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Understanding How Secondary Archetypes Affect Classes

GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
As we know, a mix of your primary and secondary archetype determine your class. My current understanding is the secondary archetype will mostly affect the visual and aesthetic flavor of the primary archetype and not have a significant mechanical impact on how the class plays. Is this true? Do we not know? If this isn’t true, won’t people just meta this?

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It has been stated you can change melee skills to ranged skills and vice versa dependant on augmentation.
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  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Okay, so my concern knowing that is people are just going to find what’s most optimized and anyone who doesn’t stick to that mold is going to be ostracized. Meta will determine everything. So, all this work that is being done on 64 different classes will be all for naught when people find the 5 viable ones. What would be a good way to stop that from happening?
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Galvyr wrote: »
    Okay, so my concern knowing is people are just to find what’s most optimized and anyone who doesn’t stick to that mold is going to be ostracized. Meta will determine everything. So, all this work that is being done on 64 different classes will be all for naught when people find the 5 viable ones. What would be a good way to stop that from happening?
    There is no way to stop that because it doesn't come from the design, it comes from people. Intrepid could add all kinds of horizontal variety to the builds, but people will still find some arbitrary meta and force it onto others.
  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ah, human nature.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    That's why I hate people, everybody else has to die in the game
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    nothing wrong with a meta, and if you don't want to follow it, you don't have to.
  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You’re so right about not following it
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Galvyr wrote: »
    My current understanding is the secondary archetype will mostly affect the visual and aesthetic flavor of the primary archetype and not have a significant mechanical impact on how the class plays. Is this true?

    I don't think your question was answered yet, @Galvyr, but according to Steven that is true, yes.

    The secondary archetypes merely add "flavor".

    We haven't seen all the classes in a livestream yet.

    NiKr is right, though. While some classes may be "meta", we can hope that all 64 classes are at least "viable" in the vast majority of Ashes content.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Galvyr wrote: »
    Okay, so my concern knowing that is people are just going to find what’s most optimized and anyone who doesn’t stick to that mold is going to be ostracized. Meta will determine everything. So, all this work that is being done on 64 different classes will be all for naught when people find the 5 viable ones. What would be a good way to stop that from happening?

    Soft metas will always exist.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    I don't share the concern at all. I see enough features for horizontal changes present to break a "meta" that is establishing.

    But sure, if you think that Intrepid is unable to make balanced augmentations, then you have to worry about some augment being better than all others and a Meta establishing.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Galvyr wrote: »
    My current understanding is the secondary archetype will mostly affect the visual and aesthetic flavor of the primary archetype and not have a significant mechanical impact on how the class plays. Is this true?

    "Augments to primary skills can fundamentally change the way the ability works - adapting what the ability once did to incorporate the identity of the secondary archetype/class.[13]"

    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    So flavor or fundamental change?
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    I think wizard as a secondary class, can add elemental damage to abilites.

    A couple of examples, are for fighter, where rogue, can add stealth to their charge ability. But wizard can add teleport
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    Be sure to check out what has been said regarding classes here, on the wiki! https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

    If you have a question that doesn't have an answer on the wiki, make sure to bring it to the next Q&A ;)
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  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Thanks Vaknar!
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Galvyr wrote: »
    As we know, a mix of your primary and secondary archetype determine your class. My current understanding is the secondary archetype will mostly affect the visual and aesthetic flavor of the primary archetype and not have a significant mechanical impact on how the class plays. Is this true? Do we not know? If this isn’t true, won’t people just meta this?

    I did a huge post a little over a year ago about secondary archetypes and wondering how much they can change the primary.
    The punch line is we don't have enough info yet.

    Some quotes kind of make it seem like secondary choices will just effect flavor or add secondary effects to your primary abilities.
    Some make it sound like applying certain augments can completely change a primary abilities.

    I've asked multiple times for Q&As for more info, but kept getting the "we will learn more in the future" so I'm just waiting for when they finally do a Livestream on secondary archetypes which they are only half way through the primary showcases.
  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This is truly a mystery then.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Yeah, I mean, they've not even created all the archetypes yet, so I wouldn't expect anything for a while.

    BARD FTW!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    toot-bard.gif
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Galvyr wrote: »
    This is truly a mystery then.

    One of the smaller details I'm curious about is whether the secondary archetype choice will change the passive skills available to put points into or whether those are only determined by your primary choice.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Galvyr wrote: »
    This is truly a mystery then.

    One of the smaller details I'm curious about is whether the secondary archetype choice will change the passive skills available to put points into or whether those are only determined by your primary choice.

    This is fairly important to know for me too, but probably not defined enough yet that it would get anything other than the usual response, if asked in Q&A.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Galvyr wrote: »
    This is truly a mystery then.

    One of the smaller details I'm curious about is whether the secondary archetype choice will change the passive skills available to put points into or whether those are only determined by your primary choice.

    This is fairly important to know for me too, but probably not defined enough yet that it would get anything other than the usual response, if asked in Q&A.

    Yup
    That's exactly what I got.
    Probably ask again next Q&A seeing as it has been quite a while.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    It's not a super-mystery - it really just depends on what you mean by "flavor".
    Augments significantly change the Active Skills. It's not simply a visual cosmetic change.

    Expect augments to be in-between mere visual changes and actual new Active Skills.
    Expect Paladin healing augments from the Life School to do some healing on top of whatever else the Active Skill it's attached to does.
    Don't expect those Paladin Augments to heal as well as a Primary Archetype Cleric's Active SKills.
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