the core features are funded by steven himself. the cash shop is for extra stuff. i guess they want to release the game with some of the extra stuff instead of waiting until they start making money from subs to develop these extra stuff
It's naive to think that the only reason the game has been delayed is because they're perfectionists and wanted to take their time. When in fact it's due to a lack of funds.
I never said or thought that. features take time do develop.
You think the game is already funded because Steven told it. But of course it's not true. But I understand that he prefers to lie about this, it's certainly the best communciation to have.
Or maybe it's kind of all funded today but certainly not when he told that the game is funded.
how do you know he is lying?
he said in an interview many, many years ago, that developing the game will take roughly around 30million dollars, and he funded that with his own money. kickstarter and packs are for additional features and polish.
can you tell me what are core features, content and polish and provide examples?
I mean if the game was already funded, it would not been delay of 5 years...
Spoken like someone that has never worked on a complex project.
Funding has not been an immediate issue for Intrepid as yet.
Coming from you, who know everything about anything, Im not surprised that you are also an expert in "complex project"... But funding is always an issue for every project even for big studios.
Nah, I don't know everything - I just tend to not talk about things I don't know about.
An example of that is the current thread on the proposed 4th player flagging state - I really have no idea at all how it would play out, and so have not posted a single thing in the thread.
This may appear to some people as me thinking I know everything - but that reflects more on their assumption that people will just talk about anything rather than only talk on things they know something about.
Thank goodness you only talk about things you know. Considering your omnipresence on this forum, you know a lot!
I can't imagine what would happen if you started talking about what you don't know.
Nah, there are a lot of threads I just don't participate in.
I mean, I literally gave you an example of a very current 10+ page discussion thread that I haven't commented in at all.
But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your opinions - I mean, why start now, right?
I was saying that if the game had been postponed for 5 years, money was certainly one of the reasons. And I was also saying that I'm in favor of a Road Map, but if there isn't one and the game looks good at the end, that's fine too.
I'm benevolent toward the development team, but I also have my own opinions and interpretation. So we can talk about things we don't have all the facts on. Otherwise the forum would have died a long time ago.
The problem is that you're constantly lecturing us on the rules of conduct we should adopt, that we shouldn't talk like that, that we should talk about what we know, that we shouldn't talk if we don't know blah, blah, blah.
But in the end you don't seem mean, just a bit too talkative, so I don't blame you.
I was saying that if the game had been postponed for 5 years, money was certainly one of the reasons.
If the game had been postponed, that may be true.
However, the game hasn't been postponed.
The biggest cost to Intrepid right now is staff. If money were an issue, they would have to let a lot of staff go. This is something we would know about - they can't really hide large percentage layoffs.
They haven't. Ergo, money isn't currently an issue.
Edit to add; keep in mind realistic MMO development times.
Ashes started development in earnest in 2019. 2017 saw them conceptualize, finance and promote. 2018 saw them start to build the team. While there was some back end work done back then, there wouldn't have been much.
the core features are funded by steven himself. the cash shop is for extra stuff. i guess they want to release the game with some of the extra stuff instead of waiting until they start making money from subs to develop these extra stuff
It's naive to think that the only reason the game has been delayed is because they're perfectionists and wanted to take their time. When in fact it's due to a lack of funds.
I never said or thought that. features take time do develop.
You think the game is already funded because Steven told it. But of course it's not true. But I understand that he prefers to lie about this, it's certainly the best communciation to have.
Or maybe it's kind of all funded today but certainly not when he told that the game is funded.
how do you know he is lying?
he said in an interview many, many years ago, that developing the game will take roughly around 30million dollars, and he funded that with his own money. kickstarter and packs are for additional features and polish.
can you tell me what are core features, content and polish and provide examples?
I mean if the game was already funded, it would not been delay of 5 years...
Spoken like someone that has never worked on a complex project.
Funding has not been an immediate issue for Intrepid as yet.
Coming from you, who know everything about anything, Im not surprised that you are also an expert in "complex project"... But funding is always an issue for every project even for big studios.
Nah, I don't know everything - I just tend to not talk about things I don't know about.
An example of that is the current thread on the proposed 4th player flagging state - I really have no idea at all how it would play out, and so have not posted a single thing in the thread.
This may appear to some people as me thinking I know everything - but that reflects more on their assumption that people will just talk about anything rather than only talk on things they know something about.
Thank goodness you only talk about things you know. Considering your omnipresence on this forum, you know a lot!
I can't imagine what would happen if you started talking about what you don't know.
I was saying that if the game had been postponed for 5 years, money was certainly one of the reasons.
If the game had been postponed, that may be true.
However, the game hasn't been postponed.
The biggest cost to Intrepid right now is staff. If money were an issue, they would have to let a lot of staff go. This is something we would know about - they can't really hide large percentage layoffs.
They haven't. Ergo, money isn't currently an issue.
Edit to add; keep in mind realistic MMO development times.
Ashes started development in earnest in 2019. 2017 saw them conceptualize, finance and promote. 2018 saw them start to build the team. While there was some back end work done back then, there wouldn't have been much.
So, we are in Ashes 4th year of real development.
ESO took 7 years to develop.
That should give you a realistic timeline.
A deadline pushed back for money reasons doesn't necessarily mean that the staff can't be paid immediately, and that Steven finds himself in his underpants rummaging through the garbage.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
If the staff can't be paid, it's worse than a money problem, it's bankruptcy.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
Years ago when Ashes was planned to release by 2020, "funded to completion" was primarily based on Steven self-funding development.
Now, with ballooning timelines and costs, this game is only "funded to completion" because of A2 and cosmetic sales. A2 sales alone are at least $25 million already, but probably $50 million, plus additional cosmetics.
So saying Steven is self-funding the game, and the game is funded to completion, is a bit misleading. Yes, Steven started by self-funding. Yes, the game is funded to completion. But only because of A2/cosmetic sales. It is no longer self-funded by Steven.
Another hot take: cosmetic purchases are enabling the continued delay of the game. This game would almost certainly have released by now, or be dead, if there were no cosmetic/A2 sales.
I don't think what the OP Is requesting is unreasonable. The community is pretty invested in this game and IS openly communicating where they are at in development just seems....reasonable.
We had a roadmap 5+ years ago, and we've not even got to persistant alpha 2 yet. Pretty much lost all interest at this point I just pop up every year or so to see whats changed. It seems like lots of effort is going into making cash shop cosmetics monthly to keep milking the cash cow but very little into actually releasing any kind of persistent alpha.
See you next year
Don't bother comping back honestly. Your post and opinion are pretty simple minded if you look at the progress. There has been an immense amount of progress shown every month and its pretty clear you're here to throw jabs. Take a look at how long a lot of the newer and larger MMOs take to make, roughly 7-10 years. Ashes is perfectly within that time frame.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
the core features are funded by steven himself. the cash shop is for extra stuff. i guess they want to release the game with some of the extra stuff instead of waiting until they start making money from subs to develop these extra stuff
what core features? nothing core has been completed
Really? NOTHING? Nothing has been completed. I can only imagine you're young which is why such crazy hyperbole is being used.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
Steven Sharif is Creative Director at Intrepid Studios.[1]
I’ve been an avid gamer for over 25 years, and time after time I find myself playing MMORPG’s. There is something about the Massively Multiplayer part of the game that has always intrigued me. Nothing compares with the experience of playing with thousands of people, from across the world. Everything in my design for Ashes of Creation, stems from that role of “community” in our game. I want to see the players dictate the direction of our story. I want to see the world we develop, adapt and react to the player’s actions. Most importantly, I want to see a game built by gamers FOR gamers.[1] – Steven Sharif
The best way you can create a product is by listening to the the feedback that your community gives you; and that's just not on a design front that's also on a product front as well- a business front. Also so you know there's a lot of things that I have the luxury of doing with Intrepid as a company because I am the sole share owner in the company I don't have to answer to a board and I have that luxury. Not a lot of companies have that luxury and that's why it's important for consumers to speak out and give their their feedback because the board does see that and the success of other companies that try new things, that take risks like Intrepid is taking or that Ashes of Creation is taking. It's important for those risk takers to get the love and the support so that it shows other businesses really the direction that the genre should go in.[2] – Steven Sharif
The bottom line is I am committed to this project's success and completion and that means that when it comes to funding for the additional years that perhaps were not planned for, that's coming out of mine and John's pocket and we're okay with that. Because what we see in front of us is not only a team of extremely talented individuals but also a community that is extremely passionate about the project and wanting to see it come to fruition. It's not just about what our personal desires are, John and myself being MMO players, but really it's about the fact that we've created a following, a community of players who want the same thing or similar to the same thing and that's something that's at the forefront of my mind anytime I walk into work is how is what we're doing today going to impact the players tomorrow. That's a very important question. It's a product driven development aspect and you know I believe based on the millions of players we already have pre-registered for the game that Ashes of Creation is going to be one of the most successful and largest launches in MMO history.[3] – Steven Sharif
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
IS is shutting down pre-order packs soon, before A2 news comes out. This has likely given them a modest bump in cash from people who are buying into A2 that have not yet.
But they would have made a lot more money releasing A2 with the option to buy a pack still intact.
As far as the $30M, we don't know if all that money was delivered to IS or just available as needed. If 150k pre-order packs have been bought , that's over $30M right there.
As far as "risking" $30M? That's called investing in a company that makes a good product. Unless AoC flops hard in unexpected ways, it's going to sell a million+ copies. If it's very successful it will sell several million copies and the owner is going to make 10's of millions in pure profit.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
Angel inventors are a real thing btw. If you have a lot of money you have anything open to you in what you want to do or support.
the core features are funded by steven himself. the cash shop is for extra stuff. i guess they want to release the game with some of the extra stuff instead of waiting until they start making money from subs to develop these extra stuff
what core features? nothing core has been completed
Really? NOTHING? Nothing has been completed. I can only imagine you're young which is why such crazy hyperbole is being used.
Give me one example of a completed feature, id love you to prove me wrong mate lol
IS is shutting down pre-order packs soon, before A2 news comes out. This has likely given them a modest bump in cash from people who are buying into A2 that have not yet.
But they would have made a lot more money releasing A2 with the option to buy a pack still intact.
As far as the $30M, we don't know if all that money was delivered to IS or just available as needed. If 150k pre-order packs have been bought , that's over $30M right there.
As far as "risking" $30M? That's called investing in a company that makes a good product. Unless AoC flops hard in unexpected ways, it's going to sell a million+ copies. If it's very successful it will sell several million copies and the owner is going to make 10's of millions in pure profit.
Furthermore i would bet that closing A2 sales and then re-opening them two months into A2 is what will happen with the fomo aspect being " for a limited time"that persists the next 12 months boosting sales even more
If it's very successful it will sell several million copies and the owner is going to make 10's of millions in pure profit.
They don't sell copies, just the monthly subscription fee and any cosmetics you choose.
7 million subs x 15$ a month, you do the math
Math aside, for any new readers, my point is the game does not have a box cost, only a monthly sub, so plan accordingly (and maybe brush-up on your algebra)
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
Steven Sharif is Creative Director at Intrepid Studios.[1]
I’ve been an avid gamer for over 25 years, and time after time I find myself playing MMORPG’s. There is something about the Massively Multiplayer part of the game that has always intrigued me. Nothing compares with the experience of playing with thousands of people, from across the world. Everything in my design for Ashes of Creation, stems from that role of “community” in our game. I want to see the players dictate the direction of our story. I want to see the world we develop, adapt and react to the player’s actions. Most importantly, I want to see a game built by gamers FOR gamers.[1] – Steven Sharif
The best way you can create a product is by listening to the the feedback that your community gives you; and that's just not on a design front that's also on a product front as well- a business front. Also so you know there's a lot of things that I have the luxury of doing with Intrepid as a company because I am the sole share owner in the company I don't have to answer to a board and I have that luxury. Not a lot of companies have that luxury and that's why it's important for consumers to speak out and give their their feedback because the board does see that and the success of other companies that try new things, that take risks like Intrepid is taking or that Ashes of Creation is taking. It's important for those risk takers to get the love and the support so that it shows other businesses really the direction that the genre should go in.[2] – Steven Sharif
The bottom line is I am committed to this project's success and completion and that means that when it comes to funding for the additional years that perhaps were not planned for, that's coming out of mine and John's pocket and we're okay with that. Because what we see in front of us is not only a team of extremely talented individuals but also a community that is extremely passionate about the project and wanting to see it come to fruition. It's not just about what our personal desires are, John and myself being MMO players, but really it's about the fact that we've created a following, a community of players who want the same thing or similar to the same thing and that's something that's at the forefront of my mind anytime I walk into work is how is what we're doing today going to impact the players tomorrow. That's a very important question. It's a product driven development aspect and you know I believe based on the millions of players we already have pre-registered for the game that Ashes of Creation is going to be one of the most successful and largest launches in MMO history.[3] – Steven Sharif
Thank you for sending the Wiki links I have already read. I didn't tell that Steven didn't tell it. I told that I don't believe him. I think that it is his communication and the reality is different.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
Steven Sharif is Creative Director at Intrepid Studios.[1]
I’ve been an avid gamer for over 25 years, and time after time I find myself playing MMORPG’s. There is something about the Massively Multiplayer part of the game that has always intrigued me. Nothing compares with the experience of playing with thousands of people, from across the world. Everything in my design for Ashes of Creation, stems from that role of “community” in our game. I want to see the players dictate the direction of our story. I want to see the world we develop, adapt and react to the player’s actions. Most importantly, I want to see a game built by gamers FOR gamers.[1] – Steven Sharif
The best way you can create a product is by listening to the the feedback that your community gives you; and that's just not on a design front that's also on a product front as well- a business front. Also so you know there's a lot of things that I have the luxury of doing with Intrepid as a company because I am the sole share owner in the company I don't have to answer to a board and I have that luxury. Not a lot of companies have that luxury and that's why it's important for consumers to speak out and give their their feedback because the board does see that and the success of other companies that try new things, that take risks like Intrepid is taking or that Ashes of Creation is taking. It's important for those risk takers to get the love and the support so that it shows other businesses really the direction that the genre should go in.[2] – Steven Sharif
The bottom line is I am committed to this project's success and completion and that means that when it comes to funding for the additional years that perhaps were not planned for, that's coming out of mine and John's pocket and we're okay with that. Because what we see in front of us is not only a team of extremely talented individuals but also a community that is extremely passionate about the project and wanting to see it come to fruition. It's not just about what our personal desires are, John and myself being MMO players, but really it's about the fact that we've created a following, a community of players who want the same thing or similar to the same thing and that's something that's at the forefront of my mind anytime I walk into work is how is what we're doing today going to impact the players tomorrow. That's a very important question. It's a product driven development aspect and you know I believe based on the millions of players we already have pre-registered for the game that Ashes of Creation is going to be one of the most successful and largest launches in MMO history.[3] – Steven Sharif
Thank you for sending the Wiki links I have already read. I didn't tell that Steven didn't tell it. I told that I don't believe him. I think that it is his communication and the reality is different.
So if you believe they are lying to us why stay?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
Steven Sharif is Creative Director at Intrepid Studios.[1]
I’ve been an avid gamer for over 25 years, and time after time I find myself playing MMORPG’s. There is something about the Massively Multiplayer part of the game that has always intrigued me. Nothing compares with the experience of playing with thousands of people, from across the world. Everything in my design for Ashes of Creation, stems from that role of “community” in our game. I want to see the players dictate the direction of our story. I want to see the world we develop, adapt and react to the player’s actions. Most importantly, I want to see a game built by gamers FOR gamers.[1] – Steven Sharif
The best way you can create a product is by listening to the the feedback that your community gives you; and that's just not on a design front that's also on a product front as well- a business front. Also so you know there's a lot of things that I have the luxury of doing with Intrepid as a company because I am the sole share owner in the company I don't have to answer to a board and I have that luxury. Not a lot of companies have that luxury and that's why it's important for consumers to speak out and give their their feedback because the board does see that and the success of other companies that try new things, that take risks like Intrepid is taking or that Ashes of Creation is taking. It's important for those risk takers to get the love and the support so that it shows other businesses really the direction that the genre should go in.[2] – Steven Sharif
The bottom line is I am committed to this project's success and completion and that means that when it comes to funding for the additional years that perhaps were not planned for, that's coming out of mine and John's pocket and we're okay with that. Because what we see in front of us is not only a team of extremely talented individuals but also a community that is extremely passionate about the project and wanting to see it come to fruition. It's not just about what our personal desires are, John and myself being MMO players, but really it's about the fact that we've created a following, a community of players who want the same thing or similar to the same thing and that's something that's at the forefront of my mind anytime I walk into work is how is what we're doing today going to impact the players tomorrow. That's a very important question. It's a product driven development aspect and you know I believe based on the millions of players we already have pre-registered for the game that Ashes of Creation is going to be one of the most successful and largest launches in MMO history.[3] – Steven Sharif
Thank you for sending the Wiki links I have already read. I didn't tell that Steven didn't tell it. I told that I don't believe him. I think that it is his communication and the reality is different.
So if you believe they are lying to us why stay?
I think they've opted for a different communication strategy from the big development studios. If the two founders are legally the only two shareholders in the company, it's not a lie. But I think there are other investors in this project.
I don't have a sentimental opinion on the matter, nor do I feel betrayed. I'm just interpreting. To be honest, I'd prefer there to be other investors to balance the decision-making scales.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
Steven is the only shareholder.
So if you believe they are lying to us why stay?
I think they've opted for a different communication strategy from the big development studios. If the two founders are legally the only two shareholders in the company, it's not a lie. But I think there are other investors in this project.
I don't have a sentimental opinion on the matter, nor do I feel betrayed. I'm just interpreting. To be honest, I'd prefer there to be other investors to balance the decision-making scales.
What would lead you to think a person that made their money early in life and then decided to build a multi-million dollar passion project with that money would want to have their passion project diverted by someone that is their for the money? Investors and shareholders care only about one thing, ROI.
Personally I am glad their is only Steven and John at the top. I like the vision and the development we have seen so far.
All this leads back to why they should never share any kind of internal time lime with the public. Most people have never built anything more complex then a paper airplane.(Not an attack at you, just a general observation.) If more people had a greater understanding of what it takes to take an idea from inception to market I would be more inclined to agree with the OP, however most posts in this thread that agree with the OP prove why a timeline should never be shared outside of the company.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Not sure why the previous post, posted that way but meh.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
I don't subscribe to this fanatical idea of taking players for sheep and believing that a single great leader will be able to guide them towards the light (in reference to your phrase: "Most people have never built anything more complex then a paper airplane"). People are smarter than you think.
"most posts in this thread that agree with the OP prove why a timeline should never be shared outside of the company." I didn't understand the cause and effect reasoning that proves anything ...
Comments
I was saying that if the game had been postponed for 5 years, money was certainly one of the reasons. And I was also saying that I'm in favor of a Road Map, but if there isn't one and the game looks good at the end, that's fine too.
I'm benevolent toward the development team, but I also have my own opinions and interpretation. So we can talk about things we don't have all the facts on. Otherwise the forum would have died a long time ago.
The problem is that you're constantly lecturing us on the rules of conduct we should adopt, that we shouldn't talk like that, that we should talk about what we know, that we shouldn't talk if we don't know blah, blah, blah.
But in the end you don't seem mean, just a bit too talkative, so I don't blame you.
We're waiting for the Alpha,
Chill
However, the game hasn't been postponed.
The biggest cost to Intrepid right now is staff. If money were an issue, they would have to let a lot of staff go. This is something we would know about - they can't really hide large percentage layoffs.
They haven't. Ergo, money isn't currently an issue.
Edit to add; keep in mind realistic MMO development times.
Ashes started development in earnest in 2019. 2017 saw them conceptualize, finance and promote. 2018 saw them start to build the team. While there was some back end work done back then, there wouldn't have been much.
So, we are in Ashes 4th year of real development.
ESO took 7 years to develop.
That should give you a realistic timeline.
lmaoo im ded
A deadline pushed back for money reasons doesn't necessarily mean that the staff can't be paid immediately, and that Steven finds himself in his underpants rummaging through the garbage.
There are certainly shareholders who can accept or refuse a request for a budget extension. Sometimes they take a long time to make their decision, and all this delays deadlines.
If the staff can't be paid, it's worse than a money problem, it's bankruptcy.
If there are no shareholders (legal meaning), there are partners, investors. I cannot believe that the capital of Intrepid is only coming from Steven's pocket.
Well, it is.
Steven made a lot of money via MLM (allegedly), then more via real estate, and has put up the bulk of the funding for the game himself. That is why someone with absolutely no experience at all in game design, software, coding, art, anything at all, is the creative director of this game.
If the company had any investors other than Steven, he wouldn't be in that position.
Years ago when Ashes was planned to release by 2020, "funded to completion" was primarily based on Steven self-funding development.
Now, with ballooning timelines and costs, this game is only "funded to completion" because of A2 and cosmetic sales. A2 sales alone are at least $25 million already, but probably $50 million, plus additional cosmetics.
So saying Steven is self-funding the game, and the game is funded to completion, is a bit misleading. Yes, Steven started by self-funding. Yes, the game is funded to completion. But only because of A2/cosmetic sales. It is no longer self-funded by Steven.
Another hot take: cosmetic purchases are enabling the continued delay of the game. This game would almost certainly have released by now, or be dead, if there were no cosmetic/A2 sales.
I don't think what the OP Is requesting is unreasonable. The community is pretty invested in this game and IS openly communicating where they are at in development just seems....reasonable.
Don't bother comping back honestly. Your post and opinion are pretty simple minded if you look at the progress. There has been an immense amount of progress shown every month and its pretty clear you're here to throw jabs. Take a look at how long a lot of the newer and larger MMOs take to make, roughly 7-10 years. Ashes is perfectly within that time frame.
The guy risking millions of $ only from his own money alone... This is so naive to believe it.
Really? NOTHING? Nothing has been completed. I can only imagine you're young which is why such crazy hyperbole is being used.
It it what we have been told, we have no reason to assume it to be anything other than the truth.
You sure about that?
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Steven_Sharif
Steven Sharif is Creative Director at Intrepid Studios.[1]
I’ve been an avid gamer for over 25 years, and time after time I find myself playing MMORPG’s. There is something about the Massively Multiplayer part of the game that has always intrigued me. Nothing compares with the experience of playing with thousands of people, from across the world. Everything in my design for Ashes of Creation, stems from that role of “community” in our game. I want to see the players dictate the direction of our story. I want to see the world we develop, adapt and react to the player’s actions. Most importantly, I want to see a game built by gamers FOR gamers.[1] – Steven Sharif
The best way you can create a product is by listening to the the feedback that your community gives you; and that's just not on a design front that's also on a product front as well- a business front. Also so you know there's a lot of things that I have the luxury of doing with Intrepid as a company because I am the sole share owner in the company I don't have to answer to a board and I have that luxury. Not a lot of companies have that luxury and that's why it's important for consumers to speak out and give their their feedback because the board does see that and the success of other companies that try new things, that take risks like Intrepid is taking or that Ashes of Creation is taking. It's important for those risk takers to get the love and the support so that it shows other businesses really the direction that the genre should go in.[2] – Steven Sharif
The bottom line is I am committed to this project's success and completion and that means that when it comes to funding for the additional years that perhaps were not planned for, that's coming out of mine and John's pocket and we're okay with that. Because what we see in front of us is not only a team of extremely talented individuals but also a community that is extremely passionate about the project and wanting to see it come to fruition. It's not just about what our personal desires are, John and myself being MMO players, but really it's about the fact that we've created a following, a community of players who want the same thing or similar to the same thing and that's something that's at the forefront of my mind anytime I walk into work is how is what we're doing today going to impact the players tomorrow. That's a very important question. It's a product driven development aspect and you know I believe based on the millions of players we already have pre-registered for the game that Ashes of Creation is going to be one of the most successful and largest launches in MMO history.[3] – Steven Sharif
But they would have made a lot more money releasing A2 with the option to buy a pack still intact.
As far as the $30M, we don't know if all that money was delivered to IS or just available as needed. If 150k pre-order packs have been bought , that's over $30M right there.
As far as "risking" $30M? That's called investing in a company that makes a good product. Unless AoC flops hard in unexpected ways, it's going to sell a million+ copies. If it's very successful it will sell several million copies and the owner is going to make 10's of millions in pure profit.
They don't sell copies, just the monthly subscription fee and any cosmetics you choose.
Angel inventors are a real thing btw. If you have a lot of money you have anything open to you in what you want to do or support.
Give me one example of a completed feature, id love you to prove me wrong mate lol
Furthermore i would bet that closing A2 sales and then re-opening them two months into A2 is what will happen with the fomo aspect being " for a limited time"that persists the next 12 months boosting sales even more
7 million subs x 15$ a month, you do the math
Well, that just isn't true now is it?
Math aside, for any new readers, my point is the game does not have a box cost, only a monthly sub, so plan accordingly (and maybe brush-up on your algebra)
Thank you for sending the Wiki links I have already read. I didn't tell that Steven didn't tell it. I told that I don't believe him. I think that it is his communication and the reality is different.
So if you believe they are lying to us why stay?
I think they've opted for a different communication strategy from the big development studios. If the two founders are legally the only two shareholders in the company, it's not a lie. But I think there are other investors in this project.
I don't have a sentimental opinion on the matter, nor do I feel betrayed. I'm just interpreting. To be honest, I'd prefer there to be other investors to balance the decision-making scales.
no real games*
No dates, just a checklist basically..
I don't subscribe to this fanatical idea of taking players for sheep and believing that a single great leader will be able to guide them towards the light (in reference to your phrase: "Most people have never built anything more complex then a paper airplane"). People are smarter than you think.
"most posts in this thread that agree with the OP prove why a timeline should never be shared outside of the company." I didn't understand the cause and effect reasoning that proves anything ...