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CORRUPTION/OUTDOOR SYSTEM/PVP

245

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Corrupted don't have stat dampening against Bounty Hunters. To be clear and concise.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Unfortunately for you, I understand corruption system perfectly.
    Somehow that sounds really Dunning-Krugeristic. I've seen way too many people who "knew the design perfectly", yet then failed to explain it properly on several occasions.

    But on the off chance that you do in fact understand it, if you're such a good pvper that you're ready to fight anyone, why do you even care about the corrupted death penalty? If you never die to BHs - you'll never suffer the penalties. And you'll just need to avoid the stronger green players while you grind off your corruption. Seems like an easy life for a good pvper.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Corrupted don't have stat dampening against Bounty Hunters. To be clear and concise.

    No, but I think it'll be okay for corrupted to keep gaining the corruption at a more rapid rate until they get hunted into rerolling or working it off.
  • Neurath wrote: »
    It's not unfortunate at all. I'm not trying to make you lose items but I would be reminisced if I didn't clarify the position when others - including myself, have tried to remove, change or prevent corruption.

    It's not too bad. We got corruption removed from the ocean.

    The fact is that I'm not trying to suggest removing corruption.
    Just to make it not so deadly for the players.
    Due to the loss of their equipment and the limitation of kills.

    Players must be held accountable for their actions!
    Loss of resources, game experience (which already takes a lot of time), debuffs after death - isn't that enough?
    Why do you need to go to super punishment?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I can't be certain you will lose items. The corruption system needs to go through testing. I doubt the system will end up as currently written.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Why do you need to go to super punishment?
    So that going Red is a rare enough occurrence that most pacifistic players feel safe enough to play the game for a long time. This would not only bring more money for Intrepid, but would also make the game a much better mmo, because pretty much every single mmo where you can kill anyone and everyone as much as you want becomes a 1-2k-player swamp or changes into an instanced-based game within a few updates.
  • I agree with Solvrun, that corruption needs to be refined and polished during the game.
    Otherwise, world pvp will be very lame.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    It's not unfortunate at all. I'm not trying to make you lose items but I would be reminisced if I didn't clarify the position when others - including myself, have tried to remove, change or prevent corruption.

    It's not too bad. We got corruption removed from the ocean.

    Why do you need to go to super punishment?

    If you kill 10 people and you loot from them the maximum amount of resources the game allocates, you may have a chance to loot way above the value of your current inventory.

    Why is it unreasonable to you, that you shouldn't risk your inventory for that?
  • Neurath wrote: »
    I can't be certain you will lose items. The corruption system needs to go through testing. I doubt the system will end up as currently written.

    Yes, I wholeheartedly hope so and will try to support the project as much as I can.
    In the end this game is a revolution and it needs support and feedback which will undoubtedly make it the best mmo rpg in the world! :)
  • JinroJinro Member
    edited December 2022
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    It's not unfortunate at all. I'm not trying to make you lose items but I would be reminisced if I didn't clarify the position when others - including myself, have tried to remove, change or prevent corruption.

    It's not too bad. We got corruption removed from the ocean.

    Why do you need to go to super punishment?

    If you kill 10 people and you loot from them the maximum amount of resources the game allocates, you may have a chance to loot way above the value of your current inventory.

    Why is it unreasonable to you, that you shouldn't risk your inventory for that?

    If I kill more than 10 players can I loot something very cool from them?
    Wow, I did not know about that!

    I think it's too cruel to other players.
    Losing resources and getting debuffs after i kill em, is already a lot.
    Don't you think so?
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    It's not unfortunate at all. I'm not trying to make you lose items but I would be reminisced if I didn't clarify the position when others - including myself, have tried to remove, change or prevent corruption.

    It's not too bad. We got corruption removed from the ocean.

    Why do you need to go to super punishment?

    If you kill 10 people and you loot from them the maximum amount of resources the game allocates, you may have a chance to loot way above the value of your current inventory.

    Why is it unreasonable to you, that you shouldn't risk your inventory for that?

    If I kill more than 10 players can I loot something very cool from them?
    Wow, I did not know about that!

    I think it's too cruel to other players.
    Losing resources and getting debuffs after i kill em, is already a lot.
    Don't you think so?

    If you kill 10 players the resources you loot are in greater value than what your risking. Then you have been rewarded for your efforts. Should you die, not only are you going to lose the percentage of your pillage; but you may also lose what you started with.

    Ashes was built on Risk vs Reward, so I am not seeing the problem why you shouldn't risk your gear for a potentially greater profit.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Ashes was built on Risk vs Reward, so I am not seeing the problem why you shouldn't risk your gear for a potentially greater profit.
    Especially when in the context of a PK your victim doesn't fight back, which means that you could use any kind of shitty gear to kill them. At which point even one good PK could provide you with a huge profit over what you spent on that kill. Yet another example of risk/reward. You risk losing in pvp if your target fights back and has better gear, but you stand to gain much more if they don't.
  • JinroJinro Member
    edited December 2022
    If that's how it works, then it might make sense.
    I just hope that the system of corruption will be balanced and fair in relation not only to the victims but also to the gankers.
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    If that's how it works, then it might make sense.
    I just hope that the system of corruption will be balanced and fair in relation not only to the victims but also to the gankers.

    I had to read this three or four times before I realized you had to be trolling.

    "Balanced and Fair .... to the gankers?"

    Look, Corruption is a pineapple, shoved not so nicely up your ass when you ruin the playtime and experience of someone who didn't want to PvP. There isn't going to be a "balanced and fair" to the gankers.

    Its a punishment. It is going to be harsh, and nasty, and miserable. Because that's what punishments are supposed to be. Deterrents.

    I'll sign you up for the pineapple of the hour club.

    hpsmlCJ.jpg
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • Jahlon wrote: »
    I had to read this three or four times before I realized you had to be trolling.

    "Balanced and Fair .... to the gankers?"

    Look, Corruption is a pineapple, shoved not so nicely up your ass when you ruin the playtime and experience of someone who didn't want to PvP. There isn't going to be a "balanced and fair" to the gankers.

    Players versus Pineapples.

    In all seriousness, I'm not sure that's the right read of the mechanic. My impression is that it's main purpose is to deter griefing, specifically. But it seems like when you venture out in the world of Verra you accept the fact that there's inbuilt risk, and that there will be PvP.

    I guess my point is, if simply ganking someone is considered griefing, then it wouldn't be in the game. I think Steven commented recently about what constitutes griefing, but maybe we can get him to clarify because the response wasn't black-and-white, and it seems to me like there's confusion and concern around this topic

  • JinroJinro Member
    edited December 2022

    Jahlon wrote: »
    Jinro wrote: »
    If that's how it works, then it might make sense.
    I just hope that the system of corruption will be balanced and fair in relation not only to the victims but also to the gankers.

    I had to read this three or four times before I realized you had to be trolling.

    "Balanced and Fair .... to the gankers?"

    Look, Corruption is a pineapple, shoved not so nicely up your ass when you ruin the playtime and experience of someone who didn't want to PvP. There isn't going to be a "balanced and fair" to the gankers.

    Its a punishment. It is going to be harsh, and nasty, and miserable. Because that's what punishments are supposed to be. Deterrents.

    I'll sign you up for the pineapple of the hour club.

    You think I care about your cheap jokes mate?

    And I do not agree with the system that you described to me here.
    You understood me?
    Killing players in the open world is part of the roleplaying.
    This is an RPG game.

    And next time, try to take not only one side, but try to offer a solution to the problem that would satisfy everyone.
    To do this, I will advise you to use your head after all.
    Not what you used when you wrote me the answer.
  • On this issue, there are no solution that will satisfy everyone.

    At best both sides will have to endure the compromise, and neither will like it.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Jinro wrote: »
    And next time, try to take not only one side, but try to offer a solution to the problem that would satisfy everyone.
    Funny you say that.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tal9UO0PUhw

    And while Steven's talking about the pve extremists here, the same applies to the pvp extremists too, as pointed out in the clarification of the griefing rules in one of the recent streams.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Btw, here's another explanation for why the system is the way that it is
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IUGrCOhURvU
  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There's going to be a corruption system Jinro. That's pretty baked into the cake. The only thing to debate is how harsh or lenient the corruption system should be.

    That's what your argument should be, how harsh you think the system should be. How fast should the risk and penalties scale up for corrupted players with each successive kill they commit.

    It's kind of hard to debate it until we feel it and experience it in the game in my opinion, but I guess some academic arguments could be made one way or the other.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Cant comment on corruption system till we see it in game since alot of it will come down to value given on kills.
    To little penalty on kill it a gank fest to hard on kill penalty value then we get 0 pvp at all so. Its realy finding a balance inbetween these 2 where most people are happy with it or find it acceptable.

    but till we get in game with the system we wont realy know.

    if i can kill people a few people a day that dont fight back im fine with it, 1 a day isnt enough though but to many then game gonna die from lack of players after awhile from what ive seen. So realy need a balance and these kill will vary too depending on guild/node wars and thing since they dont carry a penalty from my understanding.
    So if my guild/node can war dec a neighbouring node so there some meaningful pvp fairly consistantly then ill be happy with the system.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Let’s hope other veteran forum-goers can step in and herd cats as good as @Nikr … to avoid burnout before the game even launches.

    These throwaway threads are only going to increase as we get closer to game release.
  • Let’s hope other veteran forum-goers can step in and herd cats as good as @Nikr … to avoid burnout before the game even launches.

    These throwaway threads are only going to increase as we get closer to game release.

    But, at the same time, these threads will become easier to dismiss as the game designs are getting presented and official. At the moment there is still some wiggle room and everyone tug on the sheets to express how they want the vagueness to set.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • CoracaoCoracao Member
    edited January 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Say it all with me, forum!

    This. Game. Is. Not. For. You.
    :)

    If there is anyone for whom this game is not intended, it should be you.

    Every MMO forums has its old-timer, who is not a member of the staff, but who is always talking about nothing on everything and who also decides who is allowed to play and who is not.

    This game is for whoever will buy it ) Stop pushing future players away please.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Coracao wrote: »
    If there is anyone for whom this game is not intended, it should be you.

    Every MMO forums has its old-timer, who is not a member of the staff, but who is always talking about nothing on everything and who also decides who is allowed to play and who is not.

    This game is for whoever will buy it ) Stop pushing future players away please.
    There's a difference between a player who comes here to enjoy the game for what it is and someone who wants to change it drastically. Imo both "add way more instanced content and also remove owpvp" and "remove harsh penalties on corruption or the corruption system itself" are too big of a change to the core principles of the game.

    As Steven said in the video I posted, he has a vision for his game and that vision won't suit every player out there. And that vision has barely changed since the start of the development (though those god damn open seas definitely make my argument weaker).

    So when I see the 10th thread about "removing pvp" or "removing any punishment for PKing", my first reply is usually "this game is not for you", mainly because out of those previous 9 threads the OP rarely understands why the game is designed the way that it is. I'm glad that Jinro is seemingly in the minority of people who has grasped the design and can at least wait till later testing to see if it works out.

    But I'd rather put a big filter at the start of such threads, which would keep the true extremists away from the game while also letting through anyone who's at least willing to try and understand the game's design and then make a decision whether they agree with it or not.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Coracao wrote: »
    If there is anyone for whom this game is not intended, it should be you.

    Every MMO forums has its old-timer, who is not a member of the staff, but who is always talking about nothing on everything and who also decides who is allowed to play and who is not.

    This game is for whoever will buy it ) Stop pushing future players away please.
    There's a difference between a player who comes here to enjoy the game for what it is and someone who wants to change it drastically. Imo both "add way more instanced content and also remove owpvp" and "remove harsh penalties on corruption or the corruption system itself" are too big of a change to the core principles of the game.

    As Steven said in the video I posted, he has a vision for his game and that vision won't suit every player out there. And that vision has barely changed since the start of the development (though those god damn open seas definitely make my argument weaker).

    So when I see the 10th thread about "removing pvp" or "removing any punishment for PKing", my first reply is usually "this game is not for you", mainly because out of those previous 9 threads the OP rarely understands why the game is designed the way that it is. I'm glad that Jinro is seemingly in the minority of people who has grasped the design and can at least wait till later testing to see if it works out.

    But I'd rather put a big filter at the start of such threads, which would keep the true extremists away from the game while also letting through anyone who's at least willing to try and understand the game's design and then make a decision whether they agree with it or not.

    Whatever the reason for your reaction, everyone has the right to play AOC. If they don't like the game, they will naturally stop playing.

    If you are annoyed by a suggestion, you may not respond to it either. But I use the conditional tense here because everyone has the right to respond to any post.

    But with respect. And I find it disrespectful to say to someone "this game is not for you".
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'd laugh hard if the game flops and none of us end up playing.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • StreviStrevi Member
    edited January 2023
    Coracao wrote: »
    And I find it disrespectful to say to someone "this game is not for you".
    Well, it may be true on other forums but here it happens that the guy who pays from his pockets to make the game said that:

    You have to spend time acclimating yourself to what this game is, to what the world that you're part of is; and that's an investment- a time investment; and that plays towards our ideas of risk-versus-reward; and I've always said our game's not going to be for everybody and that's okay.[9] – Steven Sharif

    We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay.[22] – Steven Sharif


    So if you say Seven will lose customers, it seems that he values the game pillars more.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Neurath wrote: »
    I'd laugh hard if the game flops and none of us end up playing.
    This risk exist in any project. This one has higher risks as it goes against the trend of the newer MMOs and has to solve problems the other solved by giving up on the ideas embraced by AoC.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah I understand the situation. The main threat remains the 10,000 plus players with lifetime subs. If only those are left then the game will die.
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