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Am just going to come out and say it. Alpha 2 sooner rather then later.

BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
edited January 2023 in General Discussion
So last stream was great imo, am a bit sad i went to bed and woke up to a new tank preview.
Whould have watched them both, anyways!

The game too me seem pretty good now.
Its enough there to test and i hope they launche the Alpha 2 sooner rather then later.

It whould be best for us, to get hands on now and give valuable feedback in a early stage.
And not have Intrepid hold off and be stuck on a path when we get Alpha 2.
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Comments

  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Blip wrote: »
    So last stream was great imo, am a bit sad i went to bed and woke up to a new tank preview.
    Whould have watched them both, anyways!

    The game too me seem pretty good now.
    Its enough there to test and i hope they launche the Alpha 2 sooner rather then later.

    It whould be best for us, to get hands on now and give valuable feedback in a early stage.
    And not have Intrepid hold off and be stuck on a path when we get Alpha 2.

    You can still watch it, theres a few on youtube
  • I did have that feeling also, even if it was the opposite from what I felt in late 2022. If anything, 2023 will be a high speed preperation year for an A2 at end of year OR 2024 the least! Thats what it felt like... !

    Praying to the numerous gods.
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I wholeheartedly agree. In my opinion you can't just give people videos of games and ask for public feedback on things like combat or damage mitigation or alot of other systems because honestly you need the hands on experience to know how it truly reacts in the setting fighting various enemies/players.

    And no one will know until we have alpha 2. I view most of these showcases as little more than a prerendered trailer.

    If you're asking for public feedback then the public should be testing what you're pushing.

    So to this end, I hope alpha 2 is soon.

    If not, then I hope when we get there the intrepid team isn't afraid to make drastic changes based on (possibly) negative feedback because we've all been talking out our ass because of preconceived notions on how we think the game plays, but winds up feeling drastically different.

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    The world is beautiful whenever you're here.
    And all the emptiness inside disappears.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Blip wrote: »
    So last stream was great imo, am a bit sad i went to bed and woke up to a new tank preview.
    Whould have watched them both, anyways!

    The game too me seem pretty good now.
    Its enough there to test and i hope they launche the Alpha 2 sooner rather then later.

    It whould be best for us, to get hands on now and give valuable feedback in a early stage.
    And not have Intrepid hold off and be stuck on a path when we get Alpha 2.

    It doesn't really line up with the goals, a ton of core features are still missing and from all we can tell the progress on class design has not equally developed as far as it did with the tank.

    So while I also want to play this, I don't think it is the appropriate time.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    You will have to wait for mage reveal i think before they have any plans of opening alpha 2 :P
    I feel they would want atleast 1 class for each theme so. Tank, melee dps, ranged phyiscal dps, magic dps and healer. You probaly get summoner/bard during alpha 2 but not at start and rogue im not sure where that one falls but that one might also be start of alpha 2.

    We also need to see nodes more in details first aswell since the node system is the foundation the game is built off of

    and crafting/gathering system need flesh out of.

    base like for alpha 2 i feel is Nodes working properly, those 5 base classes done and crafting/harvesting and land caravan system in i feel thats the absolute bare bones of the game.


    i will say this is there only so much feedback we can give with visuals alone since we cant get any of the feel of the game without hand on experience it makes combat feedback realth difficult or speculative which can still help but can also hurt the game too. so these class shwocases i sit more on the line of well i cant make accurate feedback appart from it looks ok or to many sparkly effects but classes realy come to how they feel when played which cant be done via videos :)

    i do hope were ast alpha 2 stage soon though kinda got nothing to play atm :( lol
  • No.

    Alpha 2 is what the major streamers and with them millions of other people will base their opinion on this game on.

    It needs to be a very good impression.

    Best they release it in 2024 than release it ''unpolished'' like the last class previews were.

    You can tell from the Cleric and Tank previews the game is still a long way away from being anything satisfactory for an Alpha 2.

    Stop putting pressure on the devs to do something they really shouldn't do.

  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Ironhope wrote: »
    No.

    Alpha 2 is what the major streamers and with them millions of other people will base their opinion on this game on.

    It needs to be a very good impression.

    Best they release it in 2024 than release it ''unpolished'' like the last class previews were.

    You can tell from the Cleric and Tank previews the game is still a long way away from being anything satisfactory for an Alpha 2.

    Stop putting pressure on the devs to do something they really shouldn't do.


    Not to be picky here but it seems important to mention that while the Ranger, Cleric and Fighter have been shown, none of them had a formal "class reveal" yet at least if you go by the titles of the showcases in which they appeared.

    Which is a detail of medium importance I'd say because to me that means we will most likely get something like that before or shortly after the raid boss showcase. These could be a bit shorter as we have seen them before with some explanations, however especially when looking at the Cleric, I would suspect we will get a bit more abilities because with just 4 of them (single target heal, chain heal, heal all and chains) it might not be possible to actually fully function against a boss creature. This is just my guess though.

    Apart from that I absolutely agree, there is a lot at stake with the start of Alpha 2 and even if a lot of people will run their mouth for it not coming out sooner, as soon as it is released all prior grief will be forgotten if the result warrants praise of that level.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There are a ton of features still missing from the game that we need to be able to test in A2:
    • Node play
    • All the other Artisan Gameplay Loops
    • Player Markets
    • Weapon Trees
    • Augments
    • Housing
    • Seafaring
    • etc.

    The game is just not in a state that is appropriate for A2.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    maouw wrote: »
    There are a ton of features still missing from the game that we need to be able to test in A2:
    • Node play
    • All the other Artisan Gameplay Loops
    • Player Markets
    • Weapon Trees
    • Augments
    • Housing
    • Seafaring
    • etc.

    The game is just not in a state that is appropriate for A2.

    I think that we dont need everything at once to test, but we could test some systems at a time and let them update as they go. They get more consistent feedback that way too as people will have to focus on the systems that are there and not treat it as a early access but a Alpha, Beta is the time for content testing.

  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Yes, we need testing to provide valuable feedback, people using buzz words like "the combat feels" without getting to play it doesn't make much sense.

    I also believe we should get Alpha 2 sooner rather than later, and the arguments against it are pretty baseless

    people say a long alpha 2 will kill the excitement and discovery and burn the testers, this is just stupid, did anyone forget all these KR mmos that release for us have been out there for years before launch? god there was content creators and guilds playing lost ark for YEARS and still it had a +1M players launch literally nobody lost interest

    if you don't want to lose your discovery just don't fucking watch alpha testing.
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Hopefully, it'll be: Alpha 2 when Intrepid say it's ready, and not a second before.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Hopefully, it'll be: Alpha 2 when Intrepid say it's ready, and not a second before.
    If they wanted too they could say that now, and some benefits to integrating testing early on in the software development and delivery process is.
    • Identifying logical oversights.
    • Avoiding bugs and exploits.
    • Bridging the gap between testers and evolving client expectations.
    • Providing first user feedback.
    • Helping you understand user needs.
    • Allowing you to make better design decisions.
    • Helping you enhance your product.
    • Enabling you to find and fix issues with your product before release.
    • Helping you gauge how users interact with your products.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    They should release it when they are ready in aligned for their goals. Not a moment earlier because people simply want to test things as early as possible.

    The only earlier test that should be going on are spot test.
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    They should release it when they are ready in aligned for their goals. Not a moment earlier because people simply want to test things as early as possible.

    The only earlier test that should be going on are spot test.

    I dont get this, more and longer testing is better for everyone. Its not a bad thing at all.
  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member, Alpha Two
    @blip it takes resources to have meaningful testing, resources that would normally be deployed towards developing the things that are being tested.
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member, Alpha Two
    The game needs to get its core mechanics right before releasing an Alpha 2, or else people will steer the game away from Steven's vision.
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    The game needs to get its core mechanics right before releasing an Alpha 2, or else people will steer the game away from Steven's vision.

    Honestly i think Intrepid and Steven has more integraty then that.
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    @blip it takes resources to have meaningful testing, resources that would normally be deployed towards developing the things that are being tested.

    If resources are being allocated to that, that means they are fixing a issiue they whould have had to fix anyway. So the net amount is the same just used at a earlyer point in development.

    That in turn saves them from more issiues down the line so they whould save resources / money in the long term.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    No.
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  • UboonUboon Member, Alpha Two
    Perhaps a week long combat test 'Alpha 1.5' would benefit the devs, playing with the skills already showcased in any old zone, with a small PvP area. Hang on, this is probably what the spot testing is. Not that I'm in that, boo hoo.
  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member, Alpha Two
    Blip wrote: »
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    @blip it takes resources to have meaningful testing, resources that would normally be deployed towards developing the things that are being tested.

    If resources are being allocated to that, that means they are fixing a issiue they whould have had to fix anyway. So the net amount is the same just used at a earlyer point in development.

    That in turn saves them from more issiues down the line so they whould save resources / money in the long term.

    You don't design periphery systems before core systems
  • I do wonder what the internal goals are for Intrepid to launch Alpha 2. (Although I am sure that we are some ways off them being reached).

    They really need all 9 races with 2 genders each, represented in the character creator.
    That Nodes and their related facilities are able to level from Wilderness to Metropolis.
    Ideally, all 8 Classes and their secondary Archetypes are present (They won't be complete, but having at least several skills for each to see how they interact is such an important part of testing.)
    Responsive gathering.
    A decent environment and selection of NPC's.
    Functioning UI

    Everything else, from Caravan's to Monster Coin events, to Sieges, Quests, Animal Husbandry, Sailing etc are all of secondary importance. If the game gets core movement, functionality and combat gameplay down in well-represented customizable character models in a responsive environment ala Node progression, they are golden. Everything else can be built on top.
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    @WHIT3ROS3 Well said and very true. I always expected the Alpha 2 whould get iterations with added content anyways.
  • I have to agree that it shouldn't come until Intrepid thinks it's ready. I don't care what Steven says about the game already being funded and not needing people to buy in early. The office is in SF, everyone knows how expensive it his to do business there. Linkedin reports 107 employees, I'm guessing there are more by now. One listing for Audio programmer is for $98,000-137,000/year. If the average income there is $100,000/year it means whoever is bankrolling this is paying out more than $10,000,000/year not including any potential benefits for payroll. I highly doubt they want this alpha stage to last any longer then it has to. It will be here when it's ready, I am sure.
    Also, bring back the Bard. That guy was awesome. :(
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    sternzy wrote: »
    I have to agree that it shouldn't come until Intrepid thinks it's ready. I don't care what Steven says about the game already being funded and not needing people to buy in early. The office is in SF, everyone knows how expensive it his to do business there. Linkedin reports 107 employees, I'm guessing there are more by now. One listing for Audio programmer is for $98,000-137,000/year. If the average income there is $100,000/year it means whoever is bankrolling this is paying out more than $10,000,000/year not including any potential benefits for payroll. I highly doubt they want this alpha stage to last any longer then it has to. It will be here when it's ready, I am sure.
    Also, bring back the Bard. That guy was awesome. :(
    Steven dumped around $50mil of his own money (iirc) already and from what he said in the last stream, they've made, at the very least, $25mil from alpha2 alone. And that's not counting all the alpha1 purchases and any potential cosmetics sales over the years. And he's ready to pay more if the development stretches out for longer.

    In other words, at the very worst they'd be riiight at the end of their money (not really, cause they didn't start with 100+ employees).
  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    @nikr nah they are probably closer to 40 million in revenue, probably 50 million in the hole. They are chilling, with
    25 mill for just 100k at 250 for A2, not including alpha 1 and kickstarter and cosmetics
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Don't expect A2 for this year. My original assessment was Summer of this year but the November Video gave me all the indication it wasn't going to be met. Solidified on the Dec Stream and judging this month - on just NPC mobs alone - we are far from touching A2 this year.

    Technically, it is still on track my original timeline of 2026 Launch Date.

    Throne and Liberty has been in production since 2011
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    Don't expect A2 for this year. My original assessment was Summer of this year but the November Video gave me all the indication it wasn't going to be met. Solidified on the Dec Stream and judging this month - on just NPC mobs alone - we are far from touching A2 this year.

    Technically, it is still on track my original timeline of 2026 Launch Date.

    Throne and Liberty has been in production since 2011

    Dido, originally thought this summer, feeling a lot less certain these days.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    Don't expect A2 for this year. My original assessment was Summer of this year but the November Video gave me all the indication it wasn't going to be met. Solidified on the Dec Stream and judging this month - on just NPC mobs alone - we are far from touching A2 this year.

    Technically, it is still on track my original timeline of 2026 Launch Date.

    Throne and Liberty has been in production since 2011

    Got to agree with that, it would be (to say it diplomatically) highly ambitious for Intrepid to try and start Alpha 2 this year in light of all the features they want to test. And while it is true that some of the features could be added later, I think to seriously assess them they have to be working all at the same time from the very beginning, instead of being implemented bit by bit, which basically pushed Alpha 2 at least into mid 2024.


    With that being said - I think they mentioned there would be "persistent" Alpha 2 servers and to this day I haven't quite figured out what they meant by that. Sure, it probably means there will be more than just spot testing and then they shut the thing down again, but it kind of sounds like they want to run these Alpha 2 servers for a considerable amount of time, maybe even until shortly before the Beta phase? I don't know, this just got me confused.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    With that being said - I think they mentioned there would be "persistent" Alpha 2 servers and to this day I haven't quite figured out what they meant by that. Sure, it probably means there will be more than just spot testing and then they shut the thing down again, but it kind of sounds like they want to run these Alpha 2 servers for a considerable amount of time, maybe even until shortly before the Beta phase? I don't know, this just got me confused.
    They want to run them through the beta and then make it the pts iirc.
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