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RMT incentives from the Freehold system - $140M

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Comments

  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    dnn_ wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economy.
    I don't think there is enough evidence to make this claim.

    It is the default setting, we would need evidence to assume otherwise.

    Default would be nodes actually, everyone has access to this that will be the primary means players interact with the economy. Those will be the trading hubs and where people will move materials around by default.
    Liniker wrote: »
    dnn_ wrote: »
    I don't think there is enough evidence to make this claim.
    Like a lot of things Noaani says, it's just his made-up arguments that are not supported by anything intrepid puts out.

    Intrepid have said in the past that freehold access will be one of the main means by which they limit player production.

    In order for freehold access to be a limit to player production, freeholds need to be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    If the main means by which players interact with the games economic system is in fact within the node system, then limiting freeholds can not have the effect Intrepid want.

    So, rather than me making up my arguments - as you suggest @Liniker - I am simply putting more thought in to my arguments than you ever put in to yours.

    This is why your view point is skewed, you only see things from your perspective which makes you miss the reality. Just because something allows you to make the best mats does not mean that is default.

    Default is what the thing most people will be doing normally, if you need T3 mats to make T4 and t5 t3 and below is something people will always be using and making. Just because something needs rare mats doesn't mean it is by default what is the main thing that people are crafting. Its limited nature makes it not the norm to begin with as well.

    As usual you don't look at the soul, you simply just see what is the best without any actual logic behind it.

    Also you have put 0 thought int it, you are jus saying tis the best mats so it is default. To me that is brain dead.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    dnn_ wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economy.
    I don't think there is enough evidence to make this claim.

    It is the default setting, we would need evidence to assume otherwise.

    Default would be nodes actually, everyone has access to this that will be the primary means players interact with the economy. Those will be the trading hubs and where people will move materials around by default.
    Liniker wrote: »
    dnn_ wrote: »
    I don't think there is enough evidence to make this claim.
    Like a lot of things Noaani says, it's just his made-up arguments that are not supported by anything intrepid puts out.

    Intrepid have said in the past that freehold access will be one of the main means by which they limit player production.

    In order for freehold access to be a limit to player production, freeholds need to be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    If the main means by which players interact with the games economic system is in fact within the node system, then limiting freeholds can not have the effect Intrepid want.

    So, rather than me making up my arguments - as you suggest @Liniker - I am simply putting more thought in to my arguments than you ever put in to yours.

    This is why your view point is skewed, you only see things from your perspective which makes you miss the reality. Just because something allows you to make the best mats does not mean that is default.

    Default is what the thing most people will be doing normally, if you need T3 mats to make T4 and t5 t3 and below is something people will always be using and making.

    It's funny, you complain that I keep putting words in others mouths, yet you completely fail to register what you do.

    I said I think freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    When questioned, I explained that this thinking was the default - as in it is the most logical assumption to make unless or until we hear otherwise.

    I did not once say freeholds would be the default means by which players would interact with the games economy.

    About the only thing you can say I dis in this regard is not correct you sooner, which j did simply to see if you would actually notice that you have - once again - been claiming someone said something they did not say.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    dnn_ wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economy.
    I don't think there is enough evidence to make this claim.

    It is the default setting, we would need evidence to assume otherwise.

    Default would be nodes actually, everyone has access to this that will be the primary means players interact with the economy. Those will be the trading hubs and where people will move materials around by default.
    Liniker wrote: »
    dnn_ wrote: »
    I don't think there is enough evidence to make this claim.
    Like a lot of things Noaani says, it's just his made-up arguments that are not supported by anything intrepid puts out.

    Intrepid have said in the past that freehold access will be one of the main means by which they limit player production.

    In order for freehold access to be a limit to player production, freeholds need to be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    If the main means by which players interact with the games economic system is in fact within the node system, then limiting freeholds can not have the effect Intrepid want.

    So, rather than me making up my arguments - as you suggest @Liniker - I am simply putting more thought in to my arguments than you ever put in to yours.

    This is why your view point is skewed, you only see things from your perspective which makes you miss the reality. Just because something allows you to make the best mats does not mean that is default.

    Default is what the thing most people will be doing normally, if you need T3 mats to make T4 and t5 t3 and below is something people will always be using and making.

    It's funny, you complain that I keep putting words in others mouths, yet you completely fail to register what you do.

    I said I think freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    When questioned, I explained that this thinking was the default - as in it is the most logical assumption to make unless or until we hear otherwise.

    I did not once say freeholds would be the default means by which players would interact with the games economy.

    About the only thing you can say I dis in this regard is not correct you sooner, which j did simply to see if you would actually notice that you have - once again - been claiming someone said something they did not say.

    Why do you still not understand....I laid it out for you pretty basically if you played game like this you would understand....

    No one is putting words in your mouth, I'm talking about your own words. Effectively you are trying to put words in my mouth and make me assuming something I'm not talking about. When i said default I'm not talking about where you start.... I'm talking about what most people will be using, I'm talking about materials that are made and the importance of them regardless of higher tiers.

    Whatever material is used primary the most is the default which will be effecting the economy. For your train of thought you need to be thinking

    1. IS will not make a good economy and all lower level processing will be pointless and worth nothing.
    2. Lower level process mats will not be used to make t4-5 mats
    3. T4-5 mats will be made quickly to meet demand of it commonly being used by players.


    I could get into details on those but I'm not, but those are pretty big red flags. I'd recommend reading the wiki so you can better understand their direction answering some of those flags.
  • KLC_RocsekKLC_Rocsek Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Endowed wrote: »
    Furthermore... I/you can give my gold (or gear or resources) to anyone I want, without fear of them or me getting banned. That is ludicrous.

    Yes you can. But you can't accept gold/items from 10 or 20 other people then immediately give all that away to some random, then do the same thing again over and over. This is typically how company's that farm gold/items for RMT work, and will be how they are zeroed in on. I'm guessing by the way Steven talks it'll be so much more in-depth.
    Kaos & Lace Cartel
    "Come join us as you wont like the taste of the Grapefruits we're throwing at our enemies."

    "Never settle for what you think you know" - C. Krauthammer
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When i said default I'm not talking about where you start.... I'm talking about what most people will be using, I'm talking about materials that are made and the importance of them regardless of higher tiers.
    You are completely off track and I don't even know why.

    Here's what happened in this thread.

    I said the freehold will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    Someone else said they don't think there is any evidence to support this position.

    I said that this position is the default, and evidence would be needed to shift from that position.

    You then quoted me saying the above and nonsensically said the defaut would be nodes.

    I then ignored that mistake from you, and quoted you and Liniker in a post to explain my reasoning for thinking the freehold will be the primary means for interaction with the games economic system.

    You then doubled down on talking about "default". Something that only you are talking about. Anything at all with the word "default" is just you misunderstanding the conversation.

    The thing is, you often misunderstand the conversation, because you argue without reading.

    So, I don't know or care what the detault material will be. That isn't a point I am making, have made or care to argue about.

    That is just you arguing with yourself, my dude.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When i said default I'm not talking about where you start.... I'm talking about what most people will be using, I'm talking about materials that are made and the importance of them regardless of higher tiers.
    You are completely off track and I don't even know why.

    Here's what happened in this thread.

    I said the freehold will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    Someone else said they don't think there is any evidence to support this position.

    I said that this position is the default, and evidence would be needed to shift from that position.

    You then quoted me saying the above and nonsensically said the defaut would be nodes.

    I then ignored that mistake from you, and quoted you and Liniker in a post to explain my reasoning for thinking the freehold will be the primary means for interaction with the games economic system.

    You then doubled down on talking about "default". Something that only you are talking about. Anything at all with the word "default" is just you misunderstanding the conversation.

    The thing is, you often misunderstand the conversation, because you argue without reading.

    So, I don't know or care what the detault material will be. That isn't a point I am making, have made or care to argue about.

    That is just you arguing with yourself, my dude.


    Freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economy.

    You are lost in your own plot, I explained to you why this reply is incorrect. Freeholds is not the primary means and default way you interact with the games economy. The points I mention are the reasoning.

    You just got no way out of this and you refuse to back down from any of your statements.

    If you are confused the the other elements I'm bringing up please don't talk about the game economy, as everything is linked together.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    noa and mag sitting on a tree...

    istg u2 r gonna get married xD
  • SpifSpif Member, Alpha Two
    There are some simple changes they can make so that RMT would have a tough time dealing freeholds:
    • A node-specific reputation score is required to buy a freehold in that node.
    • This rep can only be gotten at 50, is gained from various activities that are hopefully hard to bot and is time-gated
    • You can only gain this rep in one node at a time, and starting in a different node wipes it out in any other nodes.
    • Once you sell a freehold you can't buy another in that node for a year

    This will make it hard for any small set of characters to be buying/selling freeholds over and over in a real-estate-mogul kind of way. Rather, a player would say to himself "I want a freehold in node #42. I'll grind out the rep and quest there, then see what comes up". Possibly followed by "Oh crap, this node sucks. Time to grind rep in node 33"

    I'm not saying it'll be impossible for RMT to do this, but hopefully the effort becomes too much for profit. It might only be worthwhile in the 5 top nodes.

    I'm not sure why the OP is assuming that RMT is going to be involved in every freehold transaction though. Power-gamer guilds are going to get and keep the first (best?) freeholds. Then sweaty groups of friends. Then crafting focused players, then ???
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    When i said default I'm not talking about where you start.... I'm talking about what most people will be using, I'm talking about materials that are made and the importance of them regardless of higher tiers.
    You are completely off track and I don't even know why.

    Here's what happened in this thread.

    I said the freehold will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economic system.

    Someone else said they don't think there is any evidence to support this position.

    I said that this position is the default, and evidence would be needed to shift from that position.

    You then quoted me saying the above and nonsensically said the defaut would be nodes.

    I then ignored that mistake from you, and quoted you and Liniker in a post to explain my reasoning for thinking the freehold will be the primary means for interaction with the games economic system.

    You then doubled down on talking about "default". Something that only you are talking about. Anything at all with the word "default" is just you misunderstanding the conversation.

    The thing is, you often misunderstand the conversation, because you argue without reading.

    So, I don't know or care what the detault material will be. That isn't a point I am making, have made or care to argue about.

    That is just you arguing with yourself, my dude.


    Freeholds will be the primary means by which players interact with the games economy.

    You are lost in your own plot, I explained to you why this reply is incorrect. Freeholds is not the primary means and default way you interact with the games economy. The points I mention are the reasoning.

    You just got no way out of this and you refuse to back down from any of your statements.

    If you are confused the the other elements I'm bringing up please don't talk about the game economy, as everything is linked together.

    Yes, I said primary, I didnt say default.

    I never said I didn't say primary, in fact, if you note, you'll see that I in fact said that I said primary, and the issue was you using default.

    Primary and default are not the same.

    Now, obviously freeholds wont be the default, they cant. They will, however, be the primary. People with access to a freehold are not going to be engaging with the games economy all that much outside of the freehold they have access to.

    Sure, we know processing too tier materials needs a freehold, but there also needs to be similar value advantage to other aspects of freeholds. There needs to be an advantage to crafting on your freehold, an advantage to animal husbandry, an advantage to growing plants.

    We dont know what these advantages will be, but those of us that are thinking about this KNOW that such advantages need to be in place.
  • JhorenJhoren Member
    edited July 2023
    Leaning into node-specific reputation or currency would be a way to mitigate several issues, including both RMT and acquisition related ones. Especially if it really is node-specific and not node-type specific.
    Spif wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the OP is assuming that RMT is going to be involved in every freehold transaction though. Power-gamer guilds are going to get and keep the first (best?) freeholds. Then sweaty groups of friends. Then crafting focused players, then ???

    The OP isn't doing that as I see it. It even says that regular players will grab a lot of freeholds at first. You have to know the difference between market potential and market share though. The OP is about market potential. The RMT farmers will be competing right alongside the power-gamer guilds for the best freehold spots early on, and they would be much more singularly focused on getting gold and such.

    With that said, there is no doubt in my mind that regular players will be trying to sell freeholds for real money too. Especially if they are leaving the game anyway. Just because it isn't done by a company doesn't mean it isn't also RMT. In fact, some players in other MMOs sell the accounts or their stuff to the RMT companies because that's easier, even if the price they get is quite a bit lower.
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