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[Feedback Request] Cyclops Combat Preview Shown in May Livestream

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Comments

  • HeljyHeljy Member
    (+)I liked the boss’s general impression:
    - No particle slurry, it remains sober but aesthetic
    - No non-diegetic signals at FF14, for me it preserves immersion
    - Clear and stylish animations

    (-)In fear I would say:
    - Mechanics are not punitive enough, fighting seems too easy
    - The fight is a bit static. I would have liked a zone mechanism influencing the whole raid. (lightning or tremor spinning in cone around the boss, or whatever)

    Rest of the video:
    -What prevents HL players from killing all the fun of the fight, rushing the boss? Since it is not instantiated (and all the better), it will affect players who want to be helped, as well as those who want to fight legit
    - I love the mechanism of spiders in "defense", it brings a little variety. To go further, why not decline this in 3 status?
    - def-aggressive: advance slowly with animation
    - def: fixed as in video
    - def-fleeing: back up gently with animation
  • ShadowVenShadowVen Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2023
    How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?

    I loved the size comparison and sheer mass of the cyclops visually. At first when the team said it was (essentially) A lower tier world boss as a lvl 30, I was thinking "okay so its not terrible but would like to see more mechanics." However as I thought more about it, I realized this is a Mid level world boss, not a low lvl boss. Intrepid has previously stated that lvl cap at launch would be approx. lvl 50. This is only 20lvls from max, and with that in mind, this world boss should be much more difficult than what was potrayed.

    I'd like to see his "Rush" knockdown/stun (some sort of CC') everyone in his path. His rage should do more splash dmg or wider AoE. Give him more AoE mechanics which give the entire trinity system a bit more stress. Have where the DPS needs to jump or dodge more out of the way, give more damage where the healers need to have focus, some healers on AoE healing, other healers on tank, and other healers removing CC/debuffs. I may have missed it but i didnt see any tanks using the Aegis ability to help take on dmg from their fellow tanks or players. There needs to be much more dynamic to this mid lvl boss.


    What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
    My favorite memorable world bosses were in Everquest, FFXI (large NM's), and FFXIV. It normally required 30+ players for the larger world bosses. The bosses typically had many AoE's and CC's (knockdowns & Stuns). Some required more concise teamwork and communication than others, however I think the ones that had a more tactical approach were a lot more fun than the ones that just got burned down by dps or tank & spank.


    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?

    I am excited to have world bosses with over 20+ players working together to bring it down. I love working together with others and having that risk of other PvPers coming in. I think the Cyclops animations were great and looked good. The "impact" was missing though. For his size and his kind of attacks should have been more Impactful.

    I really love the work intrepid does and you guys have such amazing talent.
    Overall, I think for the lvl of this boss it definitely could use work but knowing this will be tested, I have faith it will become better. I'd expect this type of difficulty of a boss to be on low lvl dungeon bosses not World/Raid bosses, especially Mid Lvl ones.
    [img][/img]
  • How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
    It felt like it was a little lack luster, the mechanics did not seem like they mattered much especially for the ranged players, most of them were just standing around spamming their abilities, but I guess it has the bare basics that make a trinity based group play, the tank face tanks the dps stands around dealing damage and the healer heals when needed. Other than that the fight it self did not seem that interesting.

    I think you really need to give a strong range attack to the Cyclops like picking up and throwing trees/boulder/players, you really missed a chance by not having him picking up players.
    What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
    I don't really have favorite world bosses in most games I have played the world bosses are either a mess of
    particle effects from all the players engaging in combat with it and mechanics and dying doesn't matter that much or they are so weak that any sizeable group can roflstomp them easily without care, in some games world bosses can be soloed too. I had more interesting experiences when contesting said bosses in PvP areas but that was not because of the boss but due to hostile players.
    So for me world bosses are either glorified mobs at best, which imo is not bad if you heve to also take into account other rival players in the area, or inconsequential at worst.
    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
    Excited:
    I really like the behavior the spiders showed and I would like to see all NPCs in the world have similar and maybe even more complex behaviors. I would like to see predators hunting prey, prey running from predators, enemy humanoids trying to flee when they look like they are losing the battle etc...
    I also liked the way the Cyclops interacted with the forest and the trees the sound and the animations although they still need polishing were pretty good and if done good enough they will be very immersive.

    Just imagine as a low lever newbie in the area going through the woods and suddenly hearing footsteps and trees breaking in the distance only to turn around and see a huge Cyclops walking towards you.

    I think stuff like these are really cool and add to the immersion.

    Concerned:
    I feel like that making world bosses for low lever player is just asking for them to be roflstomped by higher level players. I believe it would be better if all world bosses content were for max level players. You could also place some of those bosses near or in places were low level players are as a hazard and another reason for high level players to revisit such locations.
    I think it would be good for new low level players to occasionally see a bunch of high level players organize and hunting those bosses or fighting each other for the spoils. It gives the newbies a chance to see some higher level content up close and also it gives another chance for low and high level players to interact with each other.

    ---

    Just because I felt "creative" here is a move set for a Cyclops that came to me after watching the fight for a second time.

    1st Phase:
    • Downwards swing: The Cyclops swing his tree-totem-club downwards dealing high damage to anyone under it and knocking down players(if they do not dodge or shield up) near the impact.
    • Sideways swing: The Cyclops swing his tree horizontally dealing damage in a cone in front of him and send everyone hit (if they do not dodge or shield up) flying back(knockback).
    • Stomp: Cyclops target a specific player and stomp them for massive damage everyone too close to that player also gets stomped and players a little further they get knocked down.
    • Pick up: Cyclops pick up a player/tree/boulder and throw them to a player(prefers to target those that are in range)
    • Berserk: Cyclops get into a frenzy, it increases significantly his speed and slightly his damage until the players cast enough CC type abilities on him at which point he gets stunned for a short period of time.(while stunned takes increased damage)
    2nd Phase(<50%HP):
    The Cyclops plants down his tree-totem and in an area around it players have decreased movement speed and attack speed. He is using the same attacks as the 1st phase but with different animations and faster since he doesn't carry his tree anymore.
    Pick up change and when he picks up a player instead of throwing them he hangs them on the tree totem. The other players can free them by attacking the totem's branches if he fills the totem with players, the players are "consumed" and are unable to be resurrected, the Cyclops regenerates health rapidly, has significantly increased damage and speed until the players destroy the totem(the totem can be attacked from the start of the 2nd phase).
  • Vaknar wrote: »
    [*] How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
    I thought it was great. Loved that the boss clearly kept everyone busy with lots of damage output, high AoE threat, and a large health-bar and strong regeneration mechanics.
    Vaknar wrote: »
    [*] What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
    Simple stuff. Shield effects you need to counter. Having to time your burst during windows when the boss's defences are down, where you lose if you waste all your cooldowns & mana during the invulnerable phases (so if you don't kill the boss within its first 5-7 vulnerable windows, it gets too strong and wipes your party or resets its encounter or something.)

    Combine gimmicks like that with high damage threat and some mechanics that require certain types of abilities (e.g. cleanses, certain damage types, certain resistance types, that typical stuff), and I'm happy.
    And don't provide all bosses' mechanics in quests. Hide the information for some of the difficult ones in books or something, for the community to find.
  • ElleandriaElleandria Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    Well here is one person who has not watched any of the development for this game and is merely butthurt that it is becoming an amazing game on its own without parroting off of others. Guazey Check this dude out lol has no idea this game is still in systems/network development while saying classes need to be more complex which has no hold on what is currently being tested. When Alpha-2 comes out I bet they will also think its a flushed beta and except to be playing a game instead of testing
    @Elleandrias I suggest you compare Azherae's number of messages and post vs yours. You've barely even been on this forum while Azherae is one of the most prolific and well-respected posters.

    Having a certain number of posts means nothing when his comments clearly show he has Zero insight into the development process of MMORPGs let alone that of Ashes of Creation, he can be well respected here all day but that doesn't negate the fact that the comment i responded to was purely subjective of his own illogical opinions, of which none were based in facts and only feelings. If that upsets you so much then maybe you should try to educate him some on how Alpha-Dev works for games such as this seeing as i have been with this game in testing for years now and curate for the Wiki page, I know a vast amount on MMORPGs from being on competitive and professional teams alongside having worked QAE for AAA Stuidos in the past. If you would like to state the factual and logical downfalls of Intrepid studios in creating Ashes of Creation then by all means feel free, but it sickens a lot of us to see people speak ill of work they know nothing about.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I want to give some extra general feedback for all the upcoming live streams:

    - Please take a moment and showcase your hybrid combat in every stream, remember, there are always new players watching and if you play from start to finish on one camera mode and don't even mention the hybrid system players will assume it's a tab-target game - it would only take 30 seconds to quickly mention the camera mode you are using and during the showcase change to action a few times and mention it

    - We love the multiple POVs shown, you can use this to always showcase the trinity system with a Tank, Healer and DPS POV, if you are only recording from 2 or 3 devs make sure they are using those different roles and not 2 POVs of a DPS

    - Showcase the weather system during gameplay, camera effects like snow, rain, also having fog or spring/autumn vfx effects are an amazing way to show the potential of the weather system, I think it was a missed opportunity in this Cyclops showcase to have just winter with snow that sends the impression that the game is bland, just because snow in general is bland

    - Showcase mobility during combat, instruct the testers to try showing that there is mobility even when casting/attacking, even tho it comes down to preference it's important for people to understand that skills don't root you in place and showing this through gameplay is very important

    - If you have more races ready to showcase like Dunir, Renkai or Vaelune show those races as well as more armor diversity for a better representation of the game, preference for in-game armor and not just cosmetics
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Horograus wrote: »
    I really disliked the fact that full weapons dropped, not materials to make said weapons. Also to make lower tier bosses relevant throughout the game, maybe they could drop Jewelry or something of this field that would be the best slot items even for the end-game players? Similar to Lineage II lower grade raid bosses dropping best rings? This ensures that items are super valuable and raid boss itself is super profitable to kill even for lower level players, everyone with too high of LVL will have to get it from market. A positive loop.

    I agree with this, I was hoping to start seeing materials being dropped not full items, crafting should be important from early game and showcasing this at a level 30 world boss would be perfect
    img]
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  • Kiwi_Kiwi_ Member
    How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops?
    To be completely honest, I know combat is always subjective, especially when it comes to PvE and I also know it's an early work in progress preview, but for me personally the stream left me feeling quite concerned about the direction(s) it's going rn. Of course not every individual player will be happy in the end, so I will just list my thoughts in detail and let you decide whether I'm even the type of player it's going to be for.


    Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?

    First - what I did like:
    • · It was great to see so many players able to play together in this early stage. It's always very concerning when devs only show 1-3 player gameplay before the game or an alpha/beta releases, so thank you for that!
    • · I felt the amount of effects where good in a way that I felt like it wouldn't get too overloaded for raids, worldbosses and large scale PvP like in BDO where you basically have to turn off all effects in order to see anything.
    • · I was also very pleased to see that you already took on the mage feedback with the added mist on the ground during the blizzard skill! Thank you so much for always taking the player's thoughts into consideration!
    • · Even though none of the phases were a completely new thing (which I think is super hard to do after like 2 decades of MMOs) with the tree weapon and everything around it, it definitely felt like there's thoughts and love behind it and not just another copy pasta thing. And I am super excited to see what's to come for more late game bosses!


    Second - what I didn't like:
    • · I'm sure you're aware of what happened there but I'm still gonna mention it for the completion - the graphics especially the characters looked kinda crappy and were glitching a lot. Like character models suddenly turning smaller and bigger with certain movements etc. But again, I kinda doubt you're not aware of this and it was probably due to the focus in the first place on making this thing work at.
    • · I felt the boss was too easy in terms of the amount of damage he dealt, etc. I know you mentioned that all that is difficult to rate since GM powers and whatnot, either way I just hope it's gonna be a bit harder for actual gameplay whatever the reason why it was so easy this time. I know it's the first low level world boss, however you guys keep on saying you want the game to be on the difficult side of gameplay, which imho also includes leveling and not just end game.
    • · This and the next point are probably my biggest worries though.
      The combat felt super static and slow too me. I know what games are Steven's biggest inspirations and still - I feel that slow and static gameplay is kind of outdated. I personally want to have to do more but standing in one spot, not having to use any movement spells what so ever, nor being able to move around while attacking. I am fine with strong spells with longer cast time requiring to stand still, but then there has to be a risk reward thing imo, big dps for standing still and actually risking to die. If there is no movement required there is no rewarding feeling for those big spells at all.
      Quick time reaction is so important to me - having to watch the boss, the phases, the adds, the other players and react to it - if I can just stand still and slowly press (or even mouse click ^^') my skills one after another I'm just gonna fall asleep tbh.
      And I know you guys don't want to go for quick time reaction iframe dodging but I feel like even though the game did so much wrong, TERA is a great example to see how much this can do for combat gameplay. Honestly the best PvE still I've ever played (at least until ~2016)
    • · Now the last point is something I noticed during the fight and really hope it was just part of the "GM powers". The potion gameplay really hurt my soul as a support main. Mana and heal potion spamming all over the place. To me this just feels so wrong and destroys so much actual group play potential. I feel like having to rely on the healer/support on doing their job is so important for an MMO and especially for a holy trinity system. With any game I played where heal potions were actually used during combat it just felt bland and wrong. Heal potions imo only should be viable during solo PvE/Leveling when you don't have a support with you.
      And with the mana it's the same. I feel adding the need for proper mana management through skills and mechanics really enrichens the gameplay. Just to make an example: Instead of having mana potions add mana regeneration support skills for some classes, this would also support your idea of making every class needed within a group. In addition to that I personally really like a skill or two for each class to recover mana for themselves. Those skills should have a difficulty to them though, like being able to miss them or requiring to apply a debuff to the enemy first.


    What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
    So tbh, no world bosses I encountered in games so far were requiring enough brain for my taste. Most are just masses of people spamming their skills at a tanky thing with (if at all) 1-2 "phases" where you need to move away or behind a pillar or something to avoid a oneshot hit.
    There were some that had more mechanics and phases to them but they all had one thing in common: the mechanics could simply be ignored.
    The only actual fun thing I remember was in TERA again where for some events the GMs spawned some of the most difficult dungeon/raid bosses open world.
    So I simply wish there were world bosses that actually require learning and reacting to the mechanics and phases. To put it even more simple: world bosses that require a brain.


    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?

    I'm pretty sure I listed all my concerns already, or at least most of them.
    However, to end this more "negative" post on a positive note:
    I am still (as with every live stream the past months) super excited about the detail and love you put into your game, thinking of stuff that all other games simply ignore, either because it's to much work or whatever. And you solve them brilliantly, bringing so much life and immersion to the game, I know not everyone is going to see or notice them but I really appreciate that personally and I can't wait to see more of those little details that make Ashes so different!
  • KyskeiKyskei Member
    I noticed that the cyclops took a while to get back on target after doing it's ramming charge attack. I think it would be cool and more engaging if you gave him the ability to leap or otherwise rush back to attacking the tank instead of fast-walking over. it would also up the pace of the fight a little bit which I think would be thrilling.
  • NiyaNiya Member
    Fight doesn't feel right. Attack animations of players and the boss do not correspond to the real area of effect.
    Also I don't feel the area where I will not take damage.
    About adds, why Cyclop summoned wolfs? First I thought they are just local mobs, they doesn't really suits to this boss.
    Really hope fight system will be as perfectly detailed, as environment. I admire your work.
  • First off <insert slow standing tennis clap here>, great progress Intrepid team. Last two updates have been awesome. The game looks great and the cyclops and the environmental interaction before the fight was great. Solo low level harvesters following him around collecting trees that may be normally out of their reach could be a whole secondary mechanic...

    My first reaction was the visuals of the combat. They looked especially good. Not too flashy and I could really tell what was being cast and from where. It was right in the sweet spot for me. The speed and directionality of the magic was really awesome. Adding that kind of directionality to some of the heals would be good as well. The field awareness you get from that is really helpful and gives a better sense of who is doing what. Again really cool.

    I thought the pace of the battle seemed a little slow and not very dangerous. Obviously balance is not next on the list, but watching the tanks health bar it didn't seem like the whole fight was very dangerous. Its a first boss, and a first demo, so I get that it needs work. But either faster easy or longer harder more dangerous. Long, easy bosses feel grindy...

    Boss phases were great and matched expectations. Love the direction. For a first boss, a PUG will have some trouble if they didn't know what was going on which is good.

    What I like in boss fights in dynamics and danger. In an outdoor fight like that, it would be nice if the whole fight was along a long line rather than back and forth in a circle. Using that fight as an example, if he ran off for a bit and everyone needed to chase for 100m, then he ripped another tree out of the ground since you destroyed his first one. Unexpected dynamics are encouraged as well. I actually don't like the fixed "Phase A-B-C" progression as much as I used to. I know its harder to build, but the newer, more dynamic "Phase A-C-F-B!" where there are multiple phases that can occur, but they don't always happen, they don't happen in the same order and some phases look the same, but are significantly harder ( Phase B vs B! ). That really helps the replay and the excitement. Also, have the loot table tied to the difficulty of the phases.. so if you get Phase F, you get excited because you know that something good is going to drop for sure.... then worried when the next phase B! looked easy, but your main tank just dropped. Finally, consequences for mistakes in raids I think needs to be higher. In the video, you mentioned that if you missed a block you get smushed. Great! More of that. Make it worse than just high damage too. For example, have the cyclops have a golf swing and if you don't dodge it, not only do you take massive damage, but you get thrown 100m high and 500m in a giant arc away from the fight, likely dying on impact, your corpse is now really far from res, and there is a longer than normal time penalty. If your a mage and you burn to hard, a tendril from that tree whips out and pulls you to him where he bites you in half in front of everyone...or bites your legs off and hucks you out of range. You don't die, are permarooted and you have to /suicide... that is a consequence ;).

    By far, hands down, the best raid boss ever was the Sleeper in Everquest. I will never forget running around in Skyfire when this massive ghost dragon spawned, agro'd me from way farther then usual and smoked me... and then zoned out to another zone and wiped everyone there. World chat went nuts, all the high level players got together and it went on for a long time it was by far one of the best events in my gazillion hours playing mmo's.. I haven't seen any other games do that. The mechanic of a super high level end game boss that wiped a raid party escaping into the world and rampaging across multiple zones until enough players communicated and brought it down was epic. Do that kind of encounter more.

  • KesarakkKesarakk Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Vaknar wrote: »

    To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters you can choose from:
    • How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?
    • What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.
    • Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?
    Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s Cyclops Combat Preview shown during the May Development Update

    I like that the Cyclops is a "low-level" world boss. The mechanics looked fun and I can only imagine what the others will eventually be as nodes progress.

    My concern is three-fold:

    1. While many of us are used to bosses with multiple phases and mechanics, I don't think that it's a good choice to have so much going on with a "low-level" world boss. These bosses should be with newer players in mind that are either new to fighting bosses or to MMOs in general. The first boss in every raid I've ever been in has been very straight forward with simple mechanics that require limited mental space. I believe "low-level" world bosses should be like this. The best way to awaken the inner-raider of a gamer is to give them an "easy" win and now they're hooked for life.

    2. While I can't wait to fight the Cyclops during testing, I can't help but wonder about what an encounter like this would look like a couple months after launch when players are near to or fully maxed out with their levels and potential gear. Will these world bosses "upgrade" with the players or will they remain as-is, as shown in the preview? My concern comes from knowing that more than a couple of raiding guilds will announce world boss kills to lower level players in exchange for some coin. This doesn't seem bad at first glance but I believe it will ruin the intention behind what these "low-level" world bosses are meant achieve, which is to be a gate-opener to the new player experience. Every MMO I've ever played has been ruined by the "In-game transactions" between players and thus diminishes the trials and triumphs players face in an unforgiving, virtual world.

    3. What happens to these "low-level" world bosses as Verra continues to progress? A node sprouts up where the Cyclops is. Does this Cyclops try to destroy it? Does another world boss, this one at max level, also show up, or will it replace the Cyclops? What happens to caravans that accidentally wander too close to a world boss? Will these bosses be deactivated if/when a node siege occurs, or will players be allowed to incorporate them somehow? I'm sure the team is asking these questions themselves, but I wanted to put it here just the same.

    My final thought:

    Leashing/kiting. I know people (Some are family) who have stories that are horrifying as they are hilarious about kiting bosses to major player hubs or leveling zones and watching chaos break out. I am personally indifferent to this, myself. On one hand I'd rather not have my limited game time interrupted because someone decided to kill all the NPCs via a world boss and now I have to wait to turn in my quests. On the other hand, I think it's a great story to tell around the dinner table with other gamers and brings a greater sense of community with the "Do you remember when?" stories that are bound to crop up as the node cities solidify players together.
  • Juni48Juni48 Member
    Ik optimitation is one of the last thing that the development thing does but i really suggest u guys start working on it, COMBAT DOES NOT LOOK SMOOTH/GOOD AT ALL WITH ALL THIS LAG AND DESYNC, its really hurting AoC reputation, U guys are doing montlhy updates of the games and it should look good for the rest of people to stay interested in the game and to attract more. keep it up and cheers to u all for your great work.
  • KilionKilion Member
    How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops?

    I was very satisfied with what I saw though, I would have hoped at some points for a bit more immersion regarding the boss himself (I'll explain in the next paragraph). The effects of abilities looked not as overwhelmingly bright as they did in the Tower of Carphin showcase (I'll discuss this point further down) and generally I think this makes for a great encounter to conclude the half way point to max level.


    Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?

    It might be due to the yet to be done balancing but the whole battle seemed over VERY quick, so that I had to rewatch the showcase to see them all. The pace seemed very high, maybe a bit too high to really see the different phases play out. Or I am just slow. The reason why I bring this up is that I actually liked what I saw in the different phases. Especially when he put the totem down that was a fantastic phase to have in a boss.

    The multi group gameplay didn't really make too much of a difference I felt, it looked like "just more people" overall, maybe some of the mechanics could require groups to stand together or to have clearer defined positioning? Overall i wouldn't say I have learnt too much about multi group gameplay to be honest.


    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?

    Concern: Once again I am wondering about the effects from abilities. The Cyclops was a big target to hit, but I don't know how many of the enemies we will face will be that big, the angry treasure chest in the Tower of Carphin wasn't and the effects could easily blind us to the animations and location of the enemies. Personally, I don't think that toggeling down effect intensity is the way to go here unless the effects are designed/ "balanced" around not being fully amped up. I might add this as a perspective: You, Intrepid, designed the game and that might help you find your way even though effects might be a bit overly spectecular, we as players however do not have that insight advantage but would love to equally enjoy the experience which might suffer from not being able to see what is happening, especially since enemy movement/animations is highly important to react appropriately while the skills effects help with immersion. I hope to see there being an appropriate balance to be found or an explanation on how design of effect intensity has been done so far.

    Suggestion: On the point of immersion - we saw the Cyclops roam. Great, that's interesting and scary for low level players in the area. But what does he actually do? It would be great if he would have a kind of routine, e.g. by night he looks for a sheltered spot, spawns some spirit wolves to protect him in his sleep and lies down, or makes a fire and cooks prey he hunted during the day. In winter he will prefer roofed spots, in summer under open skies. By day he might choose to go hunting or drink water, maybe work on his totem or collect wood, make a fire and cook his prey and eat or maybe create graves for his fallen comerades.
    I know this is a lot of work for an "idle" NPC but it would really make it feel like he is a living creature in the world. It would also be cool to have means by which we can discover his stories. e.g. a farmer a bit off the beaten path who offers a goat every now and in a particular spot to appease him.


    Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s Cyclops Combat Preview shown during the May Development Update

    I have heard a couple of people already complain about the world looking "dull" or graphics no longer looking fancy. While I personally don't know why anything even in development stage has to keep up with rendered korean vaporware, I'd like to know whether the biome in terms of graphics was already finished. There were some floating bushes in the beginning, the bushes themselves had no shadows, character and boss shadows didn't get darker towards the body and some of the points where tree roots went into the snow covered ground could be considered very hard transitions. Again, I agree with Steven that the high quality of incentive systems and well running, compelling game mechanics are much more important than keeping up with P2W Grindsimulator graphics. But I would be interested to know how far along the recent environments were from a visual perspective - namingly the Oakenbane Castle, the area of the Mage showcase and the landscapes where the Cyclops Showcase took place.

    And lastly big compliment for the spider behavior, that was really fun and interesting to watch. It would be great to have some smaller creatures actually try to flee when encountering players rather than just charge at something 5 times their size.

    Realy enjoyed the livestream, cant wait to see more, looks to me like the game is coming along fairly well.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • GigGig Member
    Greetings from Australia. I really enjoyed the boss fight preview and showed it to some of my mates who are also gamers but not activly following the development of this game. Their feed back was positive like mine.
    To me the fight looked clean and fun. My only concern is it was completed with limited class types so it is difficult to know how it will for sure be in a live world with mixes of skill set players and types.
    WIth that said i know the world is going to be very interactive and open world content is going to be large. I like the idea of mini world bosses and world bosses. However it would be good to limit or scale the difficulty of them. Example being if this is the first encounter of a world boss perhaps the machanics need to be moderatly difficult as to not deter future boss fighters when hitting max level. Each progression of boss can scale up in machanics and difficulties. I remember when i first played WOW back in the good old days of Vanilla. The excitment of exploring the world....coming across the random rare elite or group of elites and running for my little locks life.....If i had encountered in those early days a boss that was difficult or complicated i probbally would never have become an end game content player or played as much as i did. The importance of early fights doungens and world encounters to teach and train players and more so possible new players to the game is more important then an extra machanic or event that would be fine for a seasoned player. If the early encounters are more of a teaching fights (which can still be fun and enjoyable) the chance of retaining those new players is greater.
    End of the day the way the boss fight looks was good. The way it interacted with the enviroment was awsome and to be honest in todays world i beveilve that was a must. I believe and so do most the people i know that i speak to about the game is you are heading in the right direction. Keep up the good work.
  • JentoJento Member
    Here's an idea... Stop with the previews (people like to "discover" things). Also stop spending all day designing "packs" to milk money from the community... And focus on finishing the damn game already. It could've been released already if you weren't so greedy.
  • MalakMalak Member
    Love the direction that AoC is taking.

    The character art is amazing an loved the way the cyclops moved.

    The combat, however, was less than exciting to me, literally no holy crap moments.

    How did you like the mechanics of the Boss fight?

    I think the boss mechanics where good. The double fist slam while in rage, the tree spike, all the attacks made sense and occurred in a good order. The only boss attack that didn't make much sense was the rage charge... not sure about that one but certainly not a game breaker.

    What really stood out to me was the absolute lack of player reaction to the boss attacks. For example when the boss did the Tree Spike attack the target was standing almost immediately after the attack... what is with the 1-2 second knockdowns in a BOSS fight? I think my criticism will better be explained if I go through all of the Bosses attacks and player reaction to those attacks.

    Kick Attack - looks like: frontal aoe attack with a 1-2 sec KD (knock down) - Attack looks fine but the player reaction to the attack is less than believable.
    would like: 30 ft frontal aoe with 60 ft punt in the air and 3 sec KD (dodge and Block).

    Tree Spike - looks like: single target attack with a 1-2 sec KD. The graphic of the tree lifting off the player is occurring and the player is already standing?...
    would like: make it a 5 ft aoe attack with a 4 second KD (dodge) and a blood spatter graphic if a player is hit

    One Foot Stomp - looks like single target with 1-2 sec KD
    would like: make it a 5ft aoe attack and 3 KD and 3 sec stagger (dodge removes the KD and block removes the stagger)

    Tree Charge - looks like a frontal charge attack with 1-2 sec KD
    would like: frontal charge attack with 10ft push to the side and 3 sec KD (dodge)

    Rage: Love when the cyclops goes into rage, unfortunately there is no sign that he is in rage after the initial reaction. need an indicator here (music and visual). we've all seen it before, red steam rising from his body and 10% size increase... idk, we need something though.

    Rage Slam - looks like a frontal 30 ft aoe attack with 1-2 sec KD. This attack looks amazing but once again the player reaction to the attack is so bad.
    would like: 30 ft frontal aoe attack with a 3 sec stacking KD and 3 sec stacking stun for each slam and some serious damage (dodge removes the stun and block removes the KD). Each slam that hits "bounces" the player back 5 ft.

    Rage Jump: looks like a 10 ft GTAOE attack with a 1-2 sec KD
    would like: 20ft GTAOE attack. Those hit within 10ft are 5 sec KD with serious damage. Those hit in 11-20ft are punted back 10 ft and 3 sec KD. two foot prints with the player bent in the footprint design with some blood splatters would look really cool for those that got hit in the 10 ft radius (no dodge or block you need to physically get out of the way of this attack)

    Rage Hand Swipe: looks like single target attack with 1-2 sec KD... really?!
    would like: 10 ft aoe attack with a huge 150 ft punt and 5 sec KD and 10 sec stun after the punt. damage sustained initially and on impact (out of healing range ;p)... see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!

    Lord of the Rings: When Sauron swings his mace and 5 people flew like 100ft... talk about your cool factor or awesome value... The Rage Hand Swipe is the perfect opportunity to add that factor! You KNOW your fighting the BOSS when you're flying 150 feet through the air...

    Rage Charge: looks like charge with 1-2 sec KD.
    would like: this attack to be removed. something that big charging at me would be the easiest dodge in the entire world. I think this is the only attack that really does not add anything to the fight.

    Other things I noticed:
    The mushroom caps or spores, did not really stand out that much and if you had no idea about the mechanics of the Boss (we are not all developers here), I think the Boss would have healed up quite a lot. Maybe make them more noticeable with neon green color or green spore mist rising from them, just something that indicates this is part of the fight...

    When the Boss dies, he really looks like a bad graphic. I don't know why but he really looks fake which is in such contrast to how he looks and moves while alive. Also being able to run through the downed boss is pretty bad, there should be some sort of blocking mechanic to prevent this (he may be dead, but he still occupies space).

    Like others have noted, we need some kind of loot identifier as well (gold hew and coins rising from the dead corpse or the ever popular glowing chest 20 ft from the downed boss). definitely needs something though so we know if the boss has been looted.

    All in all a pretty cool fight but you guys are making such a visually stunning game and are trying very hard to bring new and cutting edge ideas to the MMO, I really think you need to revisit the player reaction to attacks... I won't lie the 1-2 sec KD you attached to the attacks is pretty weak considering your goals for this game. A boss fight needs to be the best fight.

    I know you guys are not even in Alpha 2 yet, so I'm sure a lot of the concerns I've talked about will be addressed and fine tuned before release, I'm just pointing out what I've noticed in the "now" of the game as you have requested.
  • AstroliteAstrolite Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2023
    My main concern is pvp around the world boss. There probably needs to be some sort of mechanic where infamy is nulled in the area when a boss is pulled to allow contesting a boss.
  • YouOweMeCookiYouOweMeCooki Member
    edited June 2023
    So I decided to make this post to elaborate some of my thoughts and thought process on last Office hour question " Large Creatures Impact on Environment":

    Even though I live in one of the safest countries in the world (sadly??), I'm no stranger to (devastating) natural phenomena as I've read and watched plenty of articles and videos. I'm also a little bit too comfortable with the dark side of live, which allows me to also see the beauty in such events. You see, even though it brings destruction to the status quo; Burned down forest, removal of flora, fauna and manmade buildings by landslides, flooding, eruptions, etc., it also brings oppertunies for new life to grow and collaboration of humans and animals alike to fight a common goal.

    Now tying this back to the question "Large Creatures Impact on Environment", I think this is a great mechanic to shape and reshape the world over time. Also, by adding this to world bosses, they will stay relevant during all stages of the game instead of just being there for certain drops. In so many games, world bosses will get ignored eventually as they don't provide anything anymore as their loot is worthless (low lvl) or outperformed by other bosses (weaker gear). By tying in the world bosses into the Node system (Environments), a fundamental system in the game that will always be a part of the game, allows for these bosses to stay relevant/impactful if not dealt with or used to weaken neighboring nodes for easier sieges or economics purposes.

    Now there're many ways World Bosses can have effect on the environment, both positive and negative, as well as before, during or after the world boss spawns, lives or got killed. I would like to go over a few of my thoughts to highlight each of them:

    Before
    • A great example of an environmental effect that is known to trigger a spawn of a world boss is the volcano eruption. This would wipe out both fauna and flora out of the area but afterwards could lead in a very fast grow of new and more flora after it's cooled down. This is because lava is known to be a great fertilizer as it brings a lot of useful minerals to the surface. This could than be followed up by slowly reintroducing the fauna, starting with herbivores before eventually predators coming back.
    • Another example would be low/high tides caused by a seamonster. This could lead to dried up rivers/ocean that would remove fishing spots or leave things like oysters all across the now dried out ocean floor, easier to be picked up. In contrary, this could also float some of the lands and wipe away some of the flora/smaller objects along the sea or rivers. This could than be followed up by a faster growth rate of flora & fauna once the tide has turned.

    During
    • Tumok the Wretched is one of the examples of this, removing trees and maybe stones along its path. Even though these are just minor environmental effects, this could scale up the longer he's around.
    • Animal migration could be another strong/devistating effect on both the node itself as well as its neighboring nodes that can be caused by a dangerous and predatory world boss. By introducing a very dangerous predatory world boss, animals would flee to neighboring nodes to stay safe. This could lead to both possitive and negative effects to the world boss node as well as the serounding nodes.. In the World boss node, duo to the fact there're less animals, flora might be growing more/faster as there're less animals that would eat them. In contrary, nodes around the world boss would see a decline in flora duo to overpopulation. It can also lead in more smaller predatory animals to populate as there're more animals to feed on.
    • Eternal winters or summers caused by world bosses could also lead to environmental effects until players have dealt with the world boss. This could effect a lot of things like farms and fish spawns.
    • Similar to Tumok the Wretched mushrooms, some roaming world bosses could leave down a trail of fungi spores that could effect the environment negatively or leave behind a trail of flowers. This could add a dynamic for players to choice to kill or not to kill this world boss for the good or bad of themselves or others.
    • World bosses that would attack/destroy nodes in Village or lower stages along its path. This adds a bit of an urgency or require the villagers to defend their place directly. They could also send a message to their parent nodes to help them out as it also impacts them.

    After
    • Spawning temporary flora at the location of where the boss died. As world bosses go up in ashes like everyone else, this could lead to a temporary spawn of flora species of that region to grow on that specific location.
    • Return of equilibrium. When a world boss has negative effects like influence of weather or animal migration, nature would return to normal over time. However, it usually starts with an overbalance of what was missing before. For weather influences, it could mean that after this winter, a lot more flora will spawn during the spring, only to be back to normal during summer. For animal migration, this means that herbivores will be re-introduced first and will be overpopulated before the re-introduction of predatory animals.

    These are just some of the ideas/thoughts that I had around this subject and I hope to see these, as well as other mechanics to be added to world bosses to keep them relevant during the game. Just make sure they don't become a nuisance by having solid respawn timers and/or rotations between boss encounters.
    People only believe in the beautiful view behind the tunnel, if they walk into the light at the end of the tunnel to see it for themselves.
  • ILLPeonUILLPeonU Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2023
    How do you feel about the combat preview featuring the Cyclops? Do you like the mechanics, multi-group gameplay, and boss phases?

    What are your favorite open-world raid bosses, or world bosses? Please provide examples when applicable.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cyclops Combat Preview?

    1. I really enjoyed the preview of the cyclops, it's original, his abilities unique and overall looks like a fun encounter. The fact that world bosses will be uncovered depending on how the nodes unfold is the best Idea though.

    2. I enjoyed the World Dragons from DAoC, but AoC already has some kickass dragons. ALthough a Mechanic that could only be applied AFTER you killed a World Boss could be very cool. ie, Even though banned the Cyclops seek revenge for killing 1 of their own and attack the node responsible in Force. Not right away but in a range of weeks after the event.

    3. The loot drops while knowing it's very early in the process, looked very bad for all the effort, if it's a world boss then nothing lower than a Epic should be given, that being said I also think it would be cool to give a Gold Payout to those raid members who helped, nothing over the top but just a nice reward for those who didn't win anything so no one goes away empty handed.
    "Don't Pee in the Wind"
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  • I know this is an old post and I don't know if someone already mentioned the raid UI but this just came up in combination with the cleric update (as it was very useful for healers).
    A long time ago I played a game called Shaiya and in this game you have both an UI for your party as well as for raids which could coexist with one another as shown in the picture.
    kfwlk9gr68f7.png
    Both windows were able to scale to your liking as well as make them more or less transparent. You could even close the raid window all together if it had no use for you. Now from an healers perspective, this was very powerful as the raid window won't allow you to see the buffs and debuffs on players (for dispel) unless you had that specific party window open and the party window isn't showing everyones health so you could target and heal players in other parts of the group. Together, it allowed you as a healer to heal everyone as well as dispelling players when they have debuffs on them.

    I'm hoping AoC will have the same type of UI as this game had in the past as it was a very good system.
    People only believe in the beautiful view behind the tunnel, if they walk into the light at the end of the tunnel to see it for themselves.
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