Are you going to kill the gatherers of an enemy guild before they start a caravan? Or are you going to wait until a caravan starts and assail it with a team? This should be a part of an actual plan, not random act.

    Corruption has many components to consider, but what it does is prevents level 50s from killing level 1s because you felt like it.

    The spending of corruption will be best maximized by strategically and tactically sound minds and wasted on those out there being random and chaotic.

    I can agree it's not the prettiest system on paper, but it'll get flushed out when it's time to test and flush it out to find the sweet spot, the part where the penalties do not null bounty hunting and pieces of the military node.

    I am against only two things.

    1) So that players can loot equipment from me.

    2) Limiting the number of murders.

    Resources, gold, and even experience from me can be looted, not to mention the decrease in the effectiveness of equipment after death for some time.
    Respawn in a random location.
    All this may well stop me.
    And it is quite a fair loss in relation to other players.
    I will lose in this case, even much more than the defenseless player whom I kill.
    So risks and responsibility is always here.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I never tell anyone except the pve perfectionists that the game is not for them.

    The main point I have to make is the fact you are one of a long line of forum posters which have started the same thread since 2017.
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  • Lose your resources, money, and game experience in the form of half a half level or maybe a whole level + respawn in a random place...
    This looks very serious and can stop any PC player!
    And if it really adds to the spice of the experience then taking away my equipment and limiting the number of kills already looks like a punishment to the developers for the gaming experience that I pay money for.
    This is overkill in my opinion.
  • And yes, I forgot about a bunch of unpleasant debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of equipment and abilities for some time after death.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yes. I agree. Hence why I decided to be a bounty hunter because it means you can have open world fights with the great masses who will not understand the corruption system after game launch lol.
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  • And you're feeding me here to prove that I will act with impunity?
    Are you guys serious rn?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I feel you know the situation and will continue to press for change. I'm not going to state you will or won't kill with impunity but you definitely aren't ill informed right now.
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    Yes. I agree. Hence why I decided to be a bounty hunter because it means you can have open world fights with the great masses who will not understand the corruption system after game launch lol.

    Unfortunately for you, I understand corruption system perfectly.
  • Neurath wrote: »
    I feel you know the situation and will continue to press for change. I'm not going to state you will or won't kill with impunity but you definitely aren't ill informed right now.

    Well, I think it would be stupid and very disrespectful to people to post my topic without understanding the situation first.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's not unfortunate at all. I'm not trying to make you lose items but I would be reminisced if I didn't clarify the position when others - including myself, have tried to remove, change or prevent corruption.

    It's not too bad. We got corruption removed from the ocean.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2022
    Jinro wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    And Intrepid doesn't want you killing anyone you want as much as you want. Which is why I said that the game is not for you, just as it is not for people who don't want to ever be killed in the game.

    And what prevents me from fighting for the implementation of my views, along with other players?
    If you came here to say that this game is not for me, then this topic is definitely not for you buddy.
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Corruption is a currency, you need to think about how you're going to spend it.

    Are you going to kill the gatherers of an enemy guild before they start a caravan? Or are you going to wait until a caravan starts and assail it with a team? This should be a part of an actual plan, not random act.

    Corruption has many components to consider, but what it does is prevents level 50s from killing level 1s because you felt like it.

    The spending of corruption will be best maximized by strategically and tactically sound minds and wasted on those out there being random and chaotic.

    I can agree it's not the prettiest system on paper, but it'll get flushed out when it's time to test and flush it out to find the sweet spot, the part where the penalties do not null bounty hunting and pieces of the military node.

    I am against only two things.

    1) So that players can loot equipment from me.

    2) Limiting the number of murders.

    Resources, gold, and even experience from me can be looted, not to mention the decrease in the effectiveness of equipment after death for some time.
    Respawn in a random location.
    All this may well stop me.
    And it is quite a fair loss in relation to other players.
    I will lose in this case, even much more than the defenseless player whom I kill.
    So risks and responsibility is always here.




    I am not against playing like a PKer and having PK like consequences, being able to play like a PKer without those consequences will lead to griefing.

    I can agree with you that maybe the stat dampening is a bit steep, but it's because I would like to see the bounty hunter system also work wonderfully.

    In which they have unfettered access to your location.

    However, if you're going to say you are against being looted and limiting the numbers of murders, what would you offer instead?

    Corruption isn't just tackling anti-griefing, it's still a part of the interconnectedness of the rest of the systems. I can say that yes, lets curb the stat dampening.

    If we remove the stat dampening, then the bounty hunter system really needs to be polished because there will be definite Bounty Hunters constantly out and about.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    And you're feeding me here to prove that I will act with impunity?
    Are you guys serious rn?

    You're one person. Servers will hold thousands.
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