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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Flagged for PVP - How long does it last?
Abarat
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Lets say I am out looking for things to mine. I am a miner. I mine things.
I see a player whacking on a rock i want to mine myself and go over and attack them.
They do not fight back. I decide I would rather not go red and leave the area. How long am I flagged as a combatant?
Do we know?
I see a player whacking on a rock i want to mine myself and go over and attack them.
They do not fight back. I decide I would rather not go red and leave the area. How long am I flagged as a combatant?
Do we know?
0
Comments
*from their most recent attack
That wiki is huge with layers on top of layers. We don’t deserve Lex.
Yeah it might be. I do personally think it’s a decent jumping off point. 90 seconds can feel pretty long in game.
I am not opposed to that.
I feel like it’s fair to run around as a combatant to show that I’m down for some pvps, in exchange for reduced death penalties.
Greens can tell that maybe they should be more concerned about me, purples know that I’m down for a scuffle. Win win.
I would keep the force attack method too.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging
My expectation is that it will be increased to closer to 150 seconds, perhaps 180.
The issue with players being able to flag themselves is it increases the understanding players will have of whether someone is likely to fight back or not (which I gather is the reason you want it), but in turn this will drastically impact the corruption system. Steven has talked about this in the past.
The thing to remember with the corruption system is that Intrepid will want to maintain a minimum number of players gaining corruption. This is why the system has the levers that it has. If players can just look and see (even partially) who is definately going to fight back and who may not fight back, then corruption gain will be altered in unpredicable ways.
That isn't to say it may not change, but that was the reasoning given back in like 2018 or something.
You would need to change the systems in place to do that. Currently a green doesn’t flag if they are attacking someone who is corrupt.
Since there’s currently no manual flagging, every time you even attempt to feel out some PvP with someone you would incur stat dampening, and 400% death penalties.
Here is a video explaining the system AoC will use for open world PvP.
The flagging/corruption system is there to protect:
Questing
Leveling
Exploring
Economy
from senseless killing of players.
This system is taken from Lineage 2, an mmo in which Steven was an alliance leader. Watch and learn how players will fight other players in the open world. This system isn't relevant for guild wars, sieges, caravans and the open seas.
Focus your feedback on other stuff.
Does the 90s increase if you attack someone else in that time or does that time just reset back to 90s?
My guess is manual flagging would turn out like NW where most people don't bother flagging for pvp at all.
Apparently, everyone loves open world pvp, but when given a choice, the majority choose not to engage.
So if, as a green, I see a Purple player, can I attack them without the forced attack or having my skills checked? I know it will flag me, but just don't know if the forced attack is needed? I'm guessing not?
My understanding is that you do still need to force attack.
This is because if it is not needed, someone could walk up to an AoE based class killing mobs and essentially force them to flag by walking in to an AoE.
Yeah, it's funny how this is the case.
People love the idea of PvP, they love PvP when they want it (this is me), but most people primarily just want to get on doing the thing they want to be doing.
It seemed like reading the Wiki that Corrupt players are free to be attacked by anyone.
I definitely expect most greens to attack any and all PKers as soon as they see them, cause that's a juicy loot piñata.
Yes, and there are people still begging for a pvp zone in NW. As I see it, a pvp zone in that game would be a dead zone after the initial buzz had died.
Pure pvpers love the idea of always-on pvp because that's their primary drive, but I feel most people prefer motive and purpose behind pvp, other than a blood thirsty desire to kill everything controlled by a real pulse.
In Ashes, I would hope, as a green player, pvpers would see that I'm not worth bothering with and go and seek bigger fish.
Basically, like the real world. I will be aware of the danger, but on the whole, feel safe most of the time, unless I also wish to engage in pvp.
Even in NW, in the throes of battle in OPR pvp, I've encountered players that will stop attacking or not attack at all when they see I'm not willing to engage, for whatever reason.
I've also had players chase me down like an animal across the map, knowing full well I was weaker, just for the kill.
Pvp with honour and self-control, especially if pvp is on by default, is a great feeling. Knowing someone could attack/kill you at any time, but chooses not to because the gains aren't worth it, is the height of maturity and earns my total respect.
If pvp in Ashes turns out to be like this, a mixture of strategy, tactic, and restraint where appropriate, it would definitely pull me in because I'd feel like I could enjoy the pve, but still be part of the rush of pvp, too.
Yeah “don’t understand” was a bit of an exaggeration. I’ve spiraled down this curiosity before. I really mean “I personally believe that being able to manually flag, while also allowing you to still attack unflagged players will promote more consensual pvp, while potentially further limiting the amount of non consensual pvp”.
As in previous times this discussion has come up, Noaani is correct though that it would most likely create a mentality that would further limit how often people do go corrupted, and/or artificially segment the player base
I didn’t play much NW but if I’m remembering correctly its flagging system works like WoW does now where you can only engaged with other flagged people correct?
At the time WoW was moving away from PvP servers and switching all servers to the flagged version, I brought up many points about how this exact thing would happen. I was of course told things like “no way there’s like this minor benefit to flagging, people will totally still do it”
WoWs owpvp was already pretty meaningless, and when you tack on the minuscule benefits of flagging up, with a player base that already leaned towards owpvp adverse due to straight up trauma the faction style no consequence pvp could cause, with the negative of putting a target on your back, very few were gonna flag up.
Flagged consensual only PvP builds bad owpvp habits when you’re surrounded by people that don’t want to be put at a disadvantage. People will then tend to only flag up when they feel like they have an advantage more often than not, and you don’t want to flag up so you’re not at a disadvantage, and then no one flags up.
what if i know you will attack me first because you have been griefing me for a while and maybe killed me a couple of times, then I attack you first to see if i can win the fight this time. now, I gain corruption, now im red and you can cc me but i cant cc you. you hit back stun me and kill me. I drop all my gear because of the tiny bit of corruption that you are suggesting.
do you think this is fair? great idea genius.
That said, if you are going to give a scenario, think it through better.
If someone had attacked you a couple of times in this scenario, they would have corruption. If you think that you gaining corruption would result in you being killed and dropping all your gear, wouldn't that have happened to that other player first?
Again, not saying it's a good idea, but your scenario here doesn't work.
I can easily imagine a chain of adjustments where it became the chosen option. Internal testing of naval combat showed that to be interesting, a bigger ocean was required for ships to manoeuvre. With more space players would de-flag too easily or too frequently in naval battle and it was messing something with CC immunity or naval skills. To keep the de-flag timer consistent, it was decided instead to make the open sea a "purple zone". Upping the risks lead to upping the rewards.
I repeat, just one way I imagine the reasoning. Everything completely pulled out of my a... well, you know how the saying goes.