Greetings, glorious testers!

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.

To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Basic attacks in games

SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
I've been playing a lot of Outworld lately and it's basic attack system is extremely interesting. There's more than LMB, infact you can LMB and MMB to form a variety of maneuvers in conjunction with movement.

Anyone else play games that have pretty interesting basic attack systems?

Comments

  • bltablta Member
    Nier games had that as well, can make combo moves depending on movement, very satisfying!
    I can't recall any that were just basic attacks purely, I guess games like smah bros or brawlhalla?

    It would be interesting to have a game based on mouse movements, like mouse forward with LMB would be different than mouse back with LMB, etc
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Does BDO apply here? Cause it's all about movement-based attacks.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The question is difficult, actually...

    So like, Monster Hunter?

    (please don't take this the wrong way I have no other quick way to say it)
    MMO players don't often play more complex Action games, so I have no way to tell if you are in that camp, or the camp who does play them but is asking about something completely different because of inexperience.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Does BDO apply here? Cause it's all about movement-based attacks.

    Any game.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    The question is difficult, actually...

    So like, Monster Hunter?

    (please don't take this the wrong way I have no other quick way to say it)
    MMO players don't often play more complex Action games, so I have no way to tell if you are in that camp, or the camp who does play them but is asking about something completely different because of inexperience.

    I was just seeing what games people played that had very interesting basic attack systems like Outward does.

    In my 20+ years of MMO gaming and 30+ years of gaming I enjoy finding little systems like that. Really all it is.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Solvryn wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Does BDO apply here? Cause it's all about movement-based attacks.

    Any game.

    In that case, can I also assume that 'Basic Attack' means 'use your primary weapon, little or no special flourish or windup'?

    I would need a way to distinguish 'games where one does flashy things with your standard primary weapon' from 'standard things done with the primary weapon'. To me, a 'Basic Attack' usually only means the second one, but I might be jumping too far.

    EDIT: Figured out how to ask properly.

    "Is everything shown here a Basic Attack?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OltfWqxcGUs
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Rakion... a very very old korean arena game. Super fun during it's prime. Lots of combo moves working off the basic attack
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    In that case, can I also assume that 'Basic Attack' means 'use your primary weapon, little or no special flourish or windup'?

    I would need a way to distinguish 'games where one does flashy things with your standard primary weapon' from 'standard things done with the primary weapon'. To me, a 'Basic Attack' usually only means the second one, but I might be jumping too far.
    I think that martial arts game that you keep mentioning to me would probably fit. I keep forgetting its name :D Wanted to post it here, cause it looked like you do "basic attacks" there, but they all have different executions.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Does BDO apply here? Cause it's all about movement-based attacks.

    Any game.

    In that case, can I also assume that 'Basic Attack' means 'use your primary weapon, little or no special flourish or windup'?

    I would need a way to distinguish 'games where one does flashy things with your standard primary weapon' from 'standard things done with the primary weapon'. To me, a 'Basic Attack' usually only means the second one, but I might be jumping too far.

    EDIT: Figured out how to ask properly.

    "Is everything shown here a Basic Attack?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OltfWqxcGUs

    Ah, I'm clarifying incredibly poorly. Usually done by your mouse buttons and not by your hotbar.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Does BDO apply here? Cause it's all about movement-based attacks.

    Any game.

    In that case, can I also assume that 'Basic Attack' means 'use your primary weapon, little or no special flourish or windup'?

    I would need a way to distinguish 'games where one does flashy things with your standard primary weapon' from 'standard things done with the primary weapon'. To me, a 'Basic Attack' usually only means the second one, but I might be jumping too far.

    EDIT: Figured out how to ask properly.

    "Is everything shown here a Basic Attack?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OltfWqxcGUs

    Ah, I'm clarifying incredibly poorly. Usually done by your mouse buttons and not by your hotbar.

    Ok, that's somewhat helpful, overall though, it comes up because Action Games of the type don't have a Hotbar to begin with.

    Forgive me, I really do forget that these experiences are not 'commonly known to everyone'.

    @NiKr, Absolver is effectively a fighting game though, and I feel like one doesn't count those EVEN if it is functionally the same. Hence why I asked about Monster Hunter to begin with. Absolver is probably much past that, despite being playable with KBM (Apparently the KBM players are quite good at it, it's actually slightly easier because you can use the mouse itself for stance changes differently)
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    NiKr, Absolver is effectively a fighting game though, and I feel like one doesn't count those EVEN if it is functionally the same. Hence why I asked about Monster Hunter to begin with. Absolver is probably much past that, despite being playable with KBM (Apparently the KBM players are quite good at it, it's actually slightly easier because you can use the mouse itself for stance changes differently)
    "Any game"'s any game :) So in a way fighting games are the exact thing with the unique basic attacks. And when you then take those mechanics into a non-2d games - that's even more unique. So I feel like it fits.
  • StalwartStalwart Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    Worst looking combat ever. 20 minutes of AC practice for a lifetime of bad visuals.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Dark souls, sekiro, elden ring, witcher 3, dragon age inquisition, tera online. All these games had top notch basic attack animations with good body posture, and each hit feels impactful.
  • StalwartStalwart Member, Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    Worst looking combat ever. 20 minutes of AC practice for a lifetime of bad visuals.

    Yeah it was pretty much animations be damned. If you could make it look good, I like it as a solution to keep basic attacks interesting. Make them fit between your skill rotation.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Stalwart wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    Worst looking combat ever. 20 minutes of AC practice for a lifetime of bad visuals.

    Yeah it was pretty much animations be damned. If you could make it look good, I like it as a solution to keep basic attacks interesting. Make them fit between your skill rotation.

    Ye but AoC had also the terrible global cooldown for all skills. AoC has individual skill CD. Weaving wont have the same impact on dmg output. Not even close.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Also, the devs stated they don't want animation cancelling in ashes.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    Eh, I liked light attacks in the Overload ult.

    I was thinking more in-depth basic attack systems.
  • StalwartStalwart Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    Eh, I liked light attacks in the Overload ult.

    I was thinking more in-depth basic attack systems.

    Yeah I was thinking basic attacks are fundamentally worse than your skills. So the more skills in your rotation the better. If a basic attack must replace a skill then it will be better the less you use it (if at all). So to make basic attacks relevant you put them between your skills, not replace your skills.

    You could take this a step further. Your basic attacks could have a pattern (light, light, heavy for example) to get the most damage out of them. Or the type of basic attack could influence the next skill you press. You can still make the basic attacks interesting but you need to keep them relevant in a jammed-pack skill rotation.

    I'm not asking for animation canceling btw. That was just what ESO did because they didn't think it through.
  • effusivemindeffusivemind Member
    Stalwart wrote: »
    Yeah I was thinking basic attacks are fundamentally worse than your skills. So the more skills in your rotation the better. If a basic attack must replace a skill then it will be better the less you use it (if at all). So to make basic attacks relevant you put them between your skills, not replace your skills.

    They can also complement each other, too. I remember one dev. update Q&A where Steven said you can potentially spec to have a chance for basic attacks to proc a bleed, and maybe there would be something like a passive where you do additional dmg to bleeding targets

  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    On a
    Stalwart wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    Eh, I liked light attacks in the Overload ult.

    I was thinking more in-depth basic attack systems.

    Yeah I was thinking basic attacks are fundamentally worse than your skills. So the more skills in your rotation the better. If a basic attack must replace a skill then it will be better the less you use it (if at all). So to make basic attacks relevant you put them between your skills, not replace your skills.

    You could take this a step further. Your basic attacks could have a pattern (light, light, heavy for example) to get the most damage out of them. Or the type of basic attack could influence the next skill you press. You can still make the basic attacks interesting but you need to keep them relevant in a jammed-pack skill rotation.

    I'm not asking for animation canceling btw. That was just what ESO did because they didn't think it through.

    I dont miss animation canceling from ESO at all lol.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    effusivemind wrote: »
    Stalwart wrote: »
    Yeah I was thinking basic attacks are fundamentally worse than your skills. So the more skills in your rotation the better. If a basic attack must replace a skill then it will be better the less you use it (if at all). So to make basic attacks relevant you put them between your skills, not replace your skills.

    They can also complement each other, too. I remember one dev. update Q&A where Steven said you can potentially spec to have a chance for basic attacks to proc a bleed, and maybe there would be something like a passive where you do additional dmg to bleeding targets

    That's what I'm experiencing from Outworld, its really interesting.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Stalwart wrote: »
    I know it was a contentious topic for some but I actually liked weaving in basic attacks in ESO. Sometimes also referred to as animation canceling. You learn a rhythm of light attack then skill. The better you can match your rhythm to the global cool down the better dps you can do.

    ohhh sounds like SMITE...
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • DezmerizingDezmerizing Member, Alpha Two
    I am fine by anything but PLEASE no important controls on MMB by default. >.< And absolutely nothing combat related! I personally loathe using the MMB in hectic combat.
    lizhctbms6kg.png
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dezmerizing wrote: »
    I am fine by anything but PLEASE no important controls on MMB by default. >.< And absolutely nothing combat related! I personally loathe using the MMB in hectic combat.

    I’m just looking for interesting basic attacks friend.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Thankfully we got q spam changed.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Thankfully we got q spam changed.

    troof
Sign In or Register to comment.