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Potential Tool for players to use against BOTs????

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Comments

  • Razor001Razor001 Member
    edited January 2023
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor - that is what they are doing - the issue is - once many of us do report legit bots - it still going to be awhile for the GM to finally investigate and confirm before the ban. They will have hundreds of tickets to investigate.

    So it is doing something in between until the GM arrives.

    I just think it would cause more problems than solutions. What repercussions would there be for people who get all their friends and guild to report a single person because that person always beats them in pvp? I can see that your intention is good, but I still think the solution must come from the admin side.
  • AxarashiAxarashi Member, Alpha Two
    A way to help GMs with identifying who real players are - and for preventing false bot reports - is perhaps to have some kind of verification mechanic upon registration / entering the game. This mechanic could be completely optional, but for those who complete it, they could avoid the trouble of getting false reported and save GMs some time figuring out if they're a bot account or not.

    One way of doing this could be for example by having the option to verify yourself by entering your national insurance number (though I can already see many people unwilling to give their private information, and for this reason I repeat: it could be optional, just for those who want to avoid getting false reported etc).

    Another way could be through phone number verification. But then, some might argue about throw-away phone numbers which can be easily obtained. To avoid this, perhaps the "phone number way of verification" could require users to renew their verification annually / semi-annually or even quarterly.

    These are just two ways on the top of my head, I'm sure others could come up with something better. Even if it doesn't completely eradicate the problem, it could still be a great help, especially to GMs who have to deal with these reports. If you'd combine this together with some of the other ideas mentioned by others before me, I think it could definitely reduce part the bot problem and false reports.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Razor001 wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor - that is what they are doing - the issue is - once many of us do report legit bots - it still going to be awhile for the GM to finally investigate and confirm before the ban. They will have hundreds of tickets to investigate.

    So it is doing something in between until the GM arrives.

    I just think it would cause more problems than solutions. What repercussions would there be for people who get all their friends and guild to report a single person because that person always beats them in pvp? I can see that your intention is good, but I still think the solution must come from the admin side.

    did u bother to read the OP? everything been explained in terms of mass reports
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • Razor001Razor001 Member
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor001 wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor - that is what they are doing - the issue is - once many of us do report legit bots - it still going to be awhile for the GM to finally investigate and confirm before the ban. They will have hundreds of tickets to investigate.

    So it is doing something in between until the GM arrives.

    I just think it would cause more problems than solutions. What repercussions would there be for people who get all their friends and guild to report a single person because that person always beats them in pvp? I can see that your intention is good, but I still think the solution must come from the admin side.

    did u bother to read the OP? everything been explained in terms of mass reports

    I did, and who says everyone has to report within a 2 minute window? who says the people reporting are going to be in a guild, but all members of a discord? What if a party of 8 are all in a guild and come across a suspected bot?
  • Razor001Razor001 Member
    edited January 2023
    Again, admin/developer solutions are the way to go. For example, bots are often used to farm gold, if you take away the ability for third party sites to sell gold to players, you've already eliminated a large chunk of the problem before it is a problem in the first place. How about an algorithm that looks at how much a reported player farms per hour and a total to put reported players at the top of any investigation que. These are the kinds of solutions that I would be in favour of.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Bots are not our responsibility as players, that's on Intrepid to deal with by having active GMs that are not lazy

    This is still the correct answer.

    Report bots in-game, let Intrepid deal with it, and move on.

    Creating a special in-game mechanic opens the door for abuse (against good players).

    If Intrepid is able to debut a robust anti-botting feature, it won't be a problem anyway.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Razor001 wrote: »
    Again, admin/developer solutions are the way to go. For example, bots are often used to farm gold, if you take away the ability for third party sites to sell gold to players, you've already eliminated a large chunk of the problem before it is a problem in the first place. How about an algorithm that looks at how much a reported player farms per hour and a total to put reported players at the top of any investigation que. These are the kinds of solutions that I would be in favour of.

    I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But all of that takes time.

    As for the 2 minute thing and 8-10 people.. I did say IE - that number is just arbitrary - it's the concept that matter and one that the Dev can decide how many reports in a short amount of time will it potentially flag as abuse and not trigger anything.

    Cool - you got a discord of 30 random people. Are all 30 players at the Bot location to make the report? If not - then it means nothing.

    Once again - let's say all 30 people are actually there - but you all reported in a short time window - guess what - that bot won't get flag to be killed - cause it was reported too quickly.

    These are concept ideas that can be tweaked to find the proper balance for the GMs.

    But it allows us to do something in the meanwhile. Last thing we need is the bot to know it is safe for an extra hour, finish farming, selling it to get gold and make a sell.
    Even before that - just being able to sell it for whatever cheap price it decided to sell already damaged the economy. We need to prevent those sales. minimize their farm until the GM can finally deal with it and give it the mighty ban.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • Razor001Razor001 Member
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor001 wrote: »
    Again, admin/developer solutions are the way to go. For example, bots are often used to farm gold, if you take away the ability for third party sites to sell gold to players, you've already eliminated a large chunk of the problem before it is a problem in the first place. How about an algorithm that looks at how much a reported player farms per hour and a total to put reported players at the top of any investigation que. These are the kinds of solutions that I would be in favour of.

    I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But all of that takes time.

    As for the 2 minute thing and 8-10 people.. I did say IE - that number is just arbitrary - it's the concept that matter and one that the Dev can decide how many reports in a short amount of time will it potentially flag as abuse and not trigger anything.

    Cool - you got a discord of 30 random people. Are all 30 players at the Bot location to make the report? If not - then it means nothing.

    Once again - let's say all 30 people are actually there - but you all reported in a short time window - guess what - that bot won't get flag to be killed - cause it was reported too quickly.

    These are concept ideas that can be tweaked to find the proper balance for the GMs.

    But it allows us to do something in the meanwhile. Last thing we need is the bot to know it is safe for an extra hour, finish farming, selling it to get gold and make a sell.
    Even before that - just being able to sell it for whatever cheap price it decided to sell already damaged the economy. We need to prevent those sales. minimize their farm until the GM can finally deal with it and give it the mighty ban.

    Just create systems that make the prospect of bot farming not worth it or impossible and it takes the need of using players to be an enforcer group of other players while freeing up the reporting system for other things.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Razor001 wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor001 wrote: »
    Again, admin/developer solutions are the way to go. For example, bots are often used to farm gold, if you take away the ability for third party sites to sell gold to players, you've already eliminated a large chunk of the problem before it is a problem in the first place. How about an algorithm that looks at how much a reported player farms per hour and a total to put reported players at the top of any investigation que. These are the kinds of solutions that I would be in favour of.

    I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But all of that takes time.

    As for the 2 minute thing and 8-10 people.. I did say IE - that number is just arbitrary - it's the concept that matter and one that the Dev can decide how many reports in a short amount of time will it potentially flag as abuse and not trigger anything.

    Cool - you got a discord of 30 random people. Are all 30 players at the Bot location to make the report? If not - then it means nothing.

    Once again - let's say all 30 people are actually there - but you all reported in a short time window - guess what - that bot won't get flag to be killed - cause it was reported too quickly.

    These are concept ideas that can be tweaked to find the proper balance for the GMs.

    But it allows us to do something in the meanwhile. Last thing we need is the bot to know it is safe for an extra hour, finish farming, selling it to get gold and make a sell.
    Even before that - just being able to sell it for whatever cheap price it decided to sell already damaged the economy. We need to prevent those sales. minimize their farm until the GM can finally deal with it and give it the mighty ban.

    Just create systems that make the prospect of bot farming not worth it or impossible and it takes the need of using players to be an enforcer group of other players while freeing up the reporting system for other things.

    no game has been successful at doing so afiak.
    GM activity is the first big step but it's also not the last.

    It takes a village to raise a child. It also takes a community to stop bots and make them realize it's not worth it.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • Razor001Razor001 Member
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor001 wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    Razor001 wrote: »
    Again, admin/developer solutions are the way to go. For example, bots are often used to farm gold, if you take away the ability for third party sites to sell gold to players, you've already eliminated a large chunk of the problem before it is a problem in the first place. How about an algorithm that looks at how much a reported player farms per hour and a total to put reported players at the top of any investigation que. These are the kinds of solutions that I would be in favour of.

    I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But all of that takes time.

    As for the 2 minute thing and 8-10 people.. I did say IE - that number is just arbitrary - it's the concept that matter and one that the Dev can decide how many reports in a short amount of time will it potentially flag as abuse and not trigger anything.

    Cool - you got a discord of 30 random people. Are all 30 players at the Bot location to make the report? If not - then it means nothing.

    Once again - let's say all 30 people are actually there - but you all reported in a short time window - guess what - that bot won't get flag to be killed - cause it was reported too quickly.

    These are concept ideas that can be tweaked to find the proper balance for the GMs.

    But it allows us to do something in the meanwhile. Last thing we need is the bot to know it is safe for an extra hour, finish farming, selling it to get gold and make a sell.
    Even before that - just being able to sell it for whatever cheap price it decided to sell already damaged the economy. We need to prevent those sales. minimize their farm until the GM can finally deal with it and give it the mighty ban.

    Just create systems that make the prospect of bot farming not worth it or impossible and it takes the need of using players to be an enforcer group of other players while freeing up the reporting system for other things.

    no game has been successful at doing so afiak.
    GM activity is the first big step but it's also not the last.

    It takes a village to raise a child. It also takes a community to stop bots and make them realize it's not worth it.

    Well, it's obvious we don't see eye to eye. How about we agree to disagree.
  • StreviStrevi Member
    until this game releases, bots will become self-aware and demand rights
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/11/meta-researchers-create-ai-that-masters-diplomacy-tricking-human-players/
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    You are never going to get rid of bots entirely, and Intrepid knows this. There is no system you could use to elliminate bots from the game. No matter what, there will always be a very small percentage of players who will use them for various reasons.

    The goal instead is to prevent 90% of players from using bots, and the best way (in my opinion) of doing this is to make it so that the majority of players don't feel the NEED to use them. The majority of the time, when the average person uses a bot it's so they don't have to manually do some very tedious but necessary task. If players are resorting to bots rather than actually playing the game, that is a failure of the game systems.

    Why should I spend 8-12 hours a day manually farming gold/mats for raiding when I can just have a bot do it for me while I sleep?
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