@Depraved in terms of player driven economy it is a flaw having to craft stacks of a certain item and then nobody will use or buy them for any reason in the future
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
@Depraved in terms of player driven economy it is a flaw having to craft stacks of a certain item and then nobody will use or buy them for any reason in the future
people use them while leveling up. the issue could be that people level up too fast then.
also, instead of making low level items useful at max level, change the leveling requirements. that can also fix the problem, and its much easier
@Depraved in terms of player driven economy it is a flaw having to craft stacks of a certain item and then nobody will use or buy them for any reason in the future
people use them while leveling up. the issue could be that people level up too fast then.
also, instead of making low level items useful at max level, change the leveling requirements. that can also fix the problem, and its much easier
Any blacksmith could craft like 30-50 swords, but for sure this will not be absorved by the market, that's the first problem....
The second problem is that nearly all devs in history aren't really creative, nearly never devs came with a system that makes things interesting. Nowadays nearly all games are super vanilla, almost never you will lose an item.
But EVE Online for example, people are crafting the the smallest tier 1 items the entire time and the market absorvs everything, this is because in EVE in death you have a 100% loss and in your loot half the items will be destroyed and the half will be looted.
EVE is the superior game in terms of crafting, marketing and looting.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
@Depraved in terms of player driven economy it is a flaw having to craft stacks of a certain item and then nobody will use or buy them for any reason in the future
people use them while leveling up. the issue could be that people level up too fast then.
also, instead of making low level items useful at max level, change the leveling requirements. that can also fix the problem, and its much easier
Any blacksmith could craft like 30-50 swords, but for sure this will not be absorved by the market, that's the first problem....
The second problem is that nearly all devs in history aren't really creative, nearly never devs came with a system that makes things interesting. Nowadays nearly all games are super vanilla, almost never you will lose an item.
But EVE Online for example, people are crafting the the smallest tier 1 items the entire time and the market absorvs everything, this is because in EVE in death you have a 100% loss and in your loot half the items will be destroyed and the half will be looted.
EVE is the superior game in terms of crafting, marketing and looting.
I don't see how the long term investment nature of Ashes of Creation goes together with a 100% loss on death system.
It might work for what Eve is, but in a game that wants to have strong character progression you can't make people lose all their stuff on death without having to accept significant drops in player base. Most people who play MMORPGs are not about continuously rebuilding or maintenance.
I never understood why is it so important for people to keep low level crafting relevant. i mean if its there, then sure. or if its used to distribute player population, then sure. but some people make it sound like if low level crafting isn't useful, then the game sucks..i mean come on just level up lol.
As Arya said, it's about the economy and usefulness of the lowbie stuff. The game can only really survive if it keeps gaining new players (cause it'll definitely lose people along the way). When those newbies come to the game, they'll have to level their artisanry, going from the low tier stuff to high tier.
If the low tier stuff can only be sold to the NPC vendor, because literally every crafter in the game has crafted hundreds of useless low tier items and have thrown them out on the market at abysmal prices - then those new players will not only feel shitty about their crafting profession for pretty much all the lower half-2/3 of the lvls, but would also disconnect them from the game's economy.
But if you make low tier stuff useful in some way, your economy will be much more holistic and even new players will immediately become a part of it, which is great for early lvl player retention.
But I posted a thread on a design that lets you craft higher lvl stuff really early on. #ad
@Depraved in terms of player driven economy it is a flaw having to craft stacks of a certain item and then nobody will use or buy them for any reason in the future
people use them while leveling up. the issue could be that people level up too fast then.
also, instead of making low level items useful at max level, change the leveling requirements. that can also fix the problem, and its much easier
Any blacksmith could craft like 30-50 swords, but for sure this will not be absorved by the market, that's the first problem....
The second problem is that nearly all devs in history aren't really creative, nearly never devs came with a system that makes things interesting. Nowadays nearly all games are super vanilla, almost never you will lose an item.
But EVE Online for example, people are crafting the the smallest tier 1 items the entire time and the market absorvs everything, this is because in EVE in death you have a 100% loss and in your loot half the items will be destroyed and the half will be looted.
EVE is the superior game in terms of crafting, marketing and looting.
I don't see how the long term investment nature of Ashes of Creation goes together with a 100% loss on death system.
It might work for what Eve is, but in a game that wants to have strong character progression you can't make people lose all their stuff on death without having to accept significant drops in player base. Most people who play MMORPGs are not about continuously rebuilding or maintenance.
In fantasy MMOs having 100% would be harsh as hell, since carebears and hoarders are accumulating their legendaries, item sets and transmogs.
Still, devs can't even do their jobs in bringing situations where people could change their gear and have 100% risk.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
There should be Artisan Packages that can be crafted and sold to NPCs like the top tiers in BDO. However, I think it should be expanded to Artisan Packages every ten levels with appropriate taxation in tow.
@NiKr well pointed! When the game population is increasing, because the game is new, the community and the market have the false impression that everything is OK, but as soon as the population is stable or in decline then the problem is glaring, @Depraved.
People should have an extra leage in the arena where there's 100% loot drop, let them people steal all the loot even if their intention is just scrapping everything later.
When there's multiple item sinks, it is very helpful in the long run when there's less players in the game.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
There should be Artisan Packages that can be crafted and sold to NPCs like the top tiers in BDO. However, I think it should be expanded to Artisan Packages every ten levels with appropriate taxation in tow.
Imo selling to NPC should be the very very last thing you should think of doing when it comes to artisanry and even then it should be super rare, and ideally shouldn't happen at all. Selling to NPCs is just too big of a crutch for the game's economy.
@Depraved in terms of player driven economy it is a flaw having to craft stacks of a certain item and then nobody will use or buy them for any reason in the future
people use them while leveling up. the issue could be that people level up too fast then.
also, instead of making low level items useful at max level, change the leveling requirements. that can also fix the problem, and its much easier
Any blacksmith could craft like 30-50 swords, but for sure this will not be absorved by the market, that's the first problem....
The second problem is that nearly all devs in history aren't really creative, nearly never devs came with a system that makes things interesting. Nowadays nearly all games are super vanilla, almost never you will lose an item.
But EVE Online for example, people are crafting the the smallest tier 1 items the entire time and the market absorvs everything, this is because in EVE in death you have a 100% loss and in your loot half the items will be destroyed and the half will be looted.
EVE is the superior game in terms of crafting, marketing and looting.
well it works in eve because its a full loot game.
the problems presented in this thread can be solved in different ways, not just making low level items useful at max level. low level items should be useful at low level tho, which doesn't happen too often because you outlevel your items in a day.
if low level items are useful at max level, that also increases the price, making it harder for new players to acquire them...
we need to see the system as a whole, and how every system interacts with the rest of the game. a solution cant be isolated.
I'm not really against low level items being useful at max level, I just don't see why it is so important. the problems presented can be solved in different ways.
There should be Artisan Packages that can be crafted and sold to NPCs like the top tiers in BDO. However, I think it should be expanded to Artisan Packages every ten levels with appropriate taxation in tow.
Imo selling to NPC should be the very very last thing you should think of doing when it comes to artisanry and even then it should be super rare, and ideally shouldn't happen at all. Selling to NPCs is just too big of a crutch for the game's economy.
It's not about the games economy, its about player and node economy. A crafter might craft 100 swords and create an artisan package out of 10 swords. Same as a crafting quest. It matters not what the community is like if a fair system is present at each level bracket. It's a much simpler solution than the fandangled ideation.
It's not about the games economy, its about player and node economy. A crafter might craft 100 swords and create an artisan package out of 10 swords. Same as a crafting quest. It matters not what the community is like if a fair system is present at each level bracket. It's a much simpler solution than the fandangled ideation.
And that's kinda my problem. I don't like crafting those 100 swords. I mean, I love it, but I think that that should not be the case. But we got no clue how Intrepid will balance their crafting, so we'll just have to see.
It's not about the games economy, its about player and node economy. A crafter might craft 100 swords and create an artisan package out of 10 swords. Same as a crafting quest. It matters not what the community is like if a fair system is present at each level bracket. It's a much simpler solution than the fandangled ideation.
And that's kinda my problem. I don't like crafting those 100 swords. I mean, I love it, but I think that that should not be the case. But we got no clue how Intrepid will balance their crafting, so we'll just have to see.
I'm not sure how balanced the whole system will be. You need a reason to craft a sword - not dump 100 swords onto a market to match the other 1000 swords of the sane type from the other 10 local weapon smiths.
1. Having crafting skills improvements not limited to the crafting of an item. Expend the skill ups to maintenance, repairs, maybe cosmetic changes to the items and to the crafting of individual components (sword pommel, guard, blade, .etc). Also allowing a crafter to work on items above what they can make themselves. For some repair and maintenance, and within certain limits (maybe the lower ranks for the next tier). Resharpening a blade, changing the covering on a chair, redoing the stitches on a robe, that kind of things.
2. This one is close to sell to a merchant... Some node progression or city upgrade requirements should be items crafted by players. The city want to improve the guards? Well, they'll need to be equipped. Need X spears, X shield, X boots, and so on. Once the mayor put their stamp on the documents, an open quest is created and the taxes will be used to pay for the newly crafted items. New buildings need furniture, ranging guards need mounts, etc, etc. To maintain everything in good order, quests could be about repairing used city property, you're given a crooked mace, you change its shaft (skill up!) and turn it back for a few gold.
3. Interdisciplinary items. Each professions has items needed in another one for some other item (WoW engineering had lots of that). A mount need not only the animal but also a saddle and steer-ups, bridle, shoeing sometime. Those items don't always need to be difficult to craft, or exotic material, and so they could always be in demand.
Imo selling to NPC should be the very very last thing you should think of doing when it comes to artisanry and even then it should be super rare, and ideally shouldn't happen at all. Selling to NPCs is just too big of a crutch for the game's economy.
It would be cooler if we could use low level gear of artisans for things like supplying the guards of smaller nodes and explorations that unlock new POIs. That way, players will have to compete with these expansion and maintenance utilities, the game could adjust the rewards (reputation & money) depending on how long they haven't been supplied.
I remember there is a "maintenance" component to Nodes anyways so supplying Nodes with artisan materials to keep it from degrading would be a sensible mechanic to add.
Still, devs can't even do their jobs in bringing situations where people could change their gear and have 100% risk.
I'm not sure if I understood what you meant by that.
In general, along history game devs couldn't come up with a good balance between risk, reward, looting; the lack of creativity is disturbing.
Reading through all the complaints you had about the design decisions and the players, I can't help but wonder why you are even following this project tbh.
Still, devs can't even do their jobs in bringing situations where people could change their gear and have 100% risk.
I'm not sure if I understood what you meant by that.
In general, along history game devs couldn't come up with a good balance between risk, reward, looting; the lack of creativity is disturbing.
Reading through all the complaints you had about the design decisions and the players, I can't help but wonder why you are even following this project tbh.
I pretty much like at least 80% of AoC's ideas, because AoC is different then all the other tasteless games which are just copy cats of each other.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Comments
people use them while leveling up. the issue could be that people level up too fast then.
also, instead of making low level items useful at max level, change the leveling requirements. that can also fix the problem, and its much easier
Any blacksmith could craft like 30-50 swords, but for sure this will not be absorved by the market, that's the first problem....
The second problem is that nearly all devs in history aren't really creative, nearly never devs came with a system that makes things interesting. Nowadays nearly all games are super vanilla, almost never you will lose an item.
But EVE Online for example, people are crafting the the smallest tier 1 items the entire time and the market absorvs everything, this is because in EVE in death you have a 100% loss and in your loot half the items will be destroyed and the half will be looted.
EVE is the superior game in terms of crafting, marketing and looting.
I don't see how the long term investment nature of Ashes of Creation goes together with a 100% loss on death system.
It might work for what Eve is, but in a game that wants to have strong character progression you can't make people lose all their stuff on death without having to accept significant drops in player base. Most people who play MMORPGs are not about continuously rebuilding or maintenance.
If the low tier stuff can only be sold to the NPC vendor, because literally every crafter in the game has crafted hundreds of useless low tier items and have thrown them out on the market at abysmal prices - then those new players will not only feel shitty about their crafting profession for pretty much all the lower half-2/3 of the lvls, but would also disconnect them from the game's economy.
But if you make low tier stuff useful in some way, your economy will be much more holistic and even new players will immediately become a part of it, which is great for early lvl player retention.
But I posted a thread on a design that lets you craft higher lvl stuff really early on. #ad
In fantasy MMOs having 100% would be harsh as hell, since carebears and hoarders are accumulating their legendaries, item sets and transmogs.
Still, devs can't even do their jobs in bringing situations where people could change their gear and have 100% risk.
People should have an extra leage in the arena where there's 100% loot drop, let them people steal all the loot even if their intention is just scrapping everything later.
When there's multiple item sinks, it is very helpful in the long run when there's less players in the game.
well it works in eve because its a full loot game.
the problems presented in this thread can be solved in different ways, not just making low level items useful at max level. low level items should be useful at low level tho, which doesn't happen too often because you outlevel your items in a day.
if low level items are useful at max level, that also increases the price, making it harder for new players to acquire them...
we need to see the system as a whole, and how every system interacts with the rest of the game. a solution cant be isolated.
I'm not really against low level items being useful at max level, I just don't see why it is so important. the problems presented can be solved in different ways.
It's not about the games economy, its about player and node economy. A crafter might craft 100 swords and create an artisan package out of 10 swords. Same as a crafting quest. It matters not what the community is like if a fair system is present at each level bracket. It's a much simpler solution than the fandangled ideation.
Creating reasons for a high level player to use a low level item is the first step!
We should have though of reasons, just to begin with... and then maybe wreck the item durability.
I'm not sure how balanced the whole system will be. You need a reason to craft a sword - not dump 100 swords onto a market to match the other 1000 swords of the sane type from the other 10 local weapon smiths.
1. Having crafting skills improvements not limited to the crafting of an item. Expend the skill ups to maintenance, repairs, maybe cosmetic changes to the items and to the crafting of individual components (sword pommel, guard, blade, .etc). Also allowing a crafter to work on items above what they can make themselves. For some repair and maintenance, and within certain limits (maybe the lower ranks for the next tier). Resharpening a blade, changing the covering on a chair, redoing the stitches on a robe, that kind of things.
2. This one is close to sell to a merchant... Some node progression or city upgrade requirements should be items crafted by players. The city want to improve the guards? Well, they'll need to be equipped. Need X spears, X shield, X boots, and so on. Once the mayor put their stamp on the documents, an open quest is created and the taxes will be used to pay for the newly crafted items. New buildings need furniture, ranging guards need mounts, etc, etc. To maintain everything in good order, quests could be about repairing used city property, you're given a crooked mace, you change its shaft (skill up!) and turn it back for a few gold.
3. Interdisciplinary items. Each professions has items needed in another one for some other item (WoW engineering had lots of that). A mount need not only the animal but also a saddle and steer-ups, bridle, shoeing sometime. Those items don't always need to be difficult to craft, or exotic material, and so they could always be in demand.
Be sure to read all there is about crafting on the wiki! https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Crafted_items
huh timestamp?
Vaknar quoted it all. The dedication is extreme lol.
I'm not sure if I understood what you meant by that.
It would be cooler if we could use low level gear of artisans for things like supplying the guards of smaller nodes and explorations that unlock new POIs. That way, players will have to compete with these expansion and maintenance utilities, the game could adjust the rewards (reputation & money) depending on how long they haven't been supplied.
I remember there is a "maintenance" component to Nodes anyways so supplying Nodes with artisan materials to keep it from degrading would be a sensible mechanic to add.
I meant for the quote, cant find it xD
In general, along history game devs couldn't come up with a good balance between risk, reward, looting; the lack of creativity is disturbing.
Reading through all the complaints you had about the design decisions and the players, I can't help but wonder why you are even following this project tbh.
I pretty much like at least 80% of AoC's ideas, because AoC is different then all the other tasteless games which are just copy cats of each other.