There is a French MMO, called Wakfu, that has politics, each faction has a governor. And there was a faction that used to have the governor be the top 1 on the PvP leaderboard. It's super cool and all, but this was highly abused, many people just got free points by winning against friends or their own second account, this faction was since removed altogether. This game also used to have open world pvp with ranking attached, but they removed it in favor of PvX arenas, making it extra easy to PvE grind your way to the top of the leaderboard. It was even possible to have people carry you to top 1 while being naked and never winning a single fight against an other player.
I like the idea of a champion arena fighting, for multiple reasons.
1) It's a lot easier to balance. Classes aren't balanced around 1v1 PvP. It's a lot simpler to just have this combat mode be its own thing with its own balance. Otherwise some classes (probably support or tank roles) might have a really hard time.
2) On paper it sounds a lot harder to abuse.
3) It values skill more over raw time investment, by having a more level playing field
4) It makes for a good recurrent event to look forward to, with stakes.
I think a good PvP player should be able to come on top consistently by raw skill and knowledge. And I like to have an objective that doesn't rely too much on pure grind, there are already Divine nodes for that, from my understanding. Realistically, I think that not adding extra external power modifiers to the champions will favor actual PvP players, because it will not be as easy to just "outgear" your opponent.
There is no reason to inherently assume a mayor will lead a siege defense.
People keep bringing this up, but the thing is that the mayor will have to setup the node, bring the guild leaders together, raise citizens awareness, will have to engage in diplomacy with other nodes, will have to work with the caravans to ensure their success, etc
Specially knowing how to evaluate your node's pvp capacity and evaluating the other node's pvp capacity is a top player skill, because there are not graphs showing performance, no nothing, the mayor will have to run all simulations in his head and evaluate if the node can do this or see what he can do to help it's guilds.
It's the mayor who will put together all that and talk to his citizens, he doesn't have to fight at all.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
People keep bringing this up, but the thing is that the mayor will have to setup the node, bring the guild leaders together, raise citizens awareness, will have to engage in diplomacy with other nodes, will have to work with the caravans to ensure their success, etc
I partially agree with that. The mayor has tools to setup the node, prepare the defenses, establish trades routes etc.. But when it comes to bringing the guild leaders together, raising citizens awareness, or engaging in diplomacy, these are all tasks that you could assume a good mayor would undertake, but that are not actually on the job description. These tasks could all be done by members of a patron guild of the node, or the chief bounty hunter for instance, especially when it comes to actual siege planning and getting people to show up.
It's the mayor who will put together all that and talk to his citizens, he doesn't have to fight at all.
I see on the wiki that the mayor possesses exclusive abilities and stats during sieges and events, so you'd probably want them to be online to at least actually take part in it and fight. But no reason to believe they would need to plan anything or "lead", unless the abilities are something like putting pings on the map for the defenders to see or whatever
Anyway, I don't think there will be a clearly defined set of tasks a mayor has to do, people will probably delegate and have their own ways of doing things on a case by case basis, even for things like taxes, logistics etc, you can have someone else do all the work to just tell the mayor what values input and what button to click. Everything you just described would apply to all mayors anyway, including non-military ones, so this has virtually nothing to do with the specificities of the mayor selection process for military nodes.
At the moment the idea is on: PvP score feeds the gladiator for the arena
Anyway, people will always be like "oh, but then people will just this or just that", it's always "just" no matter what is said
So you want a tournament where grinding more PvP during the month gives you a better Gladiator? That's ok I guess, as long as there's a hard cap for Gladiator improvements that's less than a ridiculous time sink per month. I was assuming that you would work the Gladiator improvements over the course of the character and not have to do it every month. Then once you maxed out your Gladiator you'd just focus on monthly score
Mayors of military nodes are chosen from citizens through last man standing (gladiatorial arena style) combat.[42][45][46]
I do like gladiator arenas and free for all, but hear me out, there are many PvP activities where the citizens performance can be tracked among all that people in the ranking.
It just makes sense putting together how the candidate is ranked on every ladder. Who cares if the guy won a free-for-all arena? This can also be manipulated as hell, manipulation could be fun sometimes, but this sucks.
Hands down, the best choice is seeing who has best perfomance overall, this is the guy who should be mayor.
no really. That is your oppinion. I have played on a pvp server in the past. It is never a fair fight.
That's just your opinion, before giging your opinion you FAILED in understanding the military election and then failed in reading this thread. Must suck failing at everything.
People will work on their champion doing quests along the month and yata yata, then the champion will come in a free-for-all event.
Fuck that, just make mayor whoever is the month's real PvPer. The PvP ranking is in the scope already, just use this and trash this bullshipt champion idea.
your pathetic and toxic. Not going to take you serious. You are acting like a child
Mayors of military nodes are chosen from citizens through last man standing (gladiatorial arena style) combat.[42][45][46]
I do like gladiator arenas and free for all, but hear me out, there are many PvP activities where the citizens performance can be tracked among all that people in the ranking.
It just makes sense putting together how the candidate is ranked on every ladder. Who cares if the guy won a free-for-all arena? This can also be manipulated as hell, manipulation could be fun sometimes, but this sucks.
Hands down, the best choice is seeing who has best perfomance overall, this is the guy who should be mayor.
no really. That is your oppinion. I have played on a pvp server in the past. It is never a fair fight.
That's just your opinion, before giging your opinion you FAILED in understanding the military election and then failed in reading this thread. Must suck failing at everything.
People will work on their champion doing quests along the month and yata yata, then the champion will come in a free-for-all event.
Fuck that, just make mayor whoever is the month's real PvPer. The PvP ranking is in the scope already, just use this and trash this bullshipt champion idea.
I didn't fail to understand it. I just didn't read it all. That is my fault, i admit that. But i took it from the wiki.
I prefer the champion arena which we got added many months back.
I am not entirely against the champion, I'm just 90% against it, but this is mostly because how the champion is prepared through useless quests that have nothing to do with the game's content.
It's just stupid, if the champion system is kept then the champion should be fed with points comming from the PvP rankings. This is sensible.
Performing quests to feed the champion is the same as cheating, UNLESS THE QUESTS ARE ABOUT MURDERING EVERYBODY ELSE in all sanctioned PvP activites... which leads to feeding the PvP ranking.
I agree I would rather have someone who involves themselves in wars, caravans and sieges. I would also assume that the players who do better than other will be more likely to become Mayor. Considering they would be having more impact than Arena fights I feel like that's only fair. I'm more of a PvE player myself but I don't think arenas should solely be the way you are elected.
The actual system's proposal sucks, I will list the three problems in the current mayor election in the military node;
Problem #1: Along the month people will do quests and errands to improve their their champions, so these people won't be running their dungeons, fighting the wars, harvesting, etc. These quests are unrelated to other activities in the game
Problem #2: People who will be working in the champion evolution will be doing stuff that doesn't help you in becomming a better mayor, instead you should be preparing yourself against the node's enemies and competitors instead of running errands for this champion that is good for nothing other than in the election day
Problem #3: Players can fix results among themselves and simply ruin all the work you put into your champion over the month. Such schemes belong to the economic node, not to the military node
In the military node, the mayor should be someone battle-hardened, who has fought on all fronts and knows well all PvP systems and regional threats.
Your assumng that the quests related to upgrading your gladiator avatar, has nothing to do with pvp, Majoral duties, or node related content. Why is that? It stands to reason that the quests would be related to pvp, node development or mayoral tasks.
I can forsee the quests beeing:
Kill x amount of players
kill x amount of players during a nodesiege
Kill x amount of players in your nodes ZoI
Guard x amount of caravans
Attack x amount of caravans
Participate in castle siege
This way you have to spend most of your time pvping in a way relevant to your node, instead of pvp stat farming, to get your gear upgrades, and in addition show your individual skill and commitment.
the system that you describe isvery similar to the classic wow pvp system. A system where skill in pvp is irrelevant, only your skill in coordinating rank positions, and online time .
@Kesthely those quests aren't PvX, Intrepid seems to push people into a balance of PvX, do PvE if you want PvP thing
This is why I simply started shooting in all directions. Having PvP quests would be slightly better, but it still suck. Also, if there's dailies it would be extremely disgusting
Quests suck because you would have to stop what you are doing and go do something else. I think tracking PvP activity somehow is way better, farming your PvP score where you can farm your PvP score is better
Not always you will have a node to siege
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
if PvP actions results in points somehow, then you can fight a couple huge wars along the weeks, your hands would be full and you would farm such points
if PvP actions results in points somehow, then you can fight a couple huge wars along the weeks, your hands would be full and you would farm such points
you wouldn't have to stop your wars
Yes, the point is, you wouldn't need to stop what you're doing just to complete these bureaucratic tasks. If your train is already going at full speed, why stop and hop in another train and resume?
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
There is no reason to inherently assume a mayor will lead a siege defense.
People keep bringing this up, but the thing is that the mayor will have to setup the node, bring the guild leaders together, raise citizens awareness, will have to engage in diplomacy with other nodes, will have to work with the caravans to ensure their success, etc.
No, the mayor doesn't need to do any of this.
Since it is unusual for someone good at PvP to also be good at diplomacy (there are exceptions, but they are rare), it is actually best if the mayor DOESN'T do all of these things. They should only do any of these things if they are the best at those specific tasks.
A mayor absolutely could do these things, but there is no reason nor assumption that it has to be them that does them.
@Kesthely those quests aren't PvX, Intrepid seems to push people into a balance of PvX, do PvE if you want PvP thing
This is why I simply started shooting in all directions. Having PvP quests would be slightly better, but it still suck. Also, if there's dailies it would be extremely disgusting
Quests suck because you would have to stop what you are doing and go do something else. I think tracking PvP activity somehow is way better, farming your PvP score where you can farm your PvP score is better
Not always you will have a node to siege
I don't think you understand what PvX means, it does NOT mean forced pvp or pve, it means that the game is designed that both pve and pvp are interwoven. City development (PvE activity) is interwoven with city destruction (PvP activity) It stands to reason that different node types require different activities to progress the node further. Military nodes have bounty system wich will grant it additional xp, that other nodes don't get, economic nodes get auctionhouses that other nodes don't get etc. One node type will favor pve more, the other pvp.
And why would having quests to upgrade your gladiator to have more chance to become a mayor suck? Becoming a mayor is a concious choice, I don't want someone who only pvp's and not interact with the rest of the node to suddenly become the mayor because hes the best pvp er. I want that pvp er that is actively defending the node, that has a vision of wich direction to go to, that wants to progress and win on a node basis. That player is different, it will have to do stuff, that not only benefits him, but the node in general. Node orientated quests, be it pvp or pve, to upgrade your gladiator help with that. Remember, as with all quests, you get to decide to accept a certain one or not.
What you want is a title to show your accomplishments on that month's pvp, what the citizens want is someone that takes the mayor job serious and dedicates his or her time to it.
There is no reason to inherently assume a mayor will lead a siege defense.
People keep bringing this up, but the thing is that the mayor will have to setup the node, bring the guild leaders together, raise citizens awareness, will have to engage in diplomacy with other nodes, will have to work with the caravans to ensure their success, etc
Specially knowing how to evaluate your node's pvp capacity and evaluating the other node's pvp capacity is a top player skill, because there are not graphs showing performance, no nothing, the mayor will have to run all simulations in his head and evaluate if the node can do this or see what he can do to help it's guilds.
It's the mayor who will put together all that and talk to his citizens, he doesn't have to fight at all.
Generals are not city planners, they work with them. That’s why they are all Administrative staff.
@Kesthely quests suck because you have to pull yourself out of what you are doing and go do something else and grind that.
How do you even know what Iwant or other citizens want, are you some kind of mind reader? Because you are speaking for all players, maybe you can read the minds of all players of the future, I would love have such supernatural power.
The best leaders I had in other games where purely gankers and scammers, all carebear leaders were garbage. People who see the game from a militaristic and violent approach take the stuff seirously, including taking care of the player's structures.
I want that pvp er that is actively defending the node, that has a vision of wich direction to go to, that wants to progress and win on a node basis
But there is no quest in the world that can attest this.
Not only that, there is also a deficit about sitting in the node for the entire month doing quests, this is absolutely a bad idea, I think it's better if candidate travels and see what other nodes are doing.
A travelling PvP spy who saw and lived everything would be much better as mayor than someone who sat at the node and ran quests to help the node.
I am not 100% against quests tough, but when you bring quests to the table, there is a risk of becomming bad real fast.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
@Kesthely quests suck because you have to pull yourself out of what you are doing and go do something else and grind that.
How do you even know what Iwant or other citizens want, are you some kind of mind reader? Because you are speaking for all players, maybe you can read the minds of all players of the future, I would love have such supernatural power.
Since many MMO's release numbers of things their players get up to in game - including quests - it isnt hard to come to the conclusion that most MMO players (when looking at the population as a whole) really enjoy quests.
In fact, you can look through achievements on many games and gain an understanding of how many people enjoy quests.
So, my take on this is that the "superpower" you are claiming Kesthley has is in fact simply the ability to read.
@Kesthely quests suck because you have to pull yourself out of what you are doing and go do something else and grind that.
How do you even know what Iwant or other citizens want, are you some kind of mind reader? Because you are speaking for all players, maybe you can read the minds of all players of the future, I would love have such supernatural power.
Since many MMO's release numbers of things their players get up to in game - including quests - it isnt hard to come to the conclusion that most MMO players (when looking at the population as a whole) really enjoy quests.
In fact, you can look through achievements on many games and gain an understanding of how many people enjoy quests.
So, my take on this is that the "superpower" you are claiming Kesthley has is in fact simply the ability to read.
This comment is misleading, players craving to follow quests is mind-boggling.
Players are forced to follow a linear path in games by running quests, it is poor game design. Quests serve as a way for developers to provide structure and progression to the game, and players can not choose to deviate from them if they wish. If a player deviates from this, then there's no progression.
Additionally, it is unfair to dismiss players' motivations for completing quests!!!
I typically do not respond to comments like this, but I felt the need to address it since such comment falls way below the average around here.
The most ran quest in history is "kill 10 boars", but it does not necessarily indicate that players have a strong desire for quests or that quests are an effective game design element.
@Noaani that's for you, maybe you should take a break from forums and from commenting until you figure it out why Southpark even made an entire episode about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CKOYmBc-ow
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
This comment is misleading, players craving to follow quests is mind-boggling.
And yet this very activity is what the RPG genre is made up of.
What most players want - at least at times - is a defined activity. Quests offer that.
Players are forced to follow a linear path in games by running quests, it is poor game design. Quests serve as a way for developers to provide structure and progression to the game, and players can not choose to deviate from them if they wish.
I mean, you were correct right up until the last part of this.
Quests do indeed allow developers to provide structure and progression to the game - as well as storytelling.
However, players absolutely can opt to deviate from them if they wish.
In Archeage, doing the quest line was not even close to the fastest way to level. Yet many people still ran them. They ran them because those quests that made up the main quest line were - to a degree - enjoyable.
Now, if you want to say you are against quests that see the developers force players to run them in order to progress in any kind of reasonable speed, then I'd agree with you.
However, that isn't what you are saying.
What you are saying is that you don't like quests, and so you erroneously assume other gamers don't like them either and only do them because they feel they have to do them. Again, this is wrong. If you understand a game you can see that many players run quests that are not for progression, not for profit, but are simply in the game for enjoyment. Many games have quests that fit in to this category, and in some cases they have their own achievement.
When 90% of players that hit the level cap of a game run a quest that only exists for the enjoyment of running that quest, then you have to assume many players of that game enjoy running quests.
Comments
I like the idea of a champion arena fighting, for multiple reasons.
1) It's a lot easier to balance. Classes aren't balanced around 1v1 PvP. It's a lot simpler to just have this combat mode be its own thing with its own balance. Otherwise some classes (probably support or tank roles) might have a really hard time.
2) On paper it sounds a lot harder to abuse.
3) It values skill more over raw time investment, by having a more level playing field
4) It makes for a good recurrent event to look forward to, with stakes.
I think a good PvP player should be able to come on top consistently by raw skill and knowledge. And I like to have an objective that doesn't rely too much on pure grind, there are already Divine nodes for that, from my understanding. Realistically, I think that not adding extra external power modifiers to the champions will favor actual PvP players, because it will not be as easy to just "outgear" your opponent.
People keep bringing this up, but the thing is that the mayor will have to setup the node, bring the guild leaders together, raise citizens awareness, will have to engage in diplomacy with other nodes, will have to work with the caravans to ensure their success, etc
Specially knowing how to evaluate your node's pvp capacity and evaluating the other node's pvp capacity is a top player skill, because there are not graphs showing performance, no nothing, the mayor will have to run all simulations in his head and evaluate if the node can do this or see what he can do to help it's guilds.
It's the mayor who will put together all that and talk to his citizens, he doesn't have to fight at all.
I partially agree with that. The mayor has tools to setup the node, prepare the defenses, establish trades routes etc.. But when it comes to bringing the guild leaders together, raising citizens awareness, or engaging in diplomacy, these are all tasks that you could assume a good mayor would undertake, but that are not actually on the job description. These tasks could all be done by members of a patron guild of the node, or the chief bounty hunter for instance, especially when it comes to actual siege planning and getting people to show up.
I see on the wiki that the mayor possesses exclusive abilities and stats during sieges and events, so you'd probably want them to be online to at least actually take part in it and fight. But no reason to believe they would need to plan anything or "lead", unless the abilities are something like putting pings on the map for the defenders to see or whatever
Anyway, I don't think there will be a clearly defined set of tasks a mayor has to do, people will probably delegate and have their own ways of doing things on a case by case basis, even for things like taxes, logistics etc, you can have someone else do all the work to just tell the mayor what values input and what button to click. Everything you just described would apply to all mayors anyway, including non-military ones, so this has virtually nothing to do with the specificities of the mayor selection process for military nodes.
So you want a tournament where grinding more PvP during the month gives you a better Gladiator? That's ok I guess, as long as there's a hard cap for Gladiator improvements that's less than a ridiculous time sink per month. I was assuming that you would work the Gladiator improvements over the course of the character and not have to do it every month. Then once you maxed out your Gladiator you'd just focus on monthly score
There's advantages for either method
your pathetic and toxic. Not going to take you serious. You are acting like a child
I didn't fail to understand it. I just didn't read it all. That is my fault, i admit that. But i took it from the wiki.
I'm sorry, I completely lashed out on you because I realized you didn't read or you were just trying to attack.
So, yo didn't read the wiki and didn't read the posts, it's fine then!
I didn't read all of it. But i see you are still being toxic. No point in debatingt with you. You aren't mature enough for it
I agree I would rather have someone who involves themselves in wars, caravans and sieges. I would also assume that the players who do better than other will be more likely to become Mayor. Considering they would be having more impact than Arena fights I feel like that's only fair. I'm more of a PvE player myself but I don't think arenas should solely be the way you are elected.
Your assumng that the quests related to upgrading your gladiator avatar, has nothing to do with pvp, Majoral duties, or node related content. Why is that? It stands to reason that the quests would be related to pvp, node development or mayoral tasks.
I can forsee the quests beeing:
Kill x amount of players
kill x amount of players during a nodesiege
Kill x amount of players in your nodes ZoI
Guard x amount of caravans
Attack x amount of caravans
Participate in castle siege
This way you have to spend most of your time pvping in a way relevant to your node, instead of pvp stat farming, to get your gear upgrades, and in addition show your individual skill and commitment.
the system that you describe isvery similar to the classic wow pvp system. A system where skill in pvp is irrelevant, only your skill in coordinating rank positions, and online time .
This is why I simply started shooting in all directions. Having PvP quests would be slightly better, but it still suck. Also, if there's dailies it would be extremely disgusting
Quests suck because you would have to stop what you are doing and go do something else. I think tracking PvP activity somehow is way better, farming your PvP score where you can farm your PvP score is better
Not always you will have a node to siege
if PvP actions results in points somehow, then you can fight a couple huge wars along the weeks, your hands would be full and you would farm such points
you wouldn't have to stop your wars
Yes, the point is, you wouldn't need to stop what you're doing just to complete these bureaucratic tasks. If your train is already going at full speed, why stop and hop in another train and resume?
Plus the monthly PvP can be easily cheesed with friends. (so can the tourney, but much less easier)
Since it is unusual for someone good at PvP to also be good at diplomacy (there are exceptions, but they are rare), it is actually best if the mayor DOESN'T do all of these things. They should only do any of these things if they are the best at those specific tasks.
A mayor absolutely could do these things, but there is no reason nor assumption that it has to be them that does them.
I don't think you understand what PvX means, it does NOT mean forced pvp or pve, it means that the game is designed that both pve and pvp are interwoven. City development (PvE activity) is interwoven with city destruction (PvP activity) It stands to reason that different node types require different activities to progress the node further. Military nodes have bounty system wich will grant it additional xp, that other nodes don't get, economic nodes get auctionhouses that other nodes don't get etc. One node type will favor pve more, the other pvp.
And why would having quests to upgrade your gladiator to have more chance to become a mayor suck? Becoming a mayor is a concious choice, I don't want someone who only pvp's and not interact with the rest of the node to suddenly become the mayor because hes the best pvp er. I want that pvp er that is actively defending the node, that has a vision of wich direction to go to, that wants to progress and win on a node basis. That player is different, it will have to do stuff, that not only benefits him, but the node in general. Node orientated quests, be it pvp or pve, to upgrade your gladiator help with that. Remember, as with all quests, you get to decide to accept a certain one or not.
What you want is a title to show your accomplishments on that month's pvp, what the citizens want is someone that takes the mayor job serious and dedicates his or her time to it.
Generals are not city planners, they work with them. That’s why they are all Administrative staff.
How do you even know what Iwant or other citizens want, are you some kind of mind reader? Because you are speaking for all players, maybe you can read the minds of all players of the future, I would love have such supernatural power.
The best leaders I had in other games where purely gankers and scammers, all carebear leaders were garbage. People who see the game from a militaristic and violent approach take the stuff seirously, including taking care of the player's structures.
But there is no quest in the world that can attest this.
Not only that, there is also a deficit about sitting in the node for the entire month doing quests, this is absolutely a bad idea, I think it's better if candidate travels and see what other nodes are doing.
A travelling PvP spy who saw and lived everything would be much better as mayor than someone who sat at the node and ran quests to help the node.
I am not 100% against quests tough, but when you bring quests to the table, there is a risk of becomming bad real fast.
Since many MMO's release numbers of things their players get up to in game - including quests - it isnt hard to come to the conclusion that most MMO players (when looking at the population as a whole) really enjoy quests.
In fact, you can look through achievements on many games and gain an understanding of how many people enjoy quests.
So, my take on this is that the "superpower" you are claiming Kesthley has is in fact simply the ability to read.
This comment is misleading, players craving to follow quests is mind-boggling.
Players are forced to follow a linear path in games by running quests, it is poor game design. Quests serve as a way for developers to provide structure and progression to the game, and players can not choose to deviate from them if they wish. If a player deviates from this, then there's no progression.
Additionally, it is unfair to dismiss players' motivations for completing quests!!!
I typically do not respond to comments like this, but I felt the need to address it since such comment falls way below the average around here.
The most ran quest in history is "kill 10 boars", but it does not necessarily indicate that players have a strong desire for quests or that quests are an effective game design element.
@Noaani that's for you, maybe you should take a break from forums and from commenting until you figure it out why Southpark even made an entire episode about this:
What most players want - at least at times - is a defined activity. Quests offer that.
I mean, you were correct right up until the last part of this.
Quests do indeed allow developers to provide structure and progression to the game - as well as storytelling.
However, players absolutely can opt to deviate from them if they wish.
In Archeage, doing the quest line was not even close to the fastest way to level. Yet many people still ran them. They ran them because those quests that made up the main quest line were - to a degree - enjoyable.
Now, if you want to say you are against quests that see the developers force players to run them in order to progress in any kind of reasonable speed, then I'd agree with you.
However, that isn't what you are saying.
What you are saying is that you don't like quests, and so you erroneously assume other gamers don't like them either and only do them because they feel they have to do them. Again, this is wrong. If you understand a game you can see that many players run quests that are not for progression, not for profit, but are simply in the game for enjoyment. Many games have quests that fit in to this category, and in some cases they have their own achievement.
When 90% of players that hit the level cap of a game run a quest that only exists for the enjoyment of running that quest, then you have to assume many players of that game enjoy running quests.
Let's get this hotter still...
No one has mentioned yet that mayors get to have FLYING MOUNTS !!