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Linux Support For Alpha2 (and possibly launch)

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Comments

  • VerusVerus Member, Alpha Two
    Adding another comment to the thread in support of enabling Linux functionality, which is designed to be quite easy in the engine that they are using if they enable alternatives for anti-cheat. The proportion of Linux users interested in Ashes can be anticipated as higher than most MMOs for reasons that should be intuitive.

    Please do consider some low level of basic Linux support even if it's simply allowing a third party platform such as Steam to assist.
  • thunderfury2024thunderfury2024 Member, Alpha Two
    The resources should be invested in the completion of the game.
    Linux support is only relevant for very few people and can still be done after release.
  • SkoltrSkoltr Member, Alpha Two
    I think intrepid should not spend time on linux, It would be nice if they took it in account to allow people to try and get it working with wine and such (I for one dislike Windows).

    But on the other side, can we stop the disinformation and hate on Linux just because someone posts about support without being reasonable?

    I installed windows this week, and the amount of problems I'm facing far exceed what I experienced with Linux for e.g. the last year.
    Blue screen when joining voice chat, no audio with headphones in games, pop ups everywhere.

    I'm all for ignoring linux to get something done, but go please stop claiming things just work on Windows, because to me things feel far less stable.

    it must be my outdated hardware from 2023.
  • ZehlanZehlan Member, Alpha Two
    Skoltr wrote: »
    I installed windows this week, and the amount of problems I'm facing far exceed what I experienced with Linux for e.g. the last year.
    Blue screen when joining voice chat, no audio with headphones in games, pop ups everywhere

    it must be my outdated hardware from 2023.

    I don't think the hardware is the problem! I have installed windows 10 on 4 machines in the last 2 months the oldest being i7 2600k discontinued Q1 2013/gtx 1060 an I7 4790k/5700 xt an I7 9700kf/rtx 3070ti and my main machine a 7800x3d with a 7900xtx I used rufus never had problem and my main machine I used a tiny 10 build of windows. So I am guessing it is probably the other variable in involved which is not hardware related.
  • AzalrothAzalroth Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 26
    It worked in the prior Alphas. Now we only have one problem, that we can´t login in the launcher because it uses webview2 which stays white. But @ThunderGrove on Discord mentioned following steps which not work for me because I use wayland session I think:
    So far the only version of WebView2 that kind of works for me under Linux are version 109. I got so far that the launcher installs the client and the button to launch the game appears, but the button does not start the game and no errors appears. What I did where:
    1. Install Bottles with the non-GIT version in AUR
    2. Create a bottle in Bottles
    3. Before staring installing the launcher I installed the WebView2 under the Dependencies menu in the bottle.
    4. Used Bottles to start the launcher installer.
    5. After starting the launcher and clicking on the log in button, a window with the only content being black appeared. When right clicking inside the window near the right edge a black box appeared with the size a rightclick menu. Then I left clicked near the left egde and press ctrl+a then ctrl+c then opend a text editor and did crtl+v, and text from what looks like a log in page appeared in the text editor. The WebView loads the login webpage but does not display it.
    6. Left click near the top left edge of the window, then I pressed tab and typed my e-mailaddress (note that sometimes apps under Wine does not like the "ALT GR" button on EU keyboards so chars like "@" as to be copied past from another program), then I pressed tab and typed my password, then pressed on enter and some seconds later the WebView windows closes and launcher allowed me to start the download and install of the client.
    7. The download and install completed without any errors, and I get a launch game button. The button tries to launch the client but nothing happens with no errors. If I launch the AOCClient.exe directly with the same bottle in Bottles, the game starts with a outdated GPU driver warning followed by an error code 10, but I can continue to a transparent "Connecting" screen where I can see the character select screen behind it. If I wait long enough time I can get access to trying out the character creator. If the launcher are running while the game is running the launcher can see it.

    Also @seki3082 on Discord mentioned :
    Just another note for those Linux users trying out these steps - if you get to the point after clicking the log in button and the webview2 window is all white with no box the size of a right click menu to do the rest of the steps with, try going into the Bottles settings and enabling Wine Virtual Desktop before trying again. This is what made it work for me and has allowed me to at least start downloading and installing the game.

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/62094/linux-tips-tweaks-and-troubleshooting-thread/p1?new=1
    Silence is freedom...
  • ThevoicestHeVoIcEsThevoicestHeVoIcEs Member, Alpha Two
    It's okay we'll just dual boot that bloatware OS, until linux support is finally recognized by Intrepid
    I'm a fairly heavy Windows AND Linux user at work. That bloatware OS is the most approachable platform which supports game development AND virtually controls the market. As much I would love some competition, Linux and gaming remains a thing for hobbyists, NOT consumers.
    My lungs taste the air of Time,
    Blown past falling sands…
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    It's okay we'll just dual boot that bloatware OS, until linux support is finally recognized by Intrepid
    I'm a fairly heavy Windows AND Linux user at work. That bloatware OS is the most approachable platform which supports game development AND virtually controls the market. As much I would love some competition, Linux and gaming remains a thing for hobbyists, NOT consumers.

    Indeed it does.

    The thing with this is - it is Linux that needs to step up to the plate, not game developers.

    Rather than people complaining to game developers that "but this game supports Linux, why can't you?", they should instead be asking "what is it you need from Linux in order to support your game, I'll go bug them with that information for you".
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Kind of unsure why there are four Linux threads on the go right now.
  • FunkychickenFunkychicken Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    To get the client fully working in linux, please see the post here:
    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/480141#Comment_480141
  • LucyusILucyusI Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am adding my name here to ask for Linux support.
    I want to ditch Windows and fully move to Linux, but I can't due to gaming.
  • FunkychickenFunkychicken Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I have created a video on how to install it for linux. https://youtu.be/ecWbxoojQsI
  • thunderfury2024thunderfury2024 Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Kind of unsure why there are four Linux threads on the go right now.

    I rather don't understand why people waste their time with it and don't just use Windows :D
    Yes I know Microsoft is sooo evil.
    Even if Microsoft collects data, at least the stuff works.
  • Archy_PelagoArchy_Pelago Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 30
    Thanks @Funkychicken! Pretty straight forward, might give a shot at alpha2

    @thunderfury2024 windows 10 free support end will end on October 2025, which means people will have to pay for security updates or upgrade to windows 11.
    Windows 11 has implemented AI support (I think they made it an app now and not integrated into the OS) and 'recall' (could be considered spyware).
    Windows 'recall' requirements:
    • A Copilot+ PC.
    • 16 GB RAM.
    • 8 logical processors.
    • 256 GB storage capacity.

    Which does not seem that much in today's standards but one day, this will be the minimum requirement to install windows. If you don't value your efficiency, money and privacy use windows.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Microsoft is indeed a soulless moneysucker of a monopoly, and sadly only getting larger and infecting more of the gaming world as the months go by. Valve is one of the few holdouts fighting the good fight in making games accessible to other OS's, but I'd rather Intrepid ditch any hard reliance on Microsoft systems. The web program is so absurdly unnecessary
  • ShufuneShufune Member, Alpha Two
    Just another plea to Intrepid to tick the box for linux EAC support! Nothing else needs to be done for the linux/steam deck community. Any launcher issues will eventually be easily solved for people with lutris install scripts. We just need easily implemented anticheat support for our sanity, please!
  • LucyusILucyusI Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 31
    @Caeryl They implemented the webview because they use oauth to authenticate between all services and servers.
    It is weird to have it work like this, but that's probably because it was the fastest way to do it instead of implementing oauth in the client.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    LucyusI wrote: »
    @/Caeryl They implemented the webview because they use oauth to authenticate between all services and servers.
    It is weird to have it work like this, but that's probably because it was the fastest way to do it instead of implementing oauth in the client.

    Faster sure, but worse
  • NovacadianNovacadian Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    RazThemun wrote: »
    Heck they could just do a poll in their discord; Asking who uses linux? Results would likely be less than 5% of the discord community.
    Steam Hardware Survey from last month still has less than 2% of Steam users (aka, PC gamers) as using Linux. There is no need for any further survey.

    That may be deceptive. My gaming laptop has a dual boot setup. Most of the gaming done is through Windows 10. This is not by preference but through need. So Steam may rate me outside of the 2% when my preference is 100% Linux. Just a thought.
  • FunkychickenFunkychicken Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Turns out the AOCClient.exe which is run when you press launch, does a directx12 check and the window wants dotnet 4.72 or above to run which isnt supported. So I have had a look at bottles. The dotnet 4.72 and 4.8 breaks the Launcher install so I think we may need to go back to wine from source install with vkd3d library integrated and then use winetricks to install dotnet4
  • ichihaifuichihaifu Member, Founder, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    The thing with this is - it is Linux that needs to step up to the plate, not game developers.

    Rather than people complaining to game developers that "but this game supports Linux, why can't you?", they should instead be asking "what is it you need from Linux in order to support your game, I'll go bug them with that information for you".

    The day Torvalds bends the knee and takes away kernel access just so gaming companies can "trust" the platform is when all hope in this world is lost.

    Gaming companies in general are all not taking online gaming seriously by offloading the trust checks on third parties and relying on their "anti cheat" software just so they can "trust" the players computers. Its all backwards... and New World was a great example of that. The trust validation needs to be in the developers hands, implement the necessary techniques to catch cheaters and ban them, its as simple as that in an online only game.
  • TheeJonesyBoyTheeJonesyBoy Member, Alpha Two
    Has anyone been able to get it to run on their steam deck? I get to the point of the EOC anticheat and then have hit a roadblock there anyone find a work around?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited November 11
    ichihaifu wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    The thing with this is - it is Linux that needs to step up to the plate, not game developers.

    Rather than people complaining to game developers that "but this game supports Linux, why can't you?", they should instead be asking "what is it you need from Linux in order to support your game, I'll go bug them with that information for you".

    The day Torvalds bends the knee and takes away kernel access just so gaming companies can "trust" the platform is when all hope in this world is lost.

    I agree.

    Which is why ever expecting game developers of competitive games to support Linux is not realistic.

    I mean, if you were developing a game that players would leave if there was a lot of cheating, would you support an additional 2% of players if doing so meant allowing your game to be used in an environment where you were basically helpless at stopping cheating?

    This is why casual games on Linux are generally fine, but competitive games are not.

    Your notion that validation should be in the hands of game developers is misguided. If this were the case, it would mean that every game developer studio would need to be expert at that kind of security - a completely unreasonable thing to expect.

    It would also see most games not further develop their security.

    So no, passing this off to a third party isn't showing a lack of taking it seriously, it is showing an understanding that a company that specializes in this will always be better at it than a company that specializes in game development.

    You not liking it doesn't mean it isn't the best current method.

    As an aside, people not wanting kernel level access anti-cheat software on their computer (which includes me), have a single source of hope thst this may one day end. The problem is, many people won't like it.

    That single source is the simple fact that Microsoft don't want applications like EAC to have kernel access, and so are likely to work on other ways of providing that kind of surety.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Novacadian wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    RazThemun wrote: »
    Heck they could just do a poll in their discord; Asking who uses linux? Results would likely be less than 5% of the discord community.
    Steam Hardware Survey from last month still has less than 2% of Steam users (aka, PC gamers) as using Linux. There is no need for any further survey.

    That may be deceptive. My gaming laptop has a dual boot setup. Most of the gaming done is through Windows 10. This is not by preference but through need. So Steam may rate me outside of the 2% when my preference is 100% Linux. Just a thought.

    It may also be deceptive in the other direction.

    There absolutely are people that play a number of games that would opt to use windows if that were available to them - however the cheats they wish to use only work on Linux.
  • TheeJonesyBoyTheeJonesyBoy Member, Alpha Two
    Has anyone figured out the steam deck install route? I have gotten to install the EOC anticheat then it goes to repair or remove the launcher and clicking either or does nothing
  • ichihaifuichihaifu Member, Founder, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Has anyone figured out the steam deck install route? I have gotten to install the EOC anticheat then it goes to repair or remove the launcher and clicking either or does nothing

    There is another thread with efforts on going trying to solve the launcher puzzle, tune in to that one.
    Noaani wrote: »
    Which is why ever expecting game developers of competitive games to support Linux is not realistic.

    I mean, if you were developing a game that players would leave if there was a lot of cheating, would you support an additional 2% of players if doing so meant allowing your game to be used in an environment where you were basically helpless at stopping cheating?
    This is entirely platform irrelevant. Cheating will never cease to exist and it doesn't matter what platform and what client measures you take, unless you address it at the hosting end.

    The game services need to be responsible for validating player activity.
    Moving out of bounds? Track player coordinates and trigger a ban if they are out of bounds or too far above ground too long/too many times.
    Moving too fast? Same thing.
    Targeting through terrain? I think they already have triggers for this.
    Item duplication? Basic mathematics.
    Invulnerability? Monitor player health and combat states.

    List goes on and on, there is nearly no scenario an online game cannot account for and there are countless existing techniques employed in other games if the creativity runs dry.

    Clients are only good for keeping honest people honest. Its the same as a locked door. If there is a will, there is a way.

    The reason we are seeing cheating in online games (particularly mmo's) is because it is not profitable for the gaming companies to go after them too hard. Take world of warcraft for example, they are absolutely aware of all the cheating and botting going on and they could, with a press of a button, take care of it permanently and forever, but there is financial incentive to let the bots and cheaters keep going, so they do not. And they have no need for any kind of anti cheating systems on clients for that.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm on win10 and have no intention to upgrade to win11 even though i have the option...

    with win10 EOL 2025 I will at some point be making the switch to Linux.

    I have no plans to support Micro$oft anymore, either financially or through my personal data collection.

    Would appreciate if Ashes had official Linux support...which has been discussed and with enough interest Intrepid has considered it with enough support/interest

    Official Linux distribution would be great, but I will either dual boot and keep win10 beyond EOL
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