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On tanks and threat/taunting mechanics for PvP
Pokkitt
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
So in later parts of the Feb dev update, Steven briefly touched on the topic of threat/forced taunt in a PvP setting, and its capacity to be a contentious issue. Obviously this is something that must be given some attention, as a lot of tank players will likely want to perform a tanking function in PvP battles, and scooping up enemy agro/taking the heat, is the core of their class build.
Personally I think there's a very simple, and practical solution here, but obviously that means nothing if it's not also supported by a large number of players, and is a direction that Steven and dev team want to go in.
So with that in mind, I thought I'd explain what at least to me, seems like the best option, and see what others think of it.
So for anyone here who has played SWtOR MMO, this feature won't be new. For the benefit of those who aren't familiar with it, taunts in SWtOR have two different functions, depending on whether they are used on an NPC or another player.
If used on an NPC, it's a straight up forced taunt for 'x' duration.
If however they are in PvP and use a taunt, it functions as a damage debuff, if the target ignores the tank. So if the tank taunts an enemy, they are "taunted" for the same duration as an NPC that would be forced to attack the tank, but for the taunted player, they have a choice. They can target the tank and deal their normal amount of damage, or they can ignore the taunt, targeting other players, but will do so with a 30% penalty to their damage output (until the taunt expires)
Personally I found this to be a great feature, it doesn't interfere with the controls of another player, but it still allows the tank to perform their role of protecting friendly players.
You could easily expand on that concept if it didn't feel like it was impactful enough by tweaking the length of the taunt, the amount of reduced damage the taunted player inflicts on other targets etc, as well as maybe including a snare effect that would either reduce their movement speed, or apply a debuff to their attack speed for the duration of the taunt.
There's another ability that would be a great fit (and is currently used in several other MMO's) which is a 'guard' ability. Where the tank selects one other player and places a guard effect on them. Effectively re-directing 'x' amount of damage received by the guarded player, which is instead dealt to the tank.
Maybe it's just me, but these sort of features seem like the best way to give tanks the ability to still perform the 'tank' role in a PvP setting, without creating a scenario where you start looking at forcing other players to attack a specific target, etc.
Thoughts?
Personally I think there's a very simple, and practical solution here, but obviously that means nothing if it's not also supported by a large number of players, and is a direction that Steven and dev team want to go in.
So with that in mind, I thought I'd explain what at least to me, seems like the best option, and see what others think of it.
So for anyone here who has played SWtOR MMO, this feature won't be new. For the benefit of those who aren't familiar with it, taunts in SWtOR have two different functions, depending on whether they are used on an NPC or another player.
If used on an NPC, it's a straight up forced taunt for 'x' duration.
If however they are in PvP and use a taunt, it functions as a damage debuff, if the target ignores the tank. So if the tank taunts an enemy, they are "taunted" for the same duration as an NPC that would be forced to attack the tank, but for the taunted player, they have a choice. They can target the tank and deal their normal amount of damage, or they can ignore the taunt, targeting other players, but will do so with a 30% penalty to their damage output (until the taunt expires)
Personally I found this to be a great feature, it doesn't interfere with the controls of another player, but it still allows the tank to perform their role of protecting friendly players.
You could easily expand on that concept if it didn't feel like it was impactful enough by tweaking the length of the taunt, the amount of reduced damage the taunted player inflicts on other targets etc, as well as maybe including a snare effect that would either reduce their movement speed, or apply a debuff to their attack speed for the duration of the taunt.
There's another ability that would be a great fit (and is currently used in several other MMO's) which is a 'guard' ability. Where the tank selects one other player and places a guard effect on them. Effectively re-directing 'x' amount of damage received by the guarded player, which is instead dealt to the tank.
Maybe it's just me, but these sort of features seem like the best way to give tanks the ability to still perform the 'tank' role in a PvP setting, without creating a scenario where you start looking at forcing other players to attack a specific target, etc.
Thoughts?
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Comments
Skip to the 1:25:30 mark and listen to what he discusses about taunt, and the need to gather player feedback on topics like forced agro/target switching
Seems like they aren't settled on a way to ensure tanks can perform their primary function in PvP, hence why I think options like those discussed in my original post, should be considered as viable paths towards giving tanks the ability to perform their core class function, without directly interfering with the control options of other players.
True, but we aren't really sure how they'll hold up in Alpha2 and Beta sessions. The tank play we had during previous spot tests and Alpha1 was limited, as we were working with low level characters that got auto scaled for the siege mode.
Given that Steven has made it clear he wants a return to the typical holy trinity, and well defined class roles, I would imagine that proper late game Tanks aren't going to be dishing out heavy dps. I guess we'll have to see how the classes feel when we finally get to try Alpha2 out, but I would imagine they will start to feel a bit more like the class types they are supposed to be.
I believe the taunts will definitely have pvp viability but it's not clear which direction Steven will decide upon - perhaps there will be multiple mechanics dependant on how many taunts the tank will get.
It will be interesting to see how augments affect those core skills. Not to mention the effects that picking your secondary archetype will have on the abilities earned through your primary archetype. I suspect there will be a tidal wave of debates and theory crafting once we do get our hands on Alpha2 and can see the wider scope of what is possible with class builds and weapon combinations.
I can't imagine a lot of traditional MMO players wanting an MMO that plays like a moba game. I know I certainly wouldn't.
using it at the right time on the right enemy was key in pvp
In Guild Wars 2, taunt is both a duration based condition and a crowd control, which means it can be removed by both a condition removal or a stunbreak. It causes the affected target to run at their opponent and use basic attacks.
Forced target switching can also be quite good. If you're playing a tank and the enemy ranger starts casting an important attack on your allies, you can force the target switch at the end of the cast so the enemy doesn't have time to retarget the right person before firing.