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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
But then remember the scene of the tower of carphin and how most of us were all struck visually by its appearance (let alone how the zone changed)
I think ashes is fine with its own established identity and that this will play out as release occurs and it establishes itself in the marketplace
You couldn't be more right about the "WoWhead" part. I've seen this guy say that giving a player agency over the gaming experience of another player is bad game design. How the opinion of someone (and/or their agreeing community) who rejects the idea of an open MMORPG could matter for Intrepid in regards to their project is beyond me. Maybe that clip was out of context and he elaborated on it further but it is hard to soften that comment to point where it can still align with the base idea of Ashes. Player not only can but SHOULD have agency over the gaming experience of players on their server, that is the whole idea of the game. It rises and falls with peoples ability to organize and cooperate even at the risk of betrayal and conflict, a notion that is opposite of what Asmon suggested.
To me that rules out him and the agreeing parts of his community as viable sources for feedback at least for all interactive systems that Ashes has.
And I absolutely agree, once again there are tons of people making judgements on an Alpha stage project like this is it and comparing it to finished games, like that would make any sense. But that's something I think I have discussed in the "Obeserving the development process" thread.
The big POIs simply aren't being spoilered for hype, because it will be all the more satisfying for players to discover these things themselves, rather than be handed out the truly epic parts in some rendered trailer.
Also, the visual appearance of things has not yet been finalised/optimised etc, they are still working on that.
Having said that, with the intention of the game having node sieges etc, which will potentially involve hundreds if not thousands of players at a time... then it is important that it's not just about appearance, but also performance.... and I think the AOC team are aware of this and are making sure to optimise performance as well, which means some visual flashiness may need to be potentially sacrificed, which I personally am completely okay with. I rather play a game that performs well over a game that looks amazing but lags to the point that it is unplayable.
But I'm 80% sure Asmon gonna shit on the game when it releases, so I just hope it won't impact the game's popularity within its TA too much.
We basically agree on most points here. Ultimately Asmon is an online persona in need of games that can be played casually while entertaining a crowd, instead of a primarily passionate gamer just recording his gaming sessions. Which is fine, his success proves it works, but it also makes him part of a tiny minority of people that won't be the kind to sustain Intrepid. And I am confident that rather than Ashes abandoning its compelling features (that reward high commitment game play) they will see to it that entertainers will have their niche. The "bad" publicity that might come from skewed takes now will be put into perspective by people actually playing the game and looking at the A2 footage. Because just like Asmon has a primary objective that centers around his brand, Intrepid has a primary objective centering around their game. As long as cooperating with Asmongold provides them with players who by playing will be able to make up their own mind, it is worth having him as part of the content creator program.
We can just hope people understand that his takes have to be taken with a grain (or a big pinch) of salt as he has to prioritize his brand over the consistent realization of Ashes' intended gameplay.
Ashes is designed for a very specific playstyle rather than for broad MMORPG appeal.
In this case - Asmon was not "shitting" on Ashes. He just shared some constructive criticism... and it mostly came as a stray thought. That Highwayman Hills location looked like a generic UE5 location.
He's not wrong about that.
But, then we can put that critique in perspective.
Doesn't necessarily mean that the devs need to change their design approach.
Ashes has not yet hit Alpha 2.
The demo was for the new Cleric Active Skills - a second/third update of Cleric combat. It was not to reveal the second/third update on the Highwayman Hills location.
A lot of the unique environment designs will come from Racial and Node Type influences. Not just with the buildings that appear when the Nodes progress, but also with the pre-existing ruins as they are occupied by different mobs and NPCs.
Well, he is wrong about that, and so are you. The graphics style is independent of what engine you use. An engine just provides pre made rendering instructions for graphics. it doesn't have anything to do with what style the graphics are.
There is a lot to unpack in this post.
I'm not going to be the one to do it, but wow.
I'll just say that this isn't what Generic means. Especially not in this context.
so generic doesn't mean what generic means? suddenly tables arent tables anymore, so arent chairs. i reply based on objective definition of things. not on subjective definitions (unless an explanation is provided, then i would assume you are using that word for lack of a better one, which is understandable). im not a mind reader
You do this all the time. You challenge something someone else is saying with simple terms by saying 'this is absolutely not true' and then claim objectivity without directly checking it. I don't know if you are ESL or not, that would explain this, but...
Generic is defined as 'sharing a lot of similar properties with other things'. By the nature of a game engine's design options, the more 'normal' it gets, the more generic it must be almost by definition. The Highwayman Hills were beautiful, but UE5 means that... rocks look like rocks. Trees look like Trees. They're supposed to. They share a lot of similar properties with 'rocks' and 'trees'.
I made a whole huge post praising those rocks and trees. But they're still generic.
I wouldn't even engage you, except that the OP itself literally relies on this definition. The question isn't answerable reasonably if you're gonna be up in here challenging what generic itself means and talking about rendering pipelines.
Don't you know how UE5 even works? That's... not even what it mostly does anymore.
yes, i am ESL har har. english is my second language, so ill give you that. there might be a word with a specific meaning that i know, but that word might have second or third meaning that im not aware of. however, i think that argument is silly, because no one knows every word in their native language, or even every meaning of all the words they know.
anyway, the reason i ask for clarification is because i often see people saying things like "well, that is MY definition of this thing" and thats why i say well, chairs will be something else and tables will mean something else as well.
also (here we go again) what does the more normal in an engine means? do you mean the more close to a real object? do you mean the trees and rock that come pre-packaged with the engine? video games have tried, over the decades, the make games look more realistic...so now that's generic? wait what? i thought rocks were supposed to look like rocks and trees were supposed to look like trees. but that's engine agnostic. that just depends on how you draw them...
anyways, my point is that that engine you use doesnt dictate the art style. for example, look at octopath traveler, triangle strategy and other games made with unreal 4, they all look different. the engine doesnt dictate the art.
look at this video
same game ran with ue4 and then u5. same trees, same water, same ground, same everything. you can say that ue5 has better illumination and better details, but that doesnt magically change the art style.
thats why i say they are wrong when they say this looks like a generic ue5 tree or rock, because such a thing doesn't exist...
edit: also remember that ashes was using ue4 and the art was used during ue4 era. so now they upgraded the engine, which is completely independent from the art, and they are using the same art style, but suddenly things look bad or generic ue5? literally doesnt make any sense T_T
i would understand if you said, "well that rock looks generic", but not "well that rocks look ue5 generic" because there is no such thing...
ive always thought something generic was something not branded.
Ah, well then yeah ok I see your point relative to that, I just once again didn't want you to get into a definitions debate unnecessarily.
There is such a thing as UE5 Generic, but I am not necessarily agreeing with Dygz or Asmongold about if Ashes fits that description. UE5 Generic would be 'hey let's use some variations on the default UE5 rocks and textures for rocks'. Which would mean you see them all the time.
Or 'using certain common sorta-presets in SpeedTree'. If you only show us rocks and trees and maybe a bridge or some doors, then it's 'unbranded' enough in my understanding that it counts.
I don't know if it matters to you but I never intend to mock anyone when I ask if they are ESL, I'm genuinely trying to understand if the reason they have a different definition is because of their native language. It's part of my work.
I think that people know that the art style is not defined by the engine. They're noting that if you don't define a specific art style, then the Engine causes it to look a certain way, like using a default font.
Some people might think that Ashes currently looks like the equivalent of 'A Default Font' in terms of visual design. I'm not the type of person who is really all that capable of seeing it nor caring about it once you get to the higher levels of skill.
If you think that Ashes doesn't look like a 'Default Font' then yeah, I think you really don't agree that it is Generic UE5 anything.
There's no reason to have a knee-jerk reaction to Asmon's critique.
Do we REALLY want another WOW clone as far as art goes? Jeebous, I'm so sick of it's Disney on crack art I can't even stand to look at it anymore let alone play it, and everyone's copied it. Yes, even the oh so fabled Riot MMO...all their art style is, is two steps to the right from wow. An over exaggerated cartoon that we get to push around.
We, the players deserve better, and thank the maker Steven decided to go 180 degrees away from WOW and all it's clones and gave us a realistic look with a little flair(style). I am 250% happy and content with that. Too bad someone won't make a video stating all the BAD things WOW has given us and the genre since it's release.
The closet to ashes in my choice is Black Desert, and it's anime themed...wait...let's be real for a second. The environment in BDO is spectacular, but the PC's...not so much...the females with their long legs that reach to the moon, the furry nonsense, and the outlandish costumes. So let's be real, Black Desert is a beautiful world, but you boil it down and it's nothing more than a Street Fighter fashion show. Kung Fu'ing all around with the most outlandish and over the top gear someone can imagine. But with their own engine, there is still pop in trees, buildings, etc. and that is just tech/engine limits.
So next was memorable.....I started wow at release and played hard n heavy until Cataclysm, then left it for good. I played RIFT until Trion ruined it, I played GW and GW2, Wildstar (wow clone art wise), LOTR online, DND Online (bad art all around for both), and numerous others. Wow has been around close to 20 years now, and it's no telling how many clones there are of it that have come and gone, but that Disney on crack art has been ingrained into our heads so much it is a no brainer it's easy to spot and tell where it came from, but as far as memorable? Not really much from wow for me.WOW had a great soundtrack and zone music, that helped sell wow more than anyone can guess or realize. Their compliment of colors in the zones and then amped up to 10 made wow work and them top is off with great music and wham, there you have it. No buildings stood out besides looking almost ridiculous. The elven village in RIFT when you hit level 13 was more memorable to me that anything in all the mmo's I've played, and that was because of the design of the buildings until I played Alpha1, I had so many memorable scenes from it it's not even funny. My favorite being climbing on top of the big arch over the sea...that was epic and breathtaking, and that was in Unreal4, no telling how much they are going to blow us away with all of 5's capabilities.
Now, Baldur's Gate3 is on the scene and everyone is going gaga over it...it has a realistic style like Ashes so where does that leave us?
Ashes of Creation has it's own style, you just have to look, and no it's not going to be glaring at you in the face like WOW or Riot or GW2, but it's there and when you see it and recognize it, it's stellar. Not every place can be OMG memorable, but I think Steven and his team will excite us and surprise us to no end when we finally get to step foot into Vera for Alpha2.
There is always more that could be done but as i say no matter what you do in life someone, somewhere is going to be displeased with you for whatever reason. I would not say it's in a bad place, AoC is definitely looking good. Maybe it's just not what some of us "Expect" it should be fully.
Or to add some pikes with Zombie heads or Minotaur heads (which we probably wouldn't see until the Nodes are activated and the Ruins are occupied by mobs/NPCs depending on the progression Stage and Racial population of the Node).
Node progression and Seasons also dictate mob population and Nodes probably were not activated for that demo. Same for Tower of Carphin. And... we are not at the start of Alpha 2.
At the start of Alpha 2, we won't even have all the Primary Archetypes implemented - they will be added as Alpha 2 continues. Which should expect the same to be true of mob types and mob density.
So... even if agreed that that Highwayman Hills Ruin looks like a generic UE5 building right now - that's not inherently a problem.
It is quite likely that the distinguishing assets Asmon suggested would spruce up those Ruins might scheduled for implementation by the start, middle or end of Alpha 2.
Doesn't hurt anything to provide constructive criticism early - that's the kind of bug/feedback we should expect to be reported at this time of development. Doesn't mean the devs don't think the same thing and already have plans for the distinctions to appear months from now.
"Yep, we know. Already scheduled to add that later..." is a common dev response when reading bugs from QA.
Choosing the most superficial and unimportant aspect of a game, how shallow.
You don't think it looks a little bland some places?
For an example of what I'm talking about:
I get that this is photorealistic type, but at the same time, what really stands out about it that you could say is distinguishing?
Just use Google's reverse Image search and scroll for a bit (they have AI now so it tries to match by theme first).
I understand your suspicion though, I am that sort of person, I fully admit.
Ashes of Creation looks fine as it is. This is great. To put this in perspective, saying Ashes of Creation looks "generic" is like comparing a pretty farmer's daughter to a beautiful princess in full regalia.
Well, Ashes of Creation is not even in beta yet. She does not have her hair done, make-up on, with a nice dress and jewelry.
Still, without all that, Ashes of Creation still looks nice.
Ashes of Creation graphics can always be tweaked later. There are so many other things that need to be focused on first.
lets include the hud, ui, character and npc / mobs looks, etc, because all of those are part of ashes, not just rocks and grass, then lets see if it looks generic. even without polishing, it looks branded (minus the ui)