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Look for the node-helpers – a parallel levelling system.
Nerror
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
TL;DR: As players help levelling up nodes, they will increase their node-helper levels which provide permanent bonuses for their characters. These bonuses could be reduced costs for purchasing housing, upgrades on freeholds and reduced monthly upkeep, for example.
Premise
Losing a home node isn’t going to be fun for most players, especially not if you’ve spent months helping to build it up to be your dream node with your dream house. I feel confident in postulating that some people might quit the game over it in the heat of the moment, especially without mitigating circumstances. I don’t want to see disillusioned guild members leave the game, and in general MMOs live and die by the activity of the player base and their social bonds. The goal of this suggestion is mainly to mitigate the feeling of loss after a node is destroyed and increasing player retention in the aftermath.
Core idea
By giving the players permanent bonuses for helping nodes grow, I think the sting of loss will be mitigated, because they won’t be standing there with absolutely nothing to show for the potentially hundreds of hours of work they’ve put into levelling a node, after a successful siege takes it down.
The idea is to introduce one more parallel, or horizontal if you prefer, levelling system to the game that keeps track of the character’s overall contribution to node growth. The higher the level, the better the bonuses.
The bonuses could be reduced costs for purchasing housing, upgrades on freeholds and reduced monthly upkeep. Things that will help reduce the cost of rebuilding their home and freehold in a new node, as well as provide long term benefits. Maybe even give access to a few snazzy cosmetics, like furniture or a building skin or something at the higher levels. And titles of course.
Pretty much everything that contributes to node growth should give node-helper XP, including but not limited to killing mobs in the area, gathering and crafting, donating materials for node-buildings, and doing those node-quests that were mentioned for becoming mayor of divine nodes, that contribute to the node in general.
Citizenship of a node should act as a multiplier for the node-helper XP gained in the area, so players are heavily incentivized to put most of their efforts into their home node. Double or triple node-helper XP for example. In other words, helping a random node you pass by will be giving little node-helper XP in comparison, but not nothing.
Other thoughts
This idea isn’t meant to stand alone of course, but in combination with other things we know - like how the freeholds will be bundled up in a blueprint after they are destroyed, and how all the furniture and such will be mailed to you after a successful siege - I think my idea will reduce the sting of loss a little, because rebuilding your home will be a bit easier/cheaper as time goes on. Specifically for the freehold buildings, the cost reduction could translate into less materials to rebuild your tier 3 smelter, for example.
I also really love parallel levelling systems, and never-ending growth of my characters. Even 5-10 years down the line, I don’t want to feel like the only way I can progress my characters are through better gear or waiting for an expansion that can increase my adventuring level cap.
I’m not dead set on the name “node-helper” or anything, but it gets the point across.
This doesn't need to be in the game at release, but if they decide to add it later on, I hope they at least prepare for it so the node-helper XP can be added retroactively.
Premise
Losing a home node isn’t going to be fun for most players, especially not if you’ve spent months helping to build it up to be your dream node with your dream house. I feel confident in postulating that some people might quit the game over it in the heat of the moment, especially without mitigating circumstances. I don’t want to see disillusioned guild members leave the game, and in general MMOs live and die by the activity of the player base and their social bonds. The goal of this suggestion is mainly to mitigate the feeling of loss after a node is destroyed and increasing player retention in the aftermath.
Core idea
By giving the players permanent bonuses for helping nodes grow, I think the sting of loss will be mitigated, because they won’t be standing there with absolutely nothing to show for the potentially hundreds of hours of work they’ve put into levelling a node, after a successful siege takes it down.
The idea is to introduce one more parallel, or horizontal if you prefer, levelling system to the game that keeps track of the character’s overall contribution to node growth. The higher the level, the better the bonuses.
The bonuses could be reduced costs for purchasing housing, upgrades on freeholds and reduced monthly upkeep. Things that will help reduce the cost of rebuilding their home and freehold in a new node, as well as provide long term benefits. Maybe even give access to a few snazzy cosmetics, like furniture or a building skin or something at the higher levels. And titles of course.
Pretty much everything that contributes to node growth should give node-helper XP, including but not limited to killing mobs in the area, gathering and crafting, donating materials for node-buildings, and doing those node-quests that were mentioned for becoming mayor of divine nodes, that contribute to the node in general.
Citizenship of a node should act as a multiplier for the node-helper XP gained in the area, so players are heavily incentivized to put most of their efforts into their home node. Double or triple node-helper XP for example. In other words, helping a random node you pass by will be giving little node-helper XP in comparison, but not nothing.
Other thoughts
This idea isn’t meant to stand alone of course, but in combination with other things we know - like how the freeholds will be bundled up in a blueprint after they are destroyed, and how all the furniture and such will be mailed to you after a successful siege - I think my idea will reduce the sting of loss a little, because rebuilding your home will be a bit easier/cheaper as time goes on. Specifically for the freehold buildings, the cost reduction could translate into less materials to rebuild your tier 3 smelter, for example.
I also really love parallel levelling systems, and never-ending growth of my characters. Even 5-10 years down the line, I don’t want to feel like the only way I can progress my characters are through better gear or waiting for an expansion that can increase my adventuring level cap.
I’m not dead set on the name “node-helper” or anything, but it gets the point across.
This doesn't need to be in the game at release, but if they decide to add it later on, I hope they at least prepare for it so the node-helper XP can be added retroactively.
3
Comments
Destroy your enemy's structures enough times and some of your members will even join your enemies. Maybe the node has to die and a better node arise.
There's also all the nodes within your vassal chain who will love that your node got destroyed, because now they can grow. Since the nodes are level capped within their own chain, with a node being destroyed, they are allowed to upgrade their node once again.
I understand that the toll is really heavy on the people who will lose their node, but giving a permanent boost on the people who got desroyed wouldn't be fair with all the other vassals who want to level their node too.
Don't worry about the node, you will not have permission to upgrade it anyway due to the chain's level cap!
The node will be incorporated within a chain and it will be level capped at levels 0-1... so you will have no hard work to do, got it?
What you could do is simply migrate to the top node from your chain and try to defend it, so you won't lose all your stuff a second time.
I understand your concerns in regard of personal losses tough, since the node structure losses will be nothing compared to your personal losses in those blow up storages.
I have been in communities in the past that disapeared completely after a hard loss, for sure the same thing will happen in AoC with many people. Some people will even leave the game or take a long break.
There will be nothing to do in a destroyed node, people will go live in another node and the other node is already built and ugpraded.
Even if you stay in a destroyed node, you won't be able to upgrade it because the level cap.
Unnaware people will be mislead by these:
People won't be prepared for hard losses early on, so the hoarding will start and then when the loss comes they will get emotionally crushed.
People should be prepared, by Intrepid, early on for the losses, for migrating and even turnnig the coats.
Right, but my idea is precisely to make it slightly easier for people to relocate to a new node and rebuild there. That's the whole point of it. I am not sure where you are getting this about staying in the destroyed node from?
For example, if the freehold is destroyed, it'll require a lot of gold and materials etc. to reacquire a plot of land in a new node and rebuilding it. That is the process my idea aims to help, by turning all their hard work from their previous node into bonuses that help them rebuild at a new location.
After the node is destroyed there is nothing tying people to the place obviously. They can find a new node to be a citizen of as they want, and even before the node is destroyed, people are free to go where they want.
Is my OP unclear about this or something? I really don't understand why people think I suggested anything about people being tied to the destroyed node.
As for being incentivized to level up the node you are a citizen of, I mean, fair enough if you don't want that. Everybody has a different play-style. I think it's a good idea though, and healthier for the game.
I have no idea what could be done system wise, maybe nothing should be done and the right thing is preparing for the losses beforehand. Intrepid should also prepare people's mentality for the losses, otherwise the community will be made of crybabies and people having unreal expectations about risk-reward.
Player wise a couple things can be done to mitigate this.
You didn't mention ship losses, ships will be lost too.
Your OP isn't unclear.
I think Intrepid has hinted that they want this to be 'a choice made by other nodes through their policies' which I agree with slightly more, but it's another one of those things where I think the 'intended culture' of the game is the deciding factor, so I'm personally fine either way.
EDIT: Summoning the squad so you get more answers.
Policies could be e thing, other than this I think Intrepid should simply prepare people emotionally and mentally for the loss and for people reinventing themselves in the game
Let's take EVE Online for example, along the years, CCP games never prepared the player base for the dangers the players would face. EVE is a game where you can have 100% loss, you can lose stuff from your personal hangar too, you can 100% lose your private hangar... can you imagine?
What CCP Games did about it?
Pretty much nothing in regard of preparing the players for PvP and for losses, what CCP did was nerfing the game over and over, give boosts and give free items. The long term result is that thousand of people rage quitted, carebears quitted, PvPers quitted too, tryhards quitted. LOL
So, between 2019-2020, one milion new people tried EVE Online, nearly all gave up the game, very close to 100% quitted or rage quitted.
EVE started in 2003 and only in 2022 new players started being prepared for losses early on. Recently the tutorial missions and achievements include being killed by another player 20 times, dueling other players, dying to NPCs, etc... now the new players are finding out early on in the game that losing is ok, losses are ok, losing your assets is ok.
Well... this is what happens when game devs do not prepare people emotionally and mentally, giving boosts can never fix the real problem. The real problem is letting people fall in the illusion of safety... safety zones... no gear drops... no PvP zones, no losses etc
Intrepid should invest in preparing the player psychologically before start giving boosts, boosts by themselves will never suffice.
So, what do we see here in Aoc?
We can see Intrepid falling in the same mistake of following the "griefing/harassment" rethoric, instead of preparing people for the losses. When you are ready for the losses, you learn how to mitigate them and prepare beforehand.
Everybody will be losing stuff all along, even the best players and guilds will be losing stuff too.
I did play Eve Online as well yes, and it could be brutal in that sense.
I would certainly like to see some node policies about this too, as you suggest with the refugee policy. And yes I agree that Intrepid would do well to really prepare players for loss. Ashes will be less punishing than Eve Online. Players will never lose everything for example. But still, a lot of MMORPG players who have only tried the big themepark games like WoW, ESO, GW2, FF14, etc. might be in for a shock when their node is destroyed.
Nowadays EVE is different with the new tutorials, you have literally newbros begging you to shoot and kill them, because there's achievements for dying!
See? Changing people's perspective and preparing them early on is the way of doing things.
If this was done 15-20 years ago, EVE would have 10x more people playing right now
As a player who tends more towards wandering (I love to travel, both IRL and in games) and solo combat as I explore, I'd feel rather less inclined to build a home within a node at all if it could essentially go up in smoke while I'm out and about, and I do really like the concept of a node-helper system as outlined.
It means that I'm naturally incentivized to help out in a given node, and thus engage with the broader world economy more. If I'm in the mood for going out and frying some whatchamacallits, I'm much more likely to consider the node I'd be doing it in, if an actual insurance system is in place.
To use a different MMO as an example here... Elite Dangerous is a space simulator where you can purchase and customize ships. I spent months slowly saving up and preparing to purchase a particular ship I really like, and if the game DID NOT have a 'ship insurance' system allowing you to buy back destroyed ships (plus all custom parts) at a reduced cost, taking any meaningful risk with it could have been months of work down the drain if I made a mistake, something beyond my control such as a badly timed Internet issue happened, etc etc, which would have been especially problematic since I purchased that ship for combat purposes.
Without such a system in place within AoC, it's much more likely that I'd pretty much exclusively be spending my time and money on things like better gear to wear or such, and eventually that either dries up or I'll play another game to keep things fresh. I'd much rather feel safe broadening my investment and resources, and I believe this would also encourage other players like me to dabble in areas of the game that we otherwise would not.
The insurance will be moving the items beforehand. In AoC, I have no idea what could be done since it's not a sci-fi game, but a medieval fantasy game. But:
"Within a node siege declaration", this is confusing.
In EVE, there's the Asset Safety system, when a player station gets destroyed, all your items will be automatically moved to the closest npc station, npc stations are invulnerable. So, even tough EVE is brutal, there's asset safety at player level... but there is not Asset Safety for corporation hangar and the loss is 100%. So player hangars lose 0% and corporate hangars lose 100%.
But it's not even about the mats, it's about the rebuilding and the purchase of a new home. Newer freeholds will be more expensive, so a system that either cuts that price or just gives you back some money from your previous freehold purchase will help people with the move.
The loss of storage stuff is a motivator to go defend your fucking node. If literally nothing is lost, no one will fight for their nodes.
Instead, I’ll ask this question:
Do players understand housing is *not* permanent in Ashes?
But you told me in another thread that to declare a siege you don't need a war, so if another mayor declare siege on your node, then your itens are stuck in the storage?
How that works?
I think a lot of players will not understand it, or they will know it, but not be prepared for the feeling of that loss. So, no, many players will not really understand it fully I think. I hope I am wrong obviously, because that will be better for everyone. Edit: also, it's also the loss of the node and that community that is gone, or at least split up after a node is destroyed. The feeling of loss compounds.
It doesn't have to be another mayor. Anyone can create a siege scroll (expensive and requires a lot of materials) and then declare a siege on a node. Once that declared, yes, items are all locked in storage immediately and the defenders have a few days to prepare their defences. There will be no moving items until after the siege. My hope is that materials in storage, like wood and stone, can be used for that defense directly from storage.
Oh my, that's what I feared, not being able to move the items for days.
Once a siege is declared, players are prohibited from moving goods out of depositories within the node.[33][34][35]
This includes resources and materials that are stored in Warehouses, Chests within player housing, storage containers within guild halls, or within processing buildings on freeholds.[34][36]
Steven's stance on this seems that everybody has go all in for the defense
That just sounds like it's time to craft all those mats into something, assuming it ends up in your inventory
What happens to the node's AH and all listings? Citizens aren't the only people who use that
I don't there's an answer to that, but I believe the stuff will be lost too!
Since there are these mechanics that tell me that the AH is seen as a local building just like the other local buildings.
Integrated auction houses allow players to purchase items directly from remote auction houses.[4]
Purchases of materials and gatherables will be automatically deposited within the listing node's local warehouse. Players will need to travel to that warehouse to retrieve them. Players wishing to move these items elsewhere will need to utilize the caravan system or other type of transportation.[5][3]
Purchases of anything other than materials and gatherables will be mailed to the purchaser.[5]
This is exactly what will happen. Why would one risk their materials in chests if you can keep it safe on a offline character?
Let me start be saying that I like the idea of "softening the blow" without making the loss irrelevant. It still hurts and it should hurt and your idea is not taking away from that, your house is still gone.
But I would pack that up differently. Calling it "Node helper points" is way to mechanical and rewards us as players. An immersive game wouldn't do so. It would reward the character, which in turn is a reward to us. It ties into the story. And that is why I propose: "Favor of Creation"
Story Hook
In the world of Ashes, there is a Goddess of Creation and what better way to worship such a goddess than by creating things? Contributing to a Nodes progression and helping it grow so that more things will be created will grant you favors with the Goddess.
The Mehonix
The way this could work is that people earn favor with the goddess by:
The Benefits
First of all, I'd treat the favor as a "currency" system. You accumulate points and when then you can spend them on blessings of sorts. Some of them are permanent, others have upkeep costs in terms of requiring regular "offerings", meaning they consume weekly or monthly favor.
Another point to make - I would be heavily against being able to unlock all possible blessings. Maybe limit them to 3 or so.
Blessings:
With all that being said, I like the idea but I would advocate for a more immersive embedding.