I would think less a range dependent thing, more reload speed vs damage. Shortbows fast low damage, Longbows a touch slower more damage, crossbows if accurate would have slow reload and longbow damage. Heavy crossbow would be the highest damage but with much longer load time.
The point of a crossbow was to allow a less trained man at arms to be effective at range, whereas an archer had to train for years to be effective. That could be a problem if applied to ashes combat system (theoretically) if the crossbow follows its historical use. A build made for tanking or melee dps could use it for a large ranged damage hit, lessening the effectiveness comparitively of building for ranged combat.
Should be added that for "sniping" purposes, the crossbow should never be thought of as that. They are massively more powerful than bows at short range, but the power curve and accuracy drops alot faster than with a bow, so the opposite is more accurate. At least in a historical sense.
I would think less a range dependent thing, more reload speed vs damage. Shortbows fast low damage, Longbows a touch slower more damage, crossbows if accurate would have slow reload and longbow damage. Heavy crossbow would be the highest damage but with much longer load time.
The point of a crossbow was to allow a less trained man at arms to be effective at range, whereas an archer had to train for years to be effective. That could be a problem if applied to ashes combat system (theoretically) if the crossbow follows its historical use. A build made for tanking or melee dps could use it for a large ranged damage hit, lessening the effectiveness comparitively of building for ranged combat.
Should be added that for "sniping" purposes, the crossbow should never be thought of as that. They are massively more powerful than bows at short range, but the power curve and accuracy drops alot faster than with a bow, so the opposite is more accurate. At least in a historical sense.
A historical crossbow requires an actual mechanism in order to load it. An Archer vs Crossbowman the Archer is going to win. They'd only be affective in a phalanx with a tower shield.
I just think it's unfair for the Ranger to only have two weapon options for ranged: both being bows. Meanwhile the lion’s share of classes get a plethora of options.
The Ranger has exactly the same ranged weapon choices as every other archetype.
This is not WoW, it doesn't need the same weapons as WoW.
So, I am confused. Will there be crossbows and potion throwers in Ashes? During the live stream, it was implied that we would have them in the game. But, recently I heard that they won't be in the game. Weren't they in Apoc? Weren't there purchasable skins? Weren't they a stretch goal and if so isn't Intrepid obligated to put them in the game? Help clear this up for me, because I am trying to figure it out.
maybe they will be added in the future. why are they so important tho? its just a shape/skin/visual thing. crossbow or bow, you are still a ranger
I just think it's unfair for the Ranger to only have two weapon options for ranged: both being bows. Meanwhile the lion’s share of classes get a plethora of options.
The Ranger has exactly the same ranged weapon choices as every other archetype.
This is not WoW, it doesn't need the same weapons as WoW.
WoW had more weapon choices for a non magical ranged class in 2004 then Ashes has now. I just want Ashes to be the best that it can be. I'm a role player. I want that diversity of appearance.
So, I am confused. Will there be crossbows and potion throwers in Ashes? During the live stream, it was implied that we would have them in the game. But, recently I heard that they won't be in the game. Weren't they in Apoc? Weren't there purchasable skins? Weren't they a stretch goal and if so isn't Intrepid obligated to put them in the game? Help clear this up for me, because I am trying to figure it out.
maybe they will be added in the future. why are they so important tho? its just a shape/skin/visual thing. crossbow or bow, you are still a ranger
Maybe they will. Maybe you're right. I just want a large amount of appearances.
WoW had more weapon choices for a non magical ranged class in 2004 then Ashes has now. I just want Ashes to be the best that it can be. I'm a role player. I want that diversity of appearance.
Then your standards differ from ours and from Intrepid's. They do want gameplay difference between weapons, instead of just having different skins for the exact same gameplay. I'd rather have 2 bows that play differently on release, with potential for way more weapons down the line, than having a single bow with 10 skins but only one style of gameplay.
I respect your standard. I just feel like it's being over complicated. Agree to disagree. With that logic, why couldn't they give crossbows their own gameplay feel later down the line but add the appearance first?
With that logic, why couldn't they give crossbows their own gameplay feel later down the line but add the appearance first?
Because that would confuse way too many people? You have a short bow that looks and plays like a short bow. You have a long bow that does the same. And then you have a crossbow that plays like something else? It's better to have a cohesive presentation across all facets of the game. A thing should work like it looks, if you want people to think that it does.
I respect your standard. I just feel like it's being over complicated. Agree to disagree. With that logic, why couldn't they give crossbows their own gameplay feel later down the line but add the appearance first?
They would be adding in an asset that has no value outside of cosmetics only.
I guess I'm coming from this from the perspective of a roleplayer that prioritizes character expression and not a PvXer that prioritizes complex and varying weapon systems for each weapon. I understand where you folks are coming from.
Bow is more strength. The beauty of the crossbow is any peasant can be trained to use them - much like guns. If we talk Genoese Crossbowmen then yeah, strength is required for the pavis but I do not think you want to discuss military history lol.
I do agree, variable rate of fire would be excellent - something of a trained art. I also loved the idea of the Light Crossbow and Heavier Crossbow. I feel the scope is there but the scope isn't wanted by Steven and the devs right now.
most str training doesnt tend to help with drawing a bow it mainly uses the muscles behind your shoulder blade area and basicly doesnt use any arm strength which you typicaly seen as str which works well for lifting thing but not necessarily drawing a bow.
im a stick and never do weights and i can draw a heavy pound bow then 90% of the people i know that went to a gym or lifted weight simply cause drawing a bow uses a muscle that is rarily used when it comes to str related activity.
I guess I'm coming from this from the perspective of a roleplayer that prioritizes character expression and not a PvXer that prioritizes complex and varying weapon systems for each weapon. I understand where you folks are coming from.
People are coming from a understanding that its alpha and things are added and removed, it is normal for game development. This is something you need to realize, and why i always say there are plenty of elements that are also bad for consumers to experience. They do not care or understand the issues that come with making a game they only want to play it, it's a double-edged sword for getting feedback.
I'm curious, what exactly is a potion thrower? I imagine it as a handheld trebuchet inspired device, maybe a modified atlatl with a sling attached to the end? I'd imagine a slingshot device would be too volatile to throw a breakable potion. What were they supposed to be?
Edit: nm looked it up, so its just a gun, and from the looks of it a grenade launcher. Yeah I don't see where that fits in a balanced pvp setting. Knife to a gun fight comes to mind.
I'm curious, what exactly is a potion thrower? I imagine it as a handheld trebuchet inspired device, maybe a modified atlatl with a sling attached to the end? I'd imagine a slingshot device would be too volatile to throw a breakable potion. What were they supposed to be?
It's a fantasy attempt at a M203 (which is the Grandchild of the Blunderbuss).
Bow is more strength. The beauty of the crossbow is any peasant can be trained to use them - much like guns. If we talk Genoese Crossbowmen then yeah, strength is required for the pavis but I do not think you want to discuss military history lol.
I do agree, variable rate of fire would be excellent - something of a trained art. I also loved the idea of the Light Crossbow and Heavier Crossbow. I feel the scope is there but the scope isn't wanted by Steven and the devs right now.
most str training doesnt tend to help with drawing a bow it mainly uses the muscles behind your shoulder blade area and basicly doesnt use any arm strength which you typicaly seen as str which works well for lifting thing but not necessarily drawing a bow.
im a stick and never do weights and i can draw a heavy pound bow then 90% of the people i know that went to a gym or lifted weight simply cause drawing a bow uses a muscle that is rarily used when it comes to str related activity.
Have you done archery since childhood? Most longbowmen were hunched and deformed for the perfect amount for 130 pound shots. Mongols however were only required to use 30 to 40 pound shots.
It's more about training with the weapon than the body. Crossbow is more about technique and competence.
I guess I'm coming from this from the perspective of a roleplayer that prioritizes character expression and not a PvXer that prioritizes complex and varying weapon systems for each weapon. I understand where you folks are coming from.
People are coming from a understanding that its alpha and things are added and removed, it is normal for game development. This is something you need to realize, and why i always say there are plenty of elements that are also bad for consumers to experience. They do not care or understand the issues that come with making a game they only want to play it, it's a double-edged sword for getting feedback.
Right, but where is the line drawn? That's my question.
I guess I'm coming from this from the perspective of a roleplayer that prioritizes character expression and not a PvXer that prioritizes complex and varying weapon systems for each weapon. I understand where you folks are coming from.
People are coming from a understanding that its alpha and things are added and removed, it is normal for game development. This is something you need to realize, and why i always say there are plenty of elements that are also bad for consumers to experience. They do not care or understand the issues that come with making a game they only want to play it, it's a double-edged sword for getting feedback.
Right, but where is the line drawn? That's my question.
There isnt a line - not yet, at least.
If there is a line drawn, and it turns out Intrepid would need to cross it in order to release the game, would you want them to cross that line, or to just never release the game?
If your answer is the second of the above, then I have no real comment.
If your answer is the first, then you need to ask yourself why you are even wanting that line drawn in the first place.
I'm curious, what exactly is a potion thrower? I imagine it as a handheld trebuchet inspired device, maybe a modified atlatl with a sling attached to the end?
I always imagine it as a big tube with a load of rotating spoons on the end of it, and as a spoon comes around it picks up the next potion, and as it turns again it flips it out! Very funny, but I'm not sure I'd want to see it in-game.
I guess I'm coming from this from the perspective of a roleplayer that prioritizes character expression and not a PvXer that prioritizes complex and varying weapon systems for each weapon. I understand where you folks are coming from.
People are coming from a understanding that its alpha and things are added and removed, it is normal for game development. This is something you need to realize, and why i always say there are plenty of elements that are also bad for consumers to experience. They do not care or understand the issues that come with making a game they only want to play it, it's a double-edged sword for getting feedback.
Right, but where is the line drawn? That's my question.
If you are asking where do they drawn the line, watching development might be too much for your heart to handle. It will be much better to watching once in a while then every day or month.
You are effectively asking a sculptor why you are removing stone, when do you draw the line on breaking it off. Let the dev's do what they need to do to make the game. Classes could get removed, weapons, anything they are developing the game. Sometimes things can be added that were not planned as well.
So again there is no line to draw this is normal development stuff, hopefully you are starting to understand and look pass things as a consumer. You have no toys given or taken from you as the game quite literarily doesn't exist yet, but you are watching it being made (somewhat) for good and bad before your eyes.
If we take a look at anthem, they added flying in that game not far before it was releasing and also removed it at a point and changed a bunch of stuff. Need to realize alpha is going to be the bulk of development with their most important stuff being made and in fact most things. This isn't like a beta, it is actual development.
I understand what you're saying, but I definitely wouldn't invoke Anthem. That doesn't instill confidence. I just want Ashes to be the best that it can be. You and me want the same thing.
Comments
The point of a crossbow was to allow a less trained man at arms to be effective at range, whereas an archer had to train for years to be effective. That could be a problem if applied to ashes combat system (theoretically) if the crossbow follows its historical use. A build made for tanking or melee dps could use it for a large ranged damage hit, lessening the effectiveness comparitively of building for ranged combat.
Should be added that for "sniping" purposes, the crossbow should never be thought of as that. They are massively more powerful than bows at short range, but the power curve and accuracy drops alot faster than with a bow, so the opposite is more accurate. At least in a historical sense.
A historical crossbow requires an actual mechanism in order to load it. An Archer vs Crossbowman the Archer is going to win. They'd only be affective in a phalanx with a tower shield.
Not so sure that'd work.
The Ranger has exactly the same ranged weapon choices as every other archetype.
This is not WoW, it doesn't need the same weapons as WoW.
maybe they will be added in the future. why are they so important tho? its just a shape/skin/visual thing. crossbow or bow, you are still a ranger
WoW had more weapon choices for a non magical ranged class in 2004 then Ashes has now. I just want Ashes to be the best that it can be. I'm a role player. I want that diversity of appearance.
Maybe they will. Maybe you're right. I just want a large amount of appearances.
They would be adding in an asset that has no value outside of cosmetics only.
Might be a waste of time and resources.
most str training doesnt tend to help with drawing a bow it mainly uses the muscles behind your shoulder blade area and basicly doesnt use any arm strength which you typicaly seen as str which works well for lifting thing but not necessarily drawing a bow.
im a stick and never do weights and i can draw a heavy pound bow then 90% of the people i know that went to a gym or lifted weight simply cause drawing a bow uses a muscle that is rarily used when it comes to str related activity.
People are coming from a understanding that its alpha and things are added and removed, it is normal for game development. This is something you need to realize, and why i always say there are plenty of elements that are also bad for consumers to experience. They do not care or understand the issues that come with making a game they only want to play it, it's a double-edged sword for getting feedback.
Edit: nm looked it up, so its just a gun, and from the looks of it a grenade launcher. Yeah I don't see where that fits in a balanced pvp setting. Knife to a gun fight comes to mind.
It's a fantasy attempt at a M203 (which is the Grandchild of the Blunderbuss).
Have you done archery since childhood? Most longbowmen were hunched and deformed for the perfect amount for 130 pound shots. Mongols however were only required to use 30 to 40 pound shots.
It's more about training with the weapon than the body. Crossbow is more about technique and competence.
Right, but where is the line drawn? That's my question.
If there is a line drawn, and it turns out Intrepid would need to cross it in order to release the game, would you want them to cross that line, or to just never release the game?
If your answer is the second of the above, then I have no real comment.
If your answer is the first, then you need to ask yourself why you are even wanting that line drawn in the first place.
I always imagine it as a big tube with a load of rotating spoons on the end of it, and as a spoon comes around it picks up the next potion, and as it turns again it flips it out! Very funny, but I'm not sure I'd want to see it in-game.
If you are asking where do they drawn the line, watching development might be too much for your heart to handle. It will be much better to watching once in a while then every day or month.
You are effectively asking a sculptor why you are removing stone, when do you draw the line on breaking it off. Let the dev's do what they need to do to make the game. Classes could get removed, weapons, anything they are developing the game. Sometimes things can be added that were not planned as well.
So again there is no line to draw this is normal development stuff, hopefully you are starting to understand and look pass things as a consumer. You have no toys given or taken from you as the game quite literarily doesn't exist yet, but you are watching it being made (somewhat) for good and bad before your eyes.
If we take a look at anthem, they added flying in that game not far before it was releasing and also removed it at a point and changed a bunch of stuff. Need to realize alpha is going to be the bulk of development with their most important stuff being made and in fact most things. This isn't like a beta, it is actual development.