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Secondary Archetype Prediction
Tacquito
Member
The secondary archetype will change the character's class & role WAY more than most people are anticipating.
Many people on these forums have taken the position that the Secondary choice will only add minor modifications, or "flavor", to your primary archetype abilities. However, Steven is on record as saying it can dramatically change your character's role and your active abilities.
https://youtu.be/rrD4RCTbxds
16:40
Balancing 64 unique classes would be near impossible, but IS has made it clear that they are not looking to balance all of the classes.
I am anticipating 64 fairly unique classes. I mean, do people really think that Ashes will only have 1 healer, with 8 slightly different variations? No. There will be multiple unique healers (not including the Bard, tbd on that). My only hope is that there aren't a small handful of clear metas (High Priest, Guardian, etc).
I am further predicting that the 64 classes will end up being one of the most beloved features of Ashes.
Mark it.
Many people on these forums have taken the position that the Secondary choice will only add minor modifications, or "flavor", to your primary archetype abilities. However, Steven is on record as saying it can dramatically change your character's role and your active abilities.
https://youtu.be/rrD4RCTbxds16:40
Balancing 64 unique classes would be near impossible, but IS has made it clear that they are not looking to balance all of the classes.
I am anticipating 64 fairly unique classes. I mean, do people really think that Ashes will only have 1 healer, with 8 slightly different variations? No. There will be multiple unique healers (not including the Bard, tbd on that). My only hope is that there aren't a small handful of clear metas (High Priest, Guardian, etc).
I am further predicting that the 64 classes will end up being one of the most beloved features of Ashes.
Mark it.
2
Comments
"Augments can affect a multitude of things. It can drastically change the ability itself. It can change the damage type. It can change the cooldown period. It can change the damage values. It can change the distance. It can dramatically change it from a ranged effect to a melee effect. Augments are essentially can create- they are creating entirely new skills, but they're going to keep obviously some identity with what that primary active ability was."[13] – Steven Sharif
Sorry, but you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. I recommend keeping realistic expectations, this is an independent studio with no previous game development experience and a limited budget, with TONS of systems and content that are extremely ambitious. Sometimes we need a reality check.
8 classes to begin with some build variations is more than enough.
I'm expecting augments (from the secondary archetype) to meaningfully ALTER the primary archetype.
I'm not expecting 64 totally unique and separate classes, with own separate set of abilities, etc.
I do however expect secondary archetypes to alter the visuals of a class, and generally create a somewhat unique class identity. I also expect it to somewhat alter primary archetype's abilities.
So if I pick a Fighter + Mage combo, I do expect my class to look somewhat unique, and different from the regular Fighter. I expect some abilities to be altered to grant them "mage" feel. Gonna use the same example I used previously: a Whirlwind (spin to win) ability from Fighter, turns into an elemental tornado (the element depends on which augment you used), like a fiery tornado that burns, a freezing wind tornado that...chills enemies, an electrifying tornado that shocks enemies, etc. And with the Mage showcase, I'm really positive something like this will be in the game.
And if I pick Mage + Fighter combo, I still expect my class to play like a mage, but maybe with more focus on melee abilities, borrowing some stuff from the Fighter archetype (not sure what that stuff is, because we haven't even seen full Fighter class showcase with 10+ abilities). Something like turning a PBAoE, into a whirlwind...
With Fighter + Cleric, you could infuse some abilities with light/holy theme, and those abilities could have additional effects, they could heal you for example.
That was my understanding of how the system will work, and it's the most important thing to me, and the reason why I even follow this project. So I hope they nail it, and make it so there's a lot of customization available.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/51718/archetype-roles-i-swear-im-not-crazy/p1
Well, we're about to get a Cleric stream.
I feel grossly overconfident that once I've seen 15+ Cleric abilities I can dissect the entire currently intended Augment and battle system.
We shall have answers!
hi bae uwu
However you will not be getting skill and abilities from your second choice. The secondary will only augment your abilities. What precisely does the mean time will tell.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes
A player may choose a secondary archetype when they reach level 25.[4] The combination of primary and secondary archetypes is referred to as a class.[4][1][5]
The secondary archetype does not provide additional skills.[11]
The player can then augment their primary skills with effects from their secondary archetype.[4][8]
Each skill in the primary tree will have several augment options from the secondary tree. This is an example of horizontal progression.[8]
Augments to primary skills can fundamentally change the way the ability works - adapting what the ability once did to incorporate the identity of the secondary archetype/class.[13]
We also need more than the 10 examples of augments we have had for years...
Only good surprises allowed now!
Steven is the one who has no previous game dev experience.
The studio seems to have an unlimited budget somehow.
But, yes... the game was supposed to release in 3 years. It's been 6 years and we haven't seen Augments yet.
We also haven't seen a lot about Nodes, yet.
By design... the OP is correct.
Whether or not IS can implement the original design well remains to be seen.
Really, no way for us to meaningfully comment on whether they can implement that design well until we're able to test it.
This is about the third time you have said some version of this. What are you getting at?
I assure you there is not an "unlimited" budget, but why do you keep pointing this out? It doesn't even seem to have anything to do with what you are trying to say here.
Do we, though? Can't we just reverse engineer Tradd's combat design ethos from first principles based on 2 minutes and 14 seconds of video and claim with absolute certainty that we know how Augments are going to work?
That's so much spicier.
They don't have a publisher giving them funds for development - which is how things typically work.
Steven is the one funding the project.
The project was originally due to release before 2020.
They did not release before 2020.
It is now 2023 and they have not yet hit Alpha 2. We don't know when Alpha 2 will be. Most likely Alpha 2 will start after 2023.
IS is still hiring more devs.
Steven does not seem to be worried about running out of money before the game releases.
That's what I'm getting at.
do you think that if steven was worried, you would know?
you have a very strange perspective to me.
Oh yeah
You right
My bad... I do love some spice.
If Steven were worried about running out of money:
He would lock down the game design now rather than saying that everything is subject to change based on feedback from fans...
He would announce that they have finished hiring new staff...
He would announce the date for Alpha 2... and it would probably be before 2024...
Senior Game Designer at Intrepid for Ashes.
Put some respec on his name.
Today he respec to Senior Combat Designer for the stream.
Next week maybe he respec to something else.
Primary Archetype will remain the same.
i am no longer proud of you.
This is propaganda.
He is MORE worried about making a successful, IMPACTFULL game.
i dont know... that was pretty strong. Can i retract it?
😆
I love the honesty, I say we let him have the do-over
Is the dissection complete?
Oh, ya sure.
Subscribe to my Patreon for the deets.
More seriously there wasn't that much to analyse beyond what I've already done. No skills seemed to fall outside standard MMO/MOBA stuff, and their transformability is pretty clear. I feel like the specific way in which mana cost and range are displayed in the tooltip UI has some very minor implications, but nothing I'd bother to run the gauntlet for.
SirChancelot is still right. It is not particularly difficult to apply class changing effects to these abilities. Standard stuff I think. So no reason I saw to change from my old list except that I don't know if healing can still crit and I don't think I saw any crit heals.