Ashes of Creation HAS NEVER PIVOTED from its CORE DESIGN!

Ayeveegaming1

Great video documenting this:

https://youtu.be/x38RLluHpBs

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Ayeveegaming1

Dygz wrote: »

Ravicus wrote: »

Taken directly from the Ashes of Creation Kickstarter page under Risks and Challenges:
"We also may find that certain systems or mechanics that we're talking about today simply aren't fun or good for the health of the game. In those cases, be aware that the game may change in fundamental ways as we work through feedback, testing, and polish. The vision will always remain the same, but how we get there might not." https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios/description

So.... There have been fundamental changes or there haven't been fundamental changes?

IMO there has not been fundemental changes to the CORE pillars. There has been changes within the game design that had to be made. The overall design is the same (the core)

Dygz

Haha.... Okay.....

Toothpaste

DrDefault wrote: »

>Only the top 10% of the playerbase can have a freehold, regardless of how much effort you put into trying to get one.

LOL you have some serious delusion and are putting words in his mouth. Steven has never said that.

DrDefault wrote: »

The reality is that the freehold development has went from:

They made freeholds an RNG based gamble, where you have to compete against large guilds, and looking at guild halls, it's quite obvious that the direction they're going for with freeholds is to be something more oriented towards guilds and no longer is it about time, effort, and hard work. It's about numbers, it's about who can recruit the most people and dominate that specific area in the game.

This i can agree with. They need to make more of a distinction between freeholds and Guild Halls. And yes, you understand the game mechanics. In order to keep your valuables you will have to make alliances, you are actually going to have to play with people because this is not a single player game.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Holy shit, a YouTuber with a subscriber count in the FOUR digits said a thing. That thing must be true!

In today's lesson we learned that before listening to what someone has to say you need to look at their sub count

FOUR digits!

if the first thing you came up to discredit someone is how much followers they have.... that's says a lot about you and your arguments

Ad hominem at its finest

Fantmx

GirlsFistinGuys wrote: »

DrDefault wrote: »

>Only the top 10% of the playerbase can have a freehold, regardless of how much effort you put into trying to get one.

LOL you have some serious delusion and are putting words in his mouth. Steven has never said that.

DrDefault wrote: »

The reality is that the freehold development has went from:

They made freeholds an RNG based gamble, where you have to compete against large guilds, and looking at guild halls, it's quite obvious that the direction they're going for with freeholds is to be something more oriented towards guilds and no longer is it about time, effort, and hard work. It's about numbers, it's about who can recruit the most people and dominate that specific area in the game.

This i can agree with. They need to make more of a distinction between freeholds and Guild Halls. And yes, you understand the game mechanics. In order to keep your valuables you will have to make alliances, you are actually going to have to play with people because this is not a single player game.

The number is based on total nodes and by extension total of freeholds likely available divided by their expected 50k server pop. Of course it could change but that is what we have to go on.

It is somewhat incorrect when you add in the ability to have family use your freehold.

Toothpaste

Dygz wrote: »

GirlsFistinGuys wrote: »

The answer Steven gives to both you and DYGZ sounds like getting a freehold solo will be an extremely hard and rare accomplishment. Solo players can't expect to be the first ones to own a freehold. You can still farm and process on your in-node housing. I'm sure that will be a much easier accomplishment for a solo player, especially one who only has 2 hours a day to play. And i think yall are taking the, "10%" comment too literally. Players/guilds will lose their freeholds as the game/player environment evolves. As Nodes tier-up more freeholds become available. It might take a solo player months to farm the gold/certificates/minor resources/lords quest. Steven didn't pull a fast one on yall, he gave a vague number and yall ran with it in the worse way.

Fantm says another change is that originally players had to be a Citizen of a Node before acquiring a Freehold/plot and that is no longer the case.

Cool, and I wouldn't be surprised if they change that in the future or bothered if its kept into launch.

Liniker

DrDefault wrote: »

They made freeholds an RNG based gamble, where you have to compete against large guilds

you are wrong - you can get a freehold with a soulbond node-currency that you farm on your own

and even if it was just gold, you'd still be wrong, but again, it's not just gold, so you are 100% wrong.

Liniker

DrDefault wrote: »

People that want to support this type of system clearly have never played hardcore pvp type games where these types of systems already exist. The problem is that Ashes isn't a hardcore pvp game, that's why this type of system will be exploited exponentially by large guilds.

I don't know what's up with all this fear and hatred against large guilds I'm honestly starting to think you people never actually played MMOs with large guilds and what you say is based on what you heard someone else say or what you assume happens in those games.

Do you seriously think large guilds don't have any fucking objectives in the game and all they care about is destroying their own server spending all day camping dungeons and buying all the freeholds? wtf

First thing me and my officers talked about after the FH stream was how many FHs we would NEED if it's 3 maybe 4 for the whole guild, the minimum amount possible because we as a large guild ain't stupid and will have more important things to spend our gold....

Toothpaste

Fantmx wrote: »

GirlsFistinGuys wrote: »

DrDefault wrote: »

>Only the top 10% of the playerbase can have a freehold, regardless of how much effort you put into trying to get one.

LOL you have some serious delusion and are putting words in his mouth. Steven has never said that.

DrDefault wrote: »

The reality is that the freehold development has went from:

They made freeholds an RNG based gamble, where you have to compete against large guilds, and looking at guild halls, it's quite obvious that the direction they're going for with freeholds is to be something more oriented towards guilds and no longer is it about time, effort, and hard work. It's about numbers, it's about who can recruit the most people and dominate that specific area in the game.

This i can agree with. They need to make more of a distinction between freeholds and Guild Halls. And yes, you understand the game mechanics. In order to keep your valuables you will have to make alliances, you are actually going to have to play with people because this is not a single player game.

The number is based on total nodes and by extension total of freeholds likely available divided by their expected 50k server pop. Of course it could change but that is what we have to go on.

It is somewhat incorrect when you add in the ability to have family use your freehold.

Yes, I understand where they get the 10% from. I was more talking about DrDefault claiming. "... regardless of how much effort you put into trying to get one."

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Holy shit, a YouTuber with a subscriber count in the FOUR digits said a thing. That thing must be true!

In today's lesson we learned that before listening to what someone has to say you need to look at their sub count

FOUR digits!

if the first thing you came up to discredit someone is how much followers they have.... that's says a lot about you and your arguments

Ad hominem at its finest

In todays lesson we learned that before reading a post you need to reply to it!

Sure, I opened up with an attack. If someone is going to present a video as bad as the one presented here being credible, I am going to begin my rebuttal by discrediting the medium of video as having any inheret merit.

Once that is established, I will then go in to the specifics of the video in question - exactly as I did. But hey, don't feel the need to be thorough in anything at all that you do - I mean, why start now?

It's ok though, my dude, we know you had to rebut my post in some way, and it isn't as if you could attempt to say anything against the actual point I made.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

It's ok though, my dude, we know you had to rebut my post in some way, and it isn't as if you could attempt to say anything against the actual point I made.

I was going to argue against your point but I remembered I don't have a subscriber count of 10 digits...

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

It's ok though, my dude, we know you had to rebut my post in some way, and it isn't as if you could attempt to say anything against the actual point I made.

I was going to argue against your point but I remembered I don't have a subscriber count of 10 digits...

In that case, I'd just have to dismantle your argument based on it's own merits - as I did with the video.

DrDefault

Liniker wrote: »

DrDefault wrote: »

They made freeholds an RNG based gamble, where you have to compete against large guilds

you are wrong - you can get a freehold with a soulbond node-currency that you farm on your own

and even if it was just gold, you'd still be wrong, but again, it's not just gold, so you are 100% wrong.

I'm not wrong though, it doesn't matter what currency they tie it to, whether it be gold or character bound currency, it's still an RNG based system, or a luck based system. Whichever way you want to describe it, it's still tied to whether you're lucky enough to have enough currency to outbid everyone else competing for a freehold where you also want to place your freehold.

Liniker wrote: »

I don't know what's up with all this fear and hatred against large guilds I'm honestly starting to think you people never actually played MMOs with large guilds and what you say is based on what you heard someone else say or what you assume happens in those games.

I have years of experience playing Albion online, a hardcore pvp game. I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to these types of systems. Albion already has a bidding system that's extremely similar to what Ashes wants to create, the only difference is the crafting/processing stations aren't on freeholds, they're in major cities. I know the extent large guilds will go to in order to control as much due to their competitive streak. I also know how exploitive they can be, even if it results in them getting banned. They will still do it to get one up over their competition.

Liniker wrote: »

Do you seriously think large guilds don't have any fucking objectives in the game and all they care about is destroying their own server spending all day camping dungeons and buying all the freeholds? wtf

I don't know where you come from, but it certainly isn't from any hardcore pvp mmorpgs, because the reality is, from my years of playing numerous hardcore/pvp games, from Dekaron, PWI official and unofficial servers, AA, Aion, BDO, Rust, NW alpha, to Albion, is that when you're the top guild on the server, you do not care about the server health. You care about dominating others, it doesn't matter if it's just one guild ruling or a few others, you only care about being the top. If camping dungeons or buying all the freeholds give your guild that edge over everyone else, you will do it. Hell, I remember a time when I was playing Bless online (oof,) and we sat in front of the level 37 dungeon and camped it for days just to keep the other faction from progressing gear wise. In fact, a lot of pvp will be found in front of dungeons because guilds will camp them. That's extremely common in owpvp games.

Liniker wrote: »

First thing me and my officers talked about after the FH stream was how many FHs we would NEED if it's 3 maybe 4 for the whole guild, the minimum amount possible because we as a large guild ain't stupid and will have more important things to spend our gold....

That's nice, but to me, you don't seem like a hardcore pvp guild based off this statement. Maybe you're just inexperienced with hardcore pvp mmorpgs because they're not as common as they used to be back in the day. Early 2000s during the mmorpg boom, you could honestly only find mmorpgs that are like todays Albion. Full loot dropping/gear dropping mmos with open world pvp, ect.

The biggest shift in mmorpgs though, is the mega alliances that has drastically changed owpvp in mmos. So, the freehold system really appeals to these mega alliances because they give you such vast control of not only the economy, but the ability to gatekeep a large population of players from progressing with their gear. Because that's what will happen for a large majority of players, due to the fact that t4-t5 processing will be locked behind freeholds, this gives those who control the freeholds a serious advantage over those that do not. So, they can easily to just tell everyone in their guild not to sell t4-t5 processed materials on the market and lockout a large majority of players from gear progression.

Now you might say that players can just siege those nodes; however, if you're extremely undergeared, it's an uphill battle. When the battle is evenly numbered, but one side has t4-t5 gear and you're fighting in t3 gear, it doesn't matter how skilled you are. Because it's just one big zerg fight, you're not going to outclass 5 people targeting you at once, you just drop in an instant.

This is the issue that Ashes faces with the current freehold bidding system in place, you might think this system is awesome, but the reality is that long term this type of system isn't viable when it comes to what they want ashes to be, a continuously changing world.

Quarantine

Dygz wrote: »

Quarantine wrote: »

I think many of us had made assumptions, and that has given us some big disappointments. For myself, I really was interested in getting into breeding. Since my playstyle simply can't keep up with the big boys, I'm just going to have to change my plans.

I don't know that you can call something an assumption when I ask Steven direct questions and he answers "No."
And then 4.5 years laters he announces, "Oh. We recently added a change. Now, the answer is yes."

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that in a broad sweeping generalized statement that included everyone who was disappointed. I was meaning for people like myself who had made some assumptions based on limited info at the Kickstarter.
My assumption made me back the Kickstarter, but I can't even be mad. I met some amazing people along the way, and while this is not *my* dream game, it will still have some things that will be fun to do. I can see how your situation is a bit more frustrating, because you had expected worldwide corruption to make the game playable for you. I would also agree with you, because I noticed when they added that on. I think it made a lot of people happy, but it definitely was a change. Not sure why you keep getting gaslit.

Liniker

DrDefault wrote: »

I'm not wrong though, it doesn't matter what currency they tie it to, whether it be gold or character bound currency, it's still an RNG based system, or a luck based system

You are and you don't understand what bidding is, its not luck or rng based you are factually incorrect - and btw if it was luck or rng based a solo player could have a chance to win against a large guilde even with gold, I don't think you believe that so you are just confused.

DrDefault wrote: »

I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to these types of systems

You don't, that's about it.

DrDefault wrote: »

I don't know where you come from, but it certainly isn't from any hardcore pvp mmorpgs, because the reality is, from my years of playing numerous hardcore/pvp games, from Dekaron, PWI official and unofficial servers, AA, Aion, BDO, Rust, NW alpha, to Albion,

my background includes ultima, mortal online, dark age of camelot, eve, and pretty much all the games you mentioned plus sandboxes like ark, conan,

but did you just included NW as a PVP / Hardcore MMO? BDO? oh god... this is the moment I realise I've been wasting my time.

DrDefault wrote: »

That's nice, but to me, you don't seem like a hardcore pvp guild based off this statement

ahah I'll save this, and will get back to you in a year when A2 is live.

DrDefault wrote: »

but the reality is that long term this type of system isn't viable when it comes to what they want ashes to be, a continuously changing world.

I'm amazed how you can make this statement based on a system you don't fully understand because intrepid literally only told us the overall concept - not to mention the lack of information about nodes, crafting, economy and everything else

it's really hilarious to see someone that actually thinks he just outsmarted a team of developers with his little to No knowledge on the systems they are designing - you should apply for lead game designer and help them make a good game ahah

dunning kruger at its finest

Ayeveegaming1

it's really hilarious to see someone that actually thinks he just outsmarted a team of developers with his little to No knowledge on the systems they are designing - you should apply for lead game designer and help them make a good game ahah

dunning kruger at its finest[/quote]
I agree
Its almost like he is Noaani's clone, or even the same person...

Noaani

Ravicus wrote: »

it's really hilarious to see someone that actually thinks he just outsmarted a team of developers with his little to No knowledge on the systems they are designing - you should apply for lead game designer and help them make a good game ahah

dunning kruger at its finest
I agree
Its almost like he is Noaani's clone, or even the same person...

You need to stop messing up quotes.

Ayeveegaming1

You need to stop messing up quotes.[/quote]

Sue me.

Noaani

Ravicus wrote: »

You need to stop messing up quotes.

Sue me.

Well that's obviously an over reaction.

Quotes are really easy to not mess up, and keeping them in tact makes conversation easier. If you have no points to make, and don't want conversation to be easy, then perhaps resorting to making it harder is working for you.

But really, it just makes it look like you have no clue how to use a forum, which in turn discredits what ever you have to say. I mean, if you don't have the respect for what you want to say enough to use the forum properly, why should anyone else have any respect for what you have to say?

But hey, you do you my dude.

Abarat

Fantmx wrote: »

Why I take this a little bit more personally isn't just the fact that Steven said in 2022, as the video points out, that anyone who put the effort in would get a freehold even though it would be a monumental achievement. It is that I specifically asked him in 2018 if I put in the work would I get to own a freehold and the answer was yes anyone that put in the work could. He again stated it would be a difficult achievement but ultimately yes we could.

What about what you learned makes his answer that anyone who puts in the effort can get a freehold disappointing or something to take personally?

Knowing what you know now, how would you have answered it differently. Freeholds are designed in such a way that ownership is not permanent. They will be lost to sieges, foreclosures, and just sales.

Steven should have looked at you and said, yup, sorry, no way your sorry ass will get one?

I think you heard what you wanted. ANYONE can get them... maybe not in a particular moment in time or easily, but i dont think his answer is direct conflict. I do think that they had to make changes in the plan for economy reasons? space in the world?, but that still does not mean that YOU cannot get one.

Does anyone know exactly what master and grandmaster processing is about exactly? Every one is mad that it is 'gated' but we have no idea what it even represents? do we? I know folks have a lot of assumptions, but do we really know exactly what the represents?

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