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You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Influencers & Streamers in Ashes of Creation [Server Type Discussion]
Kilion
Member, Alpha Two
Relevant context on servers and the Content Creator Program can be found on the Ashes of Creation Wiki
Edit 1: Since it was broad up multiple times I'll quickly emphasize my point about servers without streamers. I don't think it would be appropriate to "ban" all streamers from playing the game, that would be stupid from a marketing perspective alone. Please reread question 2 to 4 at the end of the post. Since Intrepid already has a software in development to track the use of third party DPS meters, it could also be possible to filter the use of streaming tools. On "private" servers - servers that do not allow streaming - registering one of these tools could lead to being simply logged out and returning to the character window. Again - I'm not hating on streamers, I'm not trying to shove them to the side, my question was: If there were niche servers on which streaming would not be possible - would anyone be interested in that?
I think we can all agree that the experience we will have in Ashes is closely linked to who is populating the server we are playing on. The number of active players, their class choices, their gaming time, gaming attitude and so on will make the development of that server unique.
With that being said, of course there might be a few things to consider that could be deemed "undesirable" or exceptionally desireable, to players as well as the developers. And some of those things could be addressed by having server types. Now, since I linked to the Wiki, I also read that there will be no RP servers and that is not the kind of separate type I want to suggest. My personal concern is about
I get it. It's a social game and a pre established community coming to join in on Ashes is not illegal and that's not what I am concerned about. I welcome social gameplay, but with the size of some of these communities and the reason for them coming to the game being quite different, I personally have 2 major concerns.
As such I would like to relay a few questions to you, dear reader.
Thanks for reading!
Edit 1: Since it was broad up multiple times I'll quickly emphasize my point about servers without streamers. I don't think it would be appropriate to "ban" all streamers from playing the game, that would be stupid from a marketing perspective alone. Please reread question 2 to 4 at the end of the post. Since Intrepid already has a software in development to track the use of third party DPS meters, it could also be possible to filter the use of streaming tools. On "private" servers - servers that do not allow streaming - registering one of these tools could lead to being simply logged out and returning to the character window. Again - I'm not hating on streamers, I'm not trying to shove them to the side, my question was: If there were niche servers on which streaming would not be possible - would anyone be interested in that?
Server population is everything for a social game
I think we can all agree that the experience we will have in Ashes is closely linked to who is populating the server we are playing on. The number of active players, their class choices, their gaming time, gaming attitude and so on will make the development of that server unique.
With that being said, of course there might be a few things to consider that could be deemed "undesirable" or exceptionally desireable, to players as well as the developers. And some of those things could be addressed by having server types. Now, since I linked to the Wiki, I also read that there will be no RP servers and that is not the kind of separate type I want to suggest. My personal concern is about
Influencers & community gameplay
I get it. It's a social game and a pre established community coming to join in on Ashes is not illegal and that's not what I am concerned about. I welcome social gameplay, but with the size of some of these communities and the reason for them coming to the game being quite different, I personally have 2 major concerns.
- Huge communities - Some game streamers have very sizeable followers and them coming to this game on launch could result in servers being completely dominated by one particular fan community. This is not illegal but I think a lot of people would want to be aware of such a thing as it significantly alters their gaming experience. It's about informed choices and I would want to know whether the server I am playing on is one that is populated by streamers and their fans.
- Farming clout - It is fairly obvious that being some sort of influencer means they are not there just to play the game. They are trying to earn money through entertainment which motivates them to participate but also trigger more change and since money is on the table, a good gaming experience of other players might go completely off the list of factors to consider.
As such I would like to relay a few questions to you, dear reader.
- Do you feel concerned about playing on a server with a major portion of the player base being a streamer and their community?
- Would you consider moving to a different server if you knew it had no streamers on it?
- Would having servers that do not allow the use of streaming tools be something you would generally be against?
- Do you think that Ashes of Creation would benefit from having possibly bigger (in max. player numbers) servers dedicated to streamers and their community from a marketing perspective?
Thanks for reading!
The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
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Comments
That would have to happen within the confines of the "code of conduct" in Ashes and it assumes that the remaining players on the server are sufficient in numbers and organization to do so.
I worry that the more common reaction will be abandonment of servers with big influencers to play undisturbed by whatever they are up to to push their views.
Which is why I suggested to prevent this conflict from the beginning and say there are servers where running a stream in the background is allowed, while other servers don't allow that. I think such a detection should be possible as the security system also has to somehow detect other programs and addons running.
And if someone doesn't mind playing with streaming communities on a server or even prefers that because more stuff would be happening where they are, I think marking servers for streamer presence would actually benefit the overall experience of all players.
No crossbows and certainly no guns! >:(
You could never grief me. Your gifs are too funny.
I don't like streamers, but I figure I can live with them just like I can survive with flat-earthers here in rl.
I definitely don't want servers that can't be streamed, but I also got no clue how would you even enforce that only on particular servers. Do you ban anyone who streams that server? Cause imo that's very silly.
As for how I feel about streamer communities as a whole. I see them as just big guilds, except waaaay less coordinated and way lower in skill. The main problem with those communities is obviously their mass exodus once the streamers leave, but there's gonna be an exodus either way so streamer communities ultimately don't matter, as long as Intrepid know how to address exodus in a proper manner.
This happened a couple years ago on FFXIV, and it was pretty tough for people on his server to even get online during primetime, for about a week.
But that's literally the worse case scenario in my mind. One server become critically overpopulated for a week. And with a server cap of 10,000 online concurrent, I don't think many streamers are big enough to cause that scenario. Sucks if it happens, but won't be frequent, and not a big deal in the long-run.
I think people are a lot more worried about how a streamer can control the _flow_ of a server, because of how many people will be following them blindly. They could control entire nodes, ruin economies, over-crowd certain events or quests. Locust metaphors may come to mind.
But I kinda just treat that as another flavor of sandbox content. Like yeah, in this game that attempts to recreate all kinds of political turmoil, there will be some crazy populist factions that come and go. Seems fairly realistic to me. I'd treat it as just another "player-driven story" arc. Maybe I have to take refuge and move to another node, trying to just avoid it all. Maybe I try to fight back and join a Resistance. Maybe the streamer and the community is pretty cool actually, and I can join them for some shenanigans. (After all, new players tend to be more enthusiastic, and it can be fun to help them in their first adventures in a new world.)
Again, the only problem really is if I don't have any of those options because I can't even log into the server. But maybe that's an opportunity to be a tourist for a week and check out other servers.
And realistically speaking it's neither possible nor a good business decision to ban streamers from playing the game how they want. (Scanning people's computers to see what streams they have in the background? Really?)
It would be nice to have a heads-up about what servers the giant streamers are going to be on though. The community team should be capable of communicating with the top few streamers to give players some warning. Even if it's just a Twitter post saying like, "We're welcoming X streamer on server Y in a few days," that would be a good start.
But I don't expect any real restrictions or policing in regards to streamers, aside from the usual "If you're part of our partner program, you have to be a good representative, and not make an ass out of yourself and by extension Intrepid. Otherwise you lose partner priviledges."
why such discrimination?
As for your questions:
Q: Do you feel concerned about playing on a server with a major portion of the player base being a streamer and their community?
A: If the servers can withstand the numbers, Not at all.
Q: Would you consider moving to a different server if you knew it had no streamers on it?
A: Only if the servers they are present can't withstand the numbers.
Q: Would having servers that do not allow the use of streaming tools be something you would generally be against?
A: Definitely would find it quite an unreasonable policy, and would most likely be against it.
Q: Do you think that Ashes of Creation would benefit from having possibly bigger (in max. player numbers) servers dedicated to streamers and their community from a marketing perspective?
A: In general the bigger the server capacity the better as long as the game is designed with such capacity in mind, having an over the intended design capacity can be very prejudicial for a mmorpg.
Aren't we all sinners?
It is possible, you track whether there are any active streaming tools on the account of someone entering a "no streaming" server and if the result is yes, they will be logged out again. And while you could call that a "streamer ban" I don't think it is accurately describing what I am asking. I'm asking whether people would be interested in having 1 or 2 servers - a minority of all servers - with a policy where active streaming tools would lead to a log out. Sure, that sounds not much like "This dude HATES streamers" like it does when we call it "streamer ban" but that's not what I want. There is no ban, there isn't even a policy suggested for the majority - it's all about a niche.
Also, you'd have to constantly check if those streaming programs are running. Also, what about double PC setups, where your gaming PC doesn't have anything stream-related on it. And pretty much every big streamer runs a 2-PC setup, so you wouldn't even prevent the thing you want to prevent (that is huge streamers being limited to only particular servers).
All in all, this is a very silly and unnecessary idea.
Fair enough, thanks!
@JamesSunderland do you think the current server size in general is too little? I know that's a pretty difficult one to answer without having a direct feeling for map size and so on. But I'd be curious to know whether you have a suspicion what might be a "good" amount of active players and maximum players a server could/should hold.
That's again backwards of what I was asking. I'm not asking for some servers where streamers are allowed. I'm asking for some servers without them and whether people deem streamer influence big enough to make that something worth consideration. Even though you answered that second part already.
And the point about privacy is absolutely legit I can see where you are coming from with this.
Is it silly though? I don't think that's a legitimate judgement unless we have solid evidence that the base case I was making was to be fundamentally flawed. Not as serious to you as they might be to me - sure - but silly? Not yet.
I actually do believe the map to be a bit too big,
considering Lineage 2 map was ~300-400km² and servers could hold ~5k-6k players feeling a bit too crowded in hot spots(providing amazing conflicts for said spots) and Ashes is expected to be ~1200km² with servers that can hold ~8k-10k players. so i believe 12K would be fine and 15k-18k would be a bit too crowded in certain areas like in L2.
Aren't we all sinners?
Unfortunately I wasn't around for L2. We might have to consider the percentage of landmass and open waters for both games to make the comparison. Ashes is currently said to have 480 km² landmass and 750km² of open waters. (source)
I considered the whole maps not distinguishing landmass/open waters, Lineage 2 had almost no water content, its maps is around over 70% landmass anyway.
Maybe Archeage would be a better comparison as it has water content, it's full map was ~600km² and its servers capacity varied alot throught the years in a downwards trend From around ~8k during the first launchs to around 2K nowadays i played during both "Eras" during it golden era the whole map was hella populated, nowadays its not even near crowded even in hot spots.
Aren't we all sinners?
And that is why I find this part of your questions silly. Having several "streamer servers" and giving streamers free pass through the queue would accomplish way more than banning people from streaming other servers. Redirect instead of turn away. A small 1-2k streamer would have way less impact on the server than any semi-coordinated guild. And with Ashes being all "hardcore" and pvp-centric (I fucking hope it stays that way) there's gonna be a ton of sweaty guilds that will impact the game's economy waaaaaay more than some random big streamer with a few fanbois running around him.
also, if 10k players go to the same spot to farm something, it doesn't matter if they are the streamer's followers or not. many servers will be full wether streamers play or not.
ashes is designed to distribute players over the map instead of focusing on a few spots. of course, there will be certain areas with more players than others.
forgot pagan, primaveral, monastery and varka. in older chronicles anyways xD
ashes promised low level material to be useful in higher level, so I suspect people will also be spread out farming those as well, maybe converging to a few spots for rare, limited spawn time materials, or bosses.
and we dont know how many parties can open world dungeons in ashes hold
That's what I tried to cover with the fourth question. I guess that's where our takes meet.
Not sure that's how I would describe it - or Intrepid for that matter. PvX sounds to me like this: PvP in this game becomes less relevant without PvE and the PvE becomes less relevant without PvP. They are depending and building on each other.
Good point, I just wonder how ingame focused the conflict would stay with someone who has "external interests" (success of their streaming channel) potentially coming into serious conflict with the other players on that server.
It was interesting to me to learn that concern doesn't seem to be all that high surrounding this topic.
No, because most streamer guilds are going to be disorganized.
No, there are no reasons to run away from non-streamer guilds. If anything streaming guilds will go up in smoke unless they're highly organized.
Yes, I am against specialized treatment.
I do not know yet, because Ashes is a big world, but at it's current population goals is still going to be small.