That is not them acknowledging anything that is you just looking at a feature and assuming based on personal or bias feelings. That is not backed by any kind of facts.
This is the reason they gave for it.
It is the reason they still give.
It would take me forever to find the video, of course, so you can take my word for it, or do your usual, but for data for those who track me, I watched BDO's community streams and design stuff and developer notes for a while to study.
This is absolutely one of the reasons for their 'whole single world' thing, and it's an explicit part of the game loop to 'change servers if you are not able to win at your PvE grindspot'. The idea being that you 'move around every time you lose until you find someone you can beat', because it lowers the 'pain point' ratio (and if you always win, move to the 'PvP' server where there is no 'Corruption' but 50% more loot, since you have 'earned' it by being the best).
Instead of the strongest player making 9 people have the all-loss experience, 9 people get the 'well, I beat someone' experience and only one gets the all-loss, if the 'intended flow' is followed (in the optimal case).
The paragraph directly above this is an extrapolation, not part of what they said. They only said the 'move around every time you lose to get other/fairer matches' part. It's pretty ingenious, as retention mechanics go, but it is still only about as effective as matchmaking is, which is to say, not very effective long term.
I explain the server swapping things above, except bringing corruption up. You don't need to pvp to win a spot you can just karma bomb until they leave. Though this gets into the other discussion about feeding players to mobs, etc.
But on surface level you can grind any spot without much worry, it just won't be optimal there isn't really a threat to pvp. They kill you a few times and leave or both you waste your time. Not to mention you get to attack them freely if they attack you, and if they kill you, there are tears to get up and attack them for "free".
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
Having shards is not them trying to stop people from leaving do to pvp, that is skipping over all other relevant design to just assume that. Them saying we have shards so people aren't forced to pvp in a shard, does not = them escaping pvp in another shard. You can shard hope all you want and there will be people around and you will still get pvp and same thing would happen. That doesn't make people quit the game.
What is important about the shards has to do that there is one server for everyone, meaning there is very limited grind spots. In order to ensure there is enough content for players and it is not over crowded it is a solution that has to be used. As well as keeping the community tighter together than splitting it based off servers.
For clarity this is not only untrue, it is very untrue.
It would take me too long to detail why, so as usual, I hate to have to make this post type, but I hope people can forgive me for not engaging with Mag7 on this matter in this way. The unfair allotment of time between the 'Here is the exact reason with references, design doc equivalents, and statistics" and "nuh uh!" is just not tenable.
Its ok we both have our ways and just generally won't come to an understanding with each other that is fine. I've tried in my way but some people don't mesh. You can believe what you want, and i will with mine and how i explained it and that is fine.
That is not them acknowledging anything that is you just looking at a feature and assuming based on personal or bias feelings. That is not backed by any kind of facts.
This is the reason they gave for it.
It is the reason they still give.
It would take me forever to find the video, of course, so you can take my word for it, or do your usual, but for data for those who track me, I watched BDO's community streams and design stuff and developer notes for a while to study.
This is absolutely one of the reasons for their 'whole single world' thing, and it's an explicit part of the game loop to 'change servers if you are not able to win at your PvE grindspot'. The idea being that you 'move around every time you lose until you find someone you can beat', because it lowers the 'pain point' ratio (and if you always win, move to the 'PvP' server where there is no 'Corruption' but 50% more loot, since you have 'earned' it by being the best).
Instead of the strongest player making 9 people have the all-loss experience, 9 people get the 'well, I beat someone' experience and only one gets the all-loss, if the 'intended flow' is followed (in the optimal case).
The paragraph directly above this is an extrapolation, not part of what they said. They only said the 'move around every time you lose to get other/fairer matches' part. It's pretty ingenious, as retention mechanics go, but it is still only about as effective as matchmaking is, which is to say, not very effective long term.
I explain the server swapping things above, except bringing corruption up. You don't need to pvp to win a spot you can just karma bomb until they leave. Though this gets into the other discussion about feeding players to mobs, etc.
But on surface level you can grind any spot without much worry, it just won't be optimal there isn't really a threat to pvp. They kill you a few times and leave or both you waste your time. Not to mention you get to attack them freely if they attack you, and if they kill you, there are tears to get up and attack them for "free".
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
Ok you should probably just go back to whatever it was you were trying to argue with Noaani about design now.
The entire reason I said anything was to clarify just this:
The Developers and Community Managers have said things that support Noaani's point both explicitly and implicitly, and counter the claim you are making, which is:
"This isn't why they designed it this way."
Whether or not it is working is subjective in some perspectives apparently (I did not expect this, but I accept it). The question is if they did it for that reason. The answer is yes.
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
We are not debating the quality of PvP in BDO here - the only reason we have for talking about it is that their server structure is the way it is in part to combat PvP players leaving games.
Pearl abyss didn't publish the game, that was kakao games
I didnt sat Pearl Abyss published BDO, I said the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
If you are going to get in to a discussion, you need to read the actual words people write.
no Pa didn't publish BDO. kakao games did. Though they made some deal around 3 years ago or such, hard to keep track but now they are publishing BDO themselves and they transitioned over.
People blamed kakao games and thought bdo would have less p2w with the change. Though it is hard to judge what it would have been like is Pa published from the start.
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
We are not debating the quality of PvP in BDO here - the only reason we have for talking about it is that their server structure is the way it is in part to combat PvP players leaving games.
I'm not I'm just stating a fact. If a player knows they will get attacked 3 times and the player has a high chance they will stop attacking it has a huge effect on player mind set with pvp. This isn't about quality it is just about that the system in place to prevent griefing. Swapping shards doesn't have you escape from pvp either, I don't view shards as a big way devs had a master plan or does not feel like a very strong point that that is them acknowledging players leaving from normal pvp over losing.
That is not them acknowledging anything that is you just looking at a feature and assuming based on personal or bias feelings. That is not backed by any kind of facts.
This is the reason they gave for it.
It is the reason they still give.
It would take me forever to find the video, of course, so you can take my word for it, or do your usual, but for data for those who track me, I watched BDO's community streams and design stuff and developer notes for a while to study.
This is absolutely one of the reasons for their 'whole single world' thing, and it's an explicit part of the game loop to 'change servers if you are not able to win at your PvE grindspot'. The idea being that you 'move around every time you lose until you find someone you can beat', because it lowers the 'pain point' ratio (and if you always win, move to the 'PvP' server where there is no 'Corruption' but 50% more loot, since you have 'earned' it by being the best).
Instead of the strongest player making 9 people have the all-loss experience, 9 people get the 'well, I beat someone' experience and only one gets the all-loss, if the 'intended flow' is followed (in the optimal case).
The paragraph directly above this is an extrapolation, not part of what they said. They only said the 'move around every time you lose to get other/fairer matches' part. It's pretty ingenious, as retention mechanics go, but it is still only about as effective as matchmaking is, which is to say, not very effective long term.
I explain the server swapping things above, except bringing corruption up. You don't need to pvp to win a spot you can just karma bomb until they leave. Though this gets into the other discussion about feeding players to mobs, etc.
But on surface level you can grind any spot without much worry, it just won't be optimal there isn't really a threat to pvp. They kill you a few times and leave or both you waste your time. Not to mention you get to attack them freely if they attack you, and if they kill you, there are tears to get up and attack them for "free".
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
Ok you should probably just go back to whatever it was you were trying to argue with Noaani about design now.
The entire reason I said anything was to clarify just this:
The Developers and Community Managers have said things that support Noaani's point both explicitly and implicitly, and counter the claim you are making, which is:
"This isn't why they designed it this way."
Whether or not it is working is subjective in some perspectives apparently (I did not expect this, but I accept it). The question is if they did it for that reason. The answer is yes.
You are free to link it so we can view it in context. Pa says a lot of things, also things can get lost in translation . For example their meaning was about a single player griefing not avoiding general pvp. Shard swapping does not avoid pvp, the main point of context is about doing so to avoid pvp.
(though im aware if you are in a dead grinding spot with lack of players and one shows up and kills you. You could shard swap and not get pvp'd. But a dead spot where no one goes shouldn't be used as the high bar or average experience)
That is not them acknowledging anything that is you just looking at a feature and assuming based on personal or bias feelings. That is not backed by any kind of facts.
This is the reason they gave for it.
It is the reason they still give.
It would take me forever to find the video, of course, so you can take my word for it, or do your usual, but for data for those who track me, I watched BDO's community streams and design stuff and developer notes for a while to study.
This is absolutely one of the reasons for their 'whole single world' thing, and it's an explicit part of the game loop to 'change servers if you are not able to win at your PvE grindspot'. The idea being that you 'move around every time you lose until you find someone you can beat', because it lowers the 'pain point' ratio (and if you always win, move to the 'PvP' server where there is no 'Corruption' but 50% more loot, since you have 'earned' it by being the best).
Instead of the strongest player making 9 people have the all-loss experience, 9 people get the 'well, I beat someone' experience and only one gets the all-loss, if the 'intended flow' is followed (in the optimal case).
The paragraph directly above this is an extrapolation, not part of what they said. They only said the 'move around every time you lose to get other/fairer matches' part. It's pretty ingenious, as retention mechanics go, but it is still only about as effective as matchmaking is, which is to say, not very effective long term.
I explain the server swapping things above, except bringing corruption up. You don't need to pvp to win a spot you can just karma bomb until they leave. Though this gets into the other discussion about feeding players to mobs, etc.
But on surface level you can grind any spot without much worry, it just won't be optimal there isn't really a threat to pvp. They kill you a few times and leave or both you waste your time. Not to mention you get to attack them freely if they attack you, and if they kill you, there are tears to get up and attack them for "free".
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
Ok you should probably just go back to whatever it was you were trying to argue with Noaani about design now.
The entire reason I said anything was to clarify just this:
The Developers and Community Managers have said things that support Noaani's point both explicitly and implicitly, and counter the claim you are making, which is:
"This isn't why they designed it this way."
Whether or not it is working is subjective in some perspectives apparently (I did not expect this, but I accept it). The question is if they did it for that reason. The answer is yes.
You are free to link it so we can view it in context. Pa says a lot of things, also things can get lost in translation . For example their meaning was about a single player griefing not avoiding general pvp. Shard swapping does not avoid pvp, the main point of context is about doing so to avoid pvp.
(though im aware if you are in a dead grinding spot with lack of players and one shows up and kills you. You could shard swap and not get pvp'd. But a dead spot where no one goes shouldn't be used as the high bar or average experience)
I have no doubt that even if I slogged through everything to find it, managed to pin it down, and linked it, you'd still just claim 'that's not really what they meant though'. Such is the deep and meaningful rapport we two have.
I'll do my usual and trust that at least some people know that I take my studies/data more seriously than you. Carry on.
That is not them acknowledging anything that is you just looking at a feature and assuming based on personal or bias feelings. That is not backed by any kind of facts.
This is the reason they gave for it.
It is the reason they still give.
It would take me forever to find the video, of course, so you can take my word for it, or do your usual, but for data for those who track me, I watched BDO's community streams and design stuff and developer notes for a while to study.
This is absolutely one of the reasons for their 'whole single world' thing, and it's an explicit part of the game loop to 'change servers if you are not able to win at your PvE grindspot'. The idea being that you 'move around every time you lose until you find someone you can beat', because it lowers the 'pain point' ratio (and if you always win, move to the 'PvP' server where there is no 'Corruption' but 50% more loot, since you have 'earned' it by being the best).
Instead of the strongest player making 9 people have the all-loss experience, 9 people get the 'well, I beat someone' experience and only one gets the all-loss, if the 'intended flow' is followed (in the optimal case).
The paragraph directly above this is an extrapolation, not part of what they said. They only said the 'move around every time you lose to get other/fairer matches' part. It's pretty ingenious, as retention mechanics go, but it is still only about as effective as matchmaking is, which is to say, not very effective long term.
I explain the server swapping things above, except bringing corruption up. You don't need to pvp to win a spot you can just karma bomb until they leave. Though this gets into the other discussion about feeding players to mobs, etc.
But on surface level you can grind any spot without much worry, it just won't be optimal there isn't really a threat to pvp. They kill you a few times and leave or both you waste your time. Not to mention you get to attack them freely if they attack you, and if they kill you, there are tears to get up and attack them for "free".
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
Ok you should probably just go back to whatever it was you were trying to argue with Noaani about design now.
The entire reason I said anything was to clarify just this:
The Developers and Community Managers have said things that support Noaani's point both explicitly and implicitly, and counter the claim you are making, which is:
"This isn't why they designed it this way."
Whether or not it is working is subjective in some perspectives apparently (I did not expect this, but I accept it). The question is if they did it for that reason. The answer is yes.
You are free to link it so we can view it in context. Pa says a lot of things, also things can get lost in translation . For example their meaning was about a single player griefing not avoiding general pvp. Shard swapping does not avoid pvp, the main point of context is about doing so to avoid pvp.
(though im aware if you are in a dead grinding spot with lack of players and one shows up and kills you. You could shard swap and not get pvp'd. But a dead spot where no one goes shouldn't be used as the high bar or average experience)
I have no doubt that even if I slogged through everything to find it, managed to pin it down, and linked it, you'd still just claim 'that's not really what they meant though'. Such is the deep and meaningful rapport we two have.
I'll do my usual and trust that at least some people know that I take my studies/data more seriously than you. Carry on.
The world we live in where we cant link an article and both look at it subjective from both points of view including you understanding mine and come to common ground.
Just my 3.5 cents. Shards is the dumbest thing ever and I hate them Also, if the location is popular enough to have pvping people on all shards - it means that someone will always be the loser and they'll either have to leave the location or leave the game. So, as was said by others, the system is pretty much purely for avoiding pvp.
If PA wanted to have everyone play together they wouldn't go for the shards approach. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how they work, shards literally put you in a separate "instance" of the game. You have other people in that instance, but you avoided people in the previous instance. It is literally instancing but for the whole damn game. And instances have always been used to let people avoid other people (and pvp they might produce).
Ashes is not going for shards exactly because they don't want to let people just run away from pvp.
Pearl abyss didn't publish the game, that was kakao games
I didnt sat Pearl Abyss published BDO, I said the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
If you are going to get in to a discussion, you need to read the actual words people write.
no Pa didn't publish BDO. kakao games did.
For actual fucks sake man.
I didnt say they published it, I said the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
Fucking read.
Pearl Abyss was founded by Kim Daeil and Youn Jaemin. Before founding Pearl Abyss, they worked in game publishing.
I did not once say that Pearl Abyss published BDO.
Again, fucking read.
I guess i must have missed that based on the direction of the conversation. But honestly what does that have to do with anything....what were their positions and responsibilities to say they have experience in publishing. As well as what did they do in publishing the games, how long had they been doing it for.
All of that is kind of pointless what matters is what pa did at that point being a new company, and they certainly didn't start publishing in the NA.
That point was vague to begin with and honestly doesn't do anything for the conversation and bound to miss things if I'm responding and working and i feel something isn't important to the discussion, like publishers when we are talking about shards
I literally said the people behind Peral Abyss had a background in publishing.
There is nothing vague in that at all. It is a direct, unobfuscated sentence.
As to what it does for the conversation - it was a point to illustrate that their expertise is in seeing player populations and changes in that first and foremost. The publisher of a game has a better understanding of what changes to a game do to the population of that game than the developer (assuming non-publishing developer) of a game understands.
I didn't bother pointing this out because honestly, anyone participating in a discussion like this should probably know that already. However, I would have been happy to point that out should someone not understand the actual secondary point that was being made.
At no point did I think someone would look at that as being of primary concern to the discussion, fully misunderstand the basic english, and run with it as a way of trying to point out that i may have been wrong - and then literally doubledown when I point out to them that the thing they thought I said is not the thing I said in plain english.
I literally said the people behind Peral Abyss had a background in publishing.
There is nothing vague in that at all. It is a direct, unobfuscated sentence.
As to what it does for the conversation - it was a point to illustrate that their expertise is in seeing player populations and changes in that first and foremost. The publisher of a game has a better understanding of what changes to a game do to the population of that game than the developer (assuming non-publishing developer) of a game understands.
I didn't bother pointing this out because honestly, anyone participating in a discussion like this should probably know that already. However, I would have been happy to point that out should someone not understand the actual secondary point that was being made.
At no point did I think someone would look at that as being of primary concern to the discussion, fully misunderstand the basic english, and run with it as a way of trying to point out that i may have been wrong - and then literally doubledown when I point out to them that the thing they thought I said is not the thing I said in plain english.
Again, you are tiring to deal with.
Yes the point is vague, based on the current topic. We are talking about the developers, not publishers and what they do. Which is not consistent between the different publishers. This again will derail into a whole other conversation about publish responsibilities and the differences between them is far and wide. I'd seriously question your understanding if you are assuming all publishers work the same, but I'd chalk it up to you looking for an escape as well.
The developer would be the ones that knows what changes are impacting things as they are the ones making it and the game not the publisher. (As much as im going to say if you go on about publishers I'm going to have to ignore that part)
This is normal for you where you attempt to over complicate the issue by adding other elements that are irrelevant to the discussion. The only reason you are being "tired" is because you are trying to rat your way out.
Swapping to shards does not prevent PvP. If people leave a game for pvp and the devs are trying to prevent players from pvping shards are not the purpose of that. Swapping to another shard will simply bring a new set of people sometimes more sometimes less that you have to deal with. They have one server rather than multiple since population would overcrowd spots.
If you want to say they are suggesting shards is there way of reducing pvp, link the article so i can see it in context. I don't want your version of context where you can adjust it to be convenient for you. If you can't provide proof of context you shouldn't be assuming what they are saying.
Having some form of insulated pve would be more than beneficial for Ashes. Players of all skill levels and time commitments need content and progression paths even if I don't like or engage with every single type of content.
Yes the point is vague, based on the current topic. We are talking about the developers, not publishers and what they do.
Aactually, we were talking about the fact that PvP players have a habit of leaving games faster than PvE players. Then I mentioned as a means to bak up that point that both Crowfall and BDO designed their games in an attempt to stifle this which you then spun off in to a tangent about how those games were shit for PvP (not the point), which while attempting to steer you back to the actual point I mentioned that the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
Any person with even a base knowledge of the gaming industry would know what that means. A game developers that isn't also a publisher knows how many people are playing a game - that is it. A publisher knows who is leaving a game.
When I played Arheage on Trions servers, I was not a customer of XL. I had no relationship with them at all in relation to that game at that time.
If a developer releases a patch to PvP and it results in a loss of players to the game, they will know it results in a loss of players. However, they won't know if those players were PvP or PvE players - a publisher will know this.
That is why it was worth mentioning (just mentioning - I expected the reader to extrapolate the above) that the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing. They saw patches going to games that were live, and saw in detail the effect this had on the games population.
Yes the point is vague, based on the current topic. We are talking about the developers, not publishers and what they do.
Aactually, we were talking about the fact that PvP players have a habit of leaving games faster than PvE players. Then I mentioned as a means to bak up that point that both Crowfall and BDO designed their games in an attempt to stifle this which you then spun off in to a tangent about how those games were shit for PvP (not the point), which while attempting to steer you back to the actual point I mentioned that the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
Any person with even a base knowledge of the gaming industry would know what that means. A game developers that isn't also a publisher knows how many people are playing a game - that is it. A publisher knows who is leaving a game.
When I played Arheage on Trions servers, I was not a customer of XL. I had no relationship with them at all in relation to that game at that time.
If a developer releases a patch to PvP and it results in a loss of players to the game, they will know it results in a loss of players. However, they won't know if those players were PvP or PvE players - a publisher will know this.
That is why it was worth mentioning (just mentioning - I expected the reader to extrapolate the above) that the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing. They saw patches going to games that were live, and saw in detail the effect this had on the games population.
I'm just going to point out this since you do these long winded answers and move away from the main point. This is your own qoute btw.
PvP requires players, yet players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP.
So actually we are talking about you saying pvp players leave if they are losing. Which lead into you saying they added shards for players...seriously read what you are saying you are the damn one who typed this.
So actually we are talking about you saying pvp players leave if they are losing. Which lead into you saying they added shards for players...seriously read what you are saying you are the damn one who typed this.
Actually, I detailed exatly what it is Pearl Abyss said they were trying to counteract with their server system.
It is more specific than the phenomenon of players losing and leaving - it is a subset of that group.
If you had have been reading the posts I am directing specifically to you, you would know that to be the case.
But as we all know, you argue without actually reading the posts of others in the discussion. You just sort of skim them looking for a collection of words that you think gives you something to argue against.
So actually we are talking about you saying pvp players leave if they are losing. Which lead into you saying they added shards for players...seriously read what you are saying you are the damn one who typed this.
Actually, I detailed exatly what it is Pearl Abyss said they were trying to counteract with their server system.
It is more specific than the phenomenon of players losing and leaving - it is a subset of that group.
If you had have been reading the posts I am directing specifically to you, you would know that to be the case.
But as we all know, you argue without actually reading the posts of others in the discussion. You just sort of skim them looking for a collection of words that you think gives you something to argue against.
Trying to derail again and avoid being called out. If you used basic reading skills and comprehension it was clearly stated in another thread if I'm not quoting someone it doesn't mean any certain post. I'm quoting exactly what you are saying there is a difference.
You have not outlined anything you are saying vague things on what you think which isn't fact, or you are trying to change context and are not sharing any articles that lead to what you are trying to do. You have a pattern of putting words in people mouth also even here it is clear. So i'll need to see the exact article on pa saying anything.
It is more specific than the phenomenon of players losing and leaving - it is a subset of that group.
Again this is subjective, if you are making your own subjective opinion that is fine you can think what you want. Either way the quote is in relation to you saying people leave because they lose in pvp. Anytime you get called out you try to move the goal post and try to make the conversation more confusing which has it spiral out of control.
Answer the question "Do you believe that a pvp player losing in pvp is a sole reason why people leave the game on a large scale. Yes or no?"
Trying to derail again and avoid being called out.
Literally everything you hve said since you first mistakenly assumed I said that Pearl Abyss published BDO has been you derailing the topic.
Now, I'm not against a derail at times - but don't you go accusing me of derailing a discussion you already derailed.
Answer the question "Do you believe that a pvp player losing in pvp is a sole reason why people leave the game on a large scale. Yes or no?"
Why the fuck would I answer such a leading question?
Why are we still talking about PA publishing when i already said i missed you meant the two members worked at some other company. Why are you seriously still going on about that what is the actual purpose.
Answer the question Yes or NO.
Again this is based off your own qoute
PvP requires players, yet players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP.
You are suggesting because people lose in pvp constantly they will quit the game.
Why are we still talking about PA publishing when i already said i missed you
This just reinforces my opinion that you dont understand how language works (is English your second language? honest question, it isnt necessarily spelling or anything that is the issue, just a seeming lack of understanding of how words work together).
Imagine you are looking at cars with a friend, and your friend says "look at that car over by that cherry tree!". You wouldnt turn to him and say "why are you talking about cherry trees? We are looking at cars".
This is because he was talking about a cat, and used the cherry tree as a reference so that you knew which car he was talking about.
Likewise, someone says something about a forum thread, and then uses a post or point in that thread as a reference point, that doesnt mean they are talking about that post or point.
In other words, me saying this thread has been derailed since you started talking about how Pearl Abyss didn't publish BDO is not me talking about that fact, it is me using that point in the thread as a reference point for you to understand what point in this thread I am talking about.
Answer the question Yes or NO.
The reason I am not going to answer that question as written is because you changed a few words from my statement that drastically alter the meaning of it.
For reference - what I said
players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP.
And the question you demanded I answer
Do you believe that a pvp player losing in pvp is a sole reason why people leave the game on a large scale. Yes or no?
I have bolded the words you used that drastically alter the meaning of the sentence.
Now, if you were to reword your question to something like "do you believe that players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP?", then my answer would be yes, that is why I said it.
Why are we still talking about PA publishing when i already said i missed you
This just reinforces my opinion that you dont understand how language works (is English your second language? honest question, it isnt necessarily spelling or anything that is the issue, just a seeming lack of understanding of how words work together).
Imagine you are looking at cars with a friend, and your friend says "look at that car over by that cherry tree!". You wouldnt turn to him and say "why are you talking about cherry trees? We are looking at cars".
This is because he was talking about a cat, and used the cherry tree as a reference so that you knew which car he was talking about.
Likewise, someone says something about a forum thread, and then uses a post or point in that thread as a reference point, that doesnt mean they are talking about that post or point.
In other words, me saying this thread has been derailed since you started talking about how Pearl Abyss didn't publish BDO is not me talking about that fact, it is me using that point in the thread as a reference point for you to understand what point in this thread I am talking about.
Answer the question Yes or NO.
The reason I am not going to answer that question as written is because you changed a few words from my statement that drastically alter the meaning of it.
For reference - what I said
players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP.
And the question you demanded I answer
Do you believe that a pvp player losing in pvp is a sole reason why people leave the game on a large scale. Yes or no?
I have bolded the words you used that drastically alter the meaning of the sentence.
Now, if you were to reword your question to something like "do you believe that players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP?", then my answer would be yes, that is why I said it.
You seriously don't' get it stop bringing up publishing like it has any merit here, I'm seriously questioning your ability to read and the task of publishers are vastly different from project to project and that is a complete derail that means absolutely nothing. Publishers are not always the developer of the game, the devs will know what is working and what isn't. This get more messy when you are talking about different publishers doing different roles. You need to check your own reading you are failing you are too busy trying to throw words in peoples mouth, you have eyes and a brain use them.
Again i need to question your reading comprehension it is kind of embarrassing but we can argue semantics for another page if that is really what you want.
do you believe that players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP?
Effectively you are suggesting that if a player is losing to PvP they will leave the game. (which is also sad because you are a pve player assuming you know what pvp players think)
My question is asking clearly that if you think you are losing to PvP that will be a sole reason why a player will leave the game (Based on your lack of reaching comprehension you are giving off the vibe you are assuming I'm saying "only" reason Because you are to busy trying to put words in peoples mouth and avoid answering question properly and running up an entire page where things could be said in a single post. But you choose to beat around the bush.)
You are literally out here arguing semantics do you not have better use of your time, so the answer to my question is "yes" Which honestly is a terrible take, if someone is in a game to pvp generally they aren't going to stop playing the game just because they lose fights constantly. It will make the wins they have even better and they will have motivation to grow and progress. The point they are at won't be there forever as they gain more gear, experience with their class and run into other people they will be able to beat. Though also why game design is important, if the game is not balanced or done well that can also cause issues and would be the result of people leaving more than anything.
Comments
I explain the server swapping things above, except bringing corruption up. You don't need to pvp to win a spot you can just karma bomb until they leave. Though this gets into the other discussion about feeding players to mobs, etc.
But on surface level you can grind any spot without much worry, it just won't be optimal there isn't really a threat to pvp. They kill you a few times and leave or both you waste your time. Not to mention you get to attack them freely if they attack you, and if they kill you, there are tears to get up and attack them for "free".
Long story short there is no reason to fight back in bdo they can pvp you so many times and have to leave eventually. When you die you respawn 2 feet where you were farming.
Its ok we both have our ways and just generally won't come to an understanding with each other that is fine. I've tried in my way but some people don't mesh. You can believe what you want, and i will with mine and how i explained it and that is fine.
If you are going to get in to a discussion, you need to read the actual words people write.
Ok you should probably just go back to whatever it was you were trying to argue with Noaani about design now.
The entire reason I said anything was to clarify just this:
The Developers and Community Managers have said things that support Noaani's point both explicitly and implicitly, and counter the claim you are making, which is:
"This isn't why they designed it this way."
Whether or not it is working is subjective in some perspectives apparently (I did not expect this, but I accept it). The question is if they did it for that reason. The answer is yes.
We are not debating the quality of PvP in BDO here - the only reason we have for talking about it is that their server structure is the way it is in part to combat PvP players leaving games.
no Pa didn't publish BDO. kakao games did. Though they made some deal around 3 years ago or such, hard to keep track but now they are publishing BDO themselves and they transitioned over.
People blamed kakao games and thought bdo would have less p2w with the change. Though it is hard to judge what it would have been like is Pa published from the start.
I'm not I'm just stating a fact. If a player knows they will get attacked 3 times and the player has a high chance they will stop attacking it has a huge effect on player mind set with pvp. This isn't about quality it is just about that the system in place to prevent griefing. Swapping shards doesn't have you escape from pvp either, I don't view shards as a big way devs had a master plan or does not feel like a very strong point that that is them acknowledging players leaving from normal pvp over losing.
You are free to link it so we can view it in context. Pa says a lot of things, also things can get lost in translation . For example their meaning was about a single player griefing not avoiding general pvp. Shard swapping does not avoid pvp, the main point of context is about doing so to avoid pvp.
(though im aware if you are in a dead grinding spot with lack of players and one shows up and kills you. You could shard swap and not get pvp'd. But a dead spot where no one goes shouldn't be used as the high bar or average experience)
I have no doubt that even if I slogged through everything to find it, managed to pin it down, and linked it, you'd still just claim 'that's not really what they meant though'. Such is the deep and meaningful rapport we two have.
I'll do my usual and trust that at least some people know that I take my studies/data more seriously than you. Carry on.
The world we live in where we cant link an article and both look at it subjective from both points of view including you understanding mine and come to common ground.
If PA wanted to have everyone play together they wouldn't go for the shards approach. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how they work, shards literally put you in a separate "instance" of the game. You have other people in that instance, but you avoided people in the previous instance. It is literally instancing but for the whole damn game. And instances have always been used to let people avoid other people (and pvp they might produce).
Ashes is not going for shards exactly because they don't want to let people just run away from pvp.
I didnt say they published it, I said the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
Fucking read.
Pearl Abyss was founded by Kim Daeil and Youn Jaemin. Before founding Pearl Abyss, they worked in game publishing.
I did not once say that Pearl Abyss published BDO.
Again, fucking read.
I guess i must have missed that based on the direction of the conversation. But honestly what does that have to do with anything....what were their positions and responsibilities to say they have experience in publishing. As well as what did they do in publishing the games, how long had they been doing it for.
All of that is kind of pointless what matters is what pa did at that point being a new company, and they certainly didn't start publishing in the NA.
That point was vague to begin with and honestly doesn't do anything for the conversation and bound to miss things if I'm responding and working and i feel something isn't important to the discussion, like publishers when we are talking about shards
I literally said the people behind Peral Abyss had a background in publishing.
There is nothing vague in that at all. It is a direct, unobfuscated sentence.
As to what it does for the conversation - it was a point to illustrate that their expertise is in seeing player populations and changes in that first and foremost. The publisher of a game has a better understanding of what changes to a game do to the population of that game than the developer (assuming non-publishing developer) of a game understands.
I didn't bother pointing this out because honestly, anyone participating in a discussion like this should probably know that already. However, I would have been happy to point that out should someone not understand the actual secondary point that was being made.
At no point did I think someone would look at that as being of primary concern to the discussion, fully misunderstand the basic english, and run with it as a way of trying to point out that i may have been wrong - and then literally doubledown when I point out to them that the thing they thought I said is not the thing I said in plain english.
Again, you are tiring to deal with.
Yes the point is vague, based on the current topic. We are talking about the developers, not publishers and what they do. Which is not consistent between the different publishers. This again will derail into a whole other conversation about publish responsibilities and the differences between them is far and wide. I'd seriously question your understanding if you are assuming all publishers work the same, but I'd chalk it up to you looking for an escape as well.
The developer would be the ones that knows what changes are impacting things as they are the ones making it and the game not the publisher. (As much as im going to say if you go on about publishers I'm going to have to ignore that part)
This is normal for you where you attempt to over complicate the issue by adding other elements that are irrelevant to the discussion. The only reason you are being "tired" is because you are trying to rat your way out.
Swapping to shards does not prevent PvP. If people leave a game for pvp and the devs are trying to prevent players from pvping shards are not the purpose of that. Swapping to another shard will simply bring a new set of people sometimes more sometimes less that you have to deal with. They have one server rather than multiple since population would overcrowd spots.
If you want to say they are suggesting shards is there way of reducing pvp, link the article so i can see it in context. I don't want your version of context where you can adjust it to be convenient for you. If you can't provide proof of context you shouldn't be assuming what they are saying.
Aactually, we were talking about the fact that PvP players have a habit of leaving games faster than PvE players. Then I mentioned as a means to bak up that point that both Crowfall and BDO designed their games in an attempt to stifle this which you then spun off in to a tangent about how those games were shit for PvP (not the point), which while attempting to steer you back to the actual point I mentioned that the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing.
Any person with even a base knowledge of the gaming industry would know what that means. A game developers that isn't also a publisher knows how many people are playing a game - that is it. A publisher knows who is leaving a game.
When I played Arheage on Trions servers, I was not a customer of XL. I had no relationship with them at all in relation to that game at that time.
If a developer releases a patch to PvP and it results in a loss of players to the game, they will know it results in a loss of players. However, they won't know if those players were PvP or PvE players - a publisher will know this.
That is why it was worth mentioning (just mentioning - I expected the reader to extrapolate the above) that the people behind Pearl Abyss had a background in publishing. They saw patches going to games that were live, and saw in detail the effect this had on the games population.
I'm just going to point out this since you do these long winded answers and move away from the main point. This is your own qoute btw.
So actually we are talking about you saying pvp players leave if they are losing. Which lead into you saying they added shards for players...seriously read what you are saying you are the damn one who typed this.
It is more specific than the phenomenon of players losing and leaving - it is a subset of that group.
If you had have been reading the posts I am directing specifically to you, you would know that to be the case.
But as we all know, you argue without actually reading the posts of others in the discussion. You just sort of skim them looking for a collection of words that you think gives you something to argue against.
Trying to derail again and avoid being called out. If you used basic reading skills and comprehension it was clearly stated in another thread if I'm not quoting someone it doesn't mean any certain post. I'm quoting exactly what you are saying there is a difference.
You have not outlined anything you are saying vague things on what you think which isn't fact, or you are trying to change context and are not sharing any articles that lead to what you are trying to do. You have a pattern of putting words in people mouth also even here it is clear. So i'll need to see the exact article on pa saying anything.
Again this is subjective, if you are making your own subjective opinion that is fine you can think what you want. Either way the quote is in relation to you saying people leave because they lose in pvp. Anytime you get called out you try to move the goal post and try to make the conversation more confusing which has it spiral out of control.
Answer the question "Do you believe that a pvp player losing in pvp is a sole reason why people leave the game on a large scale. Yes or no?"
Now, I'm not against a derail at times - but don't you go accusing me of derailing a discussion you already derailed.
Why the fuck would I answer such a leading question?
That'll fill my Bingo card!
Why are we still talking about PA publishing when i already said i missed you meant the two members worked at some other company. Why are you seriously still going on about that what is the actual purpose.
Answer the question Yes or NO.
Again this is based off your own qoute
You are suggesting because people lose in pvp constantly they will quit the game.
Imagine you are looking at cars with a friend, and your friend says "look at that car over by that cherry tree!". You wouldnt turn to him and say "why are you talking about cherry trees? We are looking at cars".
This is because he was talking about a cat, and used the cherry tree as a reference so that you knew which car he was talking about.
Likewise, someone says something about a forum thread, and then uses a post or point in that thread as a reference point, that doesnt mean they are talking about that post or point.
In other words, me saying this thread has been derailed since you started talking about how Pearl Abyss didn't publish BDO is not me talking about that fact, it is me using that point in the thread as a reference point for you to understand what point in this thread I am talking about. The reason I am not going to answer that question as written is because you changed a few words from my statement that drastically alter the meaning of it.
For reference - what I said
And the question you demanded I answer I have bolded the words you used that drastically alter the meaning of the sentence.
Now, if you were to reword your question to something like "do you believe that players that are in a game specifically for PvP will often leave a game if they are constantly losing at PvP?", then my answer would be yes, that is why I said it.
You seriously don't' get it stop bringing up publishing like it has any merit here, I'm seriously questioning your ability to read and the task of publishers are vastly different from project to project and that is a complete derail that means absolutely nothing. Publishers are not always the developer of the game, the devs will know what is working and what isn't. This get more messy when you are talking about different publishers doing different roles. You need to check your own reading you are failing you are too busy trying to throw words in peoples mouth, you have eyes and a brain use them.
Again i need to question your reading comprehension it is kind of embarrassing but we can argue semantics for another page if that is really what you want.
Effectively you are suggesting that if a player is losing to PvP they will leave the game. (which is also sad because you are a pve player assuming you know what pvp players think)
My question is asking clearly that if you think you are losing to PvP that will be a sole reason why a player will leave the game (Based on your lack of reaching comprehension you are giving off the vibe you are assuming I'm saying "only" reason Because you are to busy trying to put words in peoples mouth and avoid answering question properly and running up an entire page where things could be said in a single post. But you choose to beat around the bush.)
You are literally out here arguing semantics do you not have better use of your time, so the answer to my question is "yes" Which honestly is a terrible take, if someone is in a game to pvp generally they aren't going to stop playing the game just because they lose fights constantly. It will make the wins they have even better and they will have motivation to grow and progress. The point they are at won't be there forever as they gain more gear, experience with their class and run into other people they will be able to beat. Though also why game design is important, if the game is not balanced or done well that can also cause issues and would be the result of people leaving more than anything.
Why are you bringing up publishing here? Stop bringing it up! You dont get it!
Lets just move on and try to be more positive discussion wise in one thread, two is getting too much.
Lol. The inevitable capitulation. Hate to say it Mag, you had no chance from the start.
Noaani will text wall you into the ground. Nice try though, your fight was impressive. (note: I didn't actually read it, tbh).
I'm pretty sure 20% of his post are towards me tbh xD