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UE5 Fluid Flux 2.0

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Comments

  • WHIT3ROS3WHIT3ROS3 Member
    TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »
    Jeez, can you guys just DM one another and go back n forth there?

    We are all talking about the subject. You are the only one who interjected with an Off Topic response.
  • superhero6785superhero6785 Member, Alpha Two
    edited June 2023
    Nerror wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    I'd prefer imagining the game launching before 2030 with no more scope creep being added

    It's not scope creep if Intrepid has intended to keep their engine up to date all along. That's what they've been doing anyway, so I fully expect that to continue as long as they see a benefit.

    This isn't just "keeping the engine up to date". This is a plugin made by a 3rd party. It would most definitely need to be integrated into Intrepid's OWN modifications to the engine, not to mention how does it scale with performance, etc. Nothing is ever as easy as "flipping a switch".
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    Graphics envy will always be a thing, we can only hope AoC gets the right performance/visual balance for the majority of the players.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2023
    Ok, some of you seem to have the mistaken belief that if something is added to the game engine during development that takes time and effort, it is automatically scope creep. That's not the case at all, but it explains the comments. :smile: Seriously, look up the definition for it yourself if the one I gave wasn't good enough.
    superhero6785 wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    I'd prefer imagining the game launching before 2030 with no more scope creep being added

    It's not scope creep if Intrepid has intended to keep their engine up to date all along. That's what they've been doing anyway, so I fully expect that to continue as long as they see a benefit.

    This isn't just "keeping the engine up to date". This is a plugin made by a 3rd party. It would most definitely need to be integrated into Intrepid's OWN modifications to the engine, not to mention how does it scale with performance, etc. Nothing is ever as easy as "flipping a switch".

    I should probably have said "keeping the technology up to date" instead of the engine. That's on me for not being precise. The whole idea that it's as easy as flipping a switch is purely a straw-man argument. I haven't seen a single person here (including me) argue that is the case, or even hint at it. As for it being 3rd party, that has zero bearing on whether or not it's scope creep. Again, adding things that take time is not automatically scope creep. That's not what that means. It's the "why it's added" that's important, and if the process is controlled and done with proper evaluation of the impact on the project as a whole.

    We are getting early looks into the development of this game. Do you really think game devs lock down engine tech and graphics this early in development normally? You don't think they constantly keep a look out for new tech that could improve either the game or the development process until much closer to release? The transition to UE5 took time, but it also saved development time. This is completely normal for big games that take many years to build. It's well within the scope of the project to do this. Normally, for these big games, we just don't see that process, because it's behind closed doors.

    To keep this thread just a little on topic, I hope the team Steven said they have at Intrepid for evaluating this kind of new tech takes a look at the Fluid Flux plugin, and if they determine it can fix an issue they currently have with getting water to look the way they want, they implement it, and if not, move on. Either way it goes, it's still not scope creep. <3

    Edit: Once we get close to beta is when things should be locked down. Betas are for refining and bugfixing only. Alphas are for adding the necessary features and the necessary tech.
  • superhero6785superhero6785 Member, Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    superhero6785 wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    I'd prefer imagining the game launching before 2030 with no more scope creep being added

    It's not scope creep if Intrepid has intended to keep their engine up to date all along. That's what they've been doing anyway, so I fully expect that to continue as long as they see a benefit.

    This isn't just "keeping the engine up to date". This is a plugin made by a 3rd party. It would most definitely need to be integrated into Intrepid's OWN modifications to the engine, not to mention how does it scale with performance, etc. Nothing is ever as easy as "flipping a switch".

    [truncated]...Again, adding things that take time is not automatically scope creep. That's not what that means. It's the "why it's added" that's important, and if the process is controlled and done with proper evaluation of the impact on the project as a whole.

    We are getting early looks into the development of this game. Do you really think game devs lock down engine tech and graphics this early in development normally? You don't think they constantly keep a look out for new tech that could improve either the game or the development process until much closer to release? The transition to UE5 took time, but it also saved development time. This is completely normal for big games that take many years to build. It's well within the scope of the project to do this.

    "Scope Creep" is just semantics. The original comments were regarding delaying the game until "2030" because of constantly chasing better graphics. If I were in charge the environment team responsible for water/ocean/ship gameplay and I had a backlog of features/stories relatively defined, and then someone approached me saying - "Hey, can you implement this new water tool?" - I'd almost certainly consider that scope creep for all intents and purposes. That doesn't mean I'd say "No", it just means there's probably some considerable evaluation, overhead, and effort it's going to add to the current set of work. One of the benefits of not having a defined release date is it allows for scope creep, and releasing "when it's ready"...which may be 2030 :smile:

    Just my two cents as a senior engineer.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2023
    superhero6785 wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    superhero6785 wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    I'd prefer imagining the game launching before 2030 with no more scope creep being added

    It's not scope creep if Intrepid has intended to keep their engine up to date all along. That's what they've been doing anyway, so I fully expect that to continue as long as they see a benefit.

    This isn't just "keeping the engine up to date". This is a plugin made by a 3rd party. It would most definitely need to be integrated into Intrepid's OWN modifications to the engine, not to mention how does it scale with performance, etc. Nothing is ever as easy as "flipping a switch".

    [truncated]...Again, adding things that take time is not automatically scope creep. That's not what that means. It's the "why it's added" that's important, and if the process is controlled and done with proper evaluation of the impact on the project as a whole.

    We are getting early looks into the development of this game. Do you really think game devs lock down engine tech and graphics this early in development normally? You don't think they constantly keep a look out for new tech that could improve either the game or the development process until much closer to release? The transition to UE5 took time, but it also saved development time. This is completely normal for big games that take many years to build. It's well within the scope of the project to do this.

    "Scope Creep" is just semantics. The original comments were regarding delaying the game until "2030" because of constantly chasing better graphics. If I were in charge the environment team responsible for water/ocean/ship gameplay and I had a backlog of features/stories relatively defined, and then someone approached me saying - "Hey, can you implement this new water tool?" - I'd almost certainly consider that scope creep for all intents and purposes. That doesn't mean I'd say "No", it just means there's probably some considerable evaluation, overhead, and effort it's going to add to the current set of work. One of the benefits of not having a defined release date is it allows for scope creep, and releasing "when it's ready"...which may be 2030 :smile:

    Just my two cents as a senior engineer.

    Yup, I pretty much said the same in the beginning, that this is a semantic argument. I also think semantics are important though. They are the very basis for mutual understanding. We can't really have meaningful discussion without agreeing on the terminology. :smile:

    I completely understand not wanting to delay a project just because something new comes out that is "neat", and for no other reason. I don't want that either.

    And even if this tech fixes a problem that they might have, they still need to do a proper evaluation considering the overall timeline and all that, as you say, to determine if it's worth it.

    I am really happy Intrepid doesn't have a board of investors or a publisher breathing down their necks. It allows them to do what they need to do to hit this out of the park, instead of releasing it half-assed like we saw with New World and so, so many other projects.
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