Could it be positive if someone only has 1 character?

xmix

The question would be, how could I add something like this so that if I have 1 character, he would get 40-100% xp to collect for development in his profession and for other things. And if you make a 2nd or 3rd character, you lose these buffs. So maybe it wouldn't be necessary to make 2nd characters even if someone doesn't want to. Just to keep up with the others.

xmix

In short, if you have 1 character, you get bonuses. If you have more characters, you lose these bonuses.

Ludullu_(NiKr)

This would just lead to people feeling bad and complaining that they need to buy more accounts if they want to participate in other artisan professions.

In other words it'd be seen as a p2w mechanic.

xmix

NiKr wrote: »

This would just lead to people feeling bad and complaining that they need to buy more accounts if they want to participate in other artisan professions.

In other words it'd be seen as a p2w mechanic.

This is called balance.With 2-3 characters you can get a much bigger advantage on 1 server than if you had only 1 and you will progress much faster because with the big character you support your alt characters with money.Those who want to buy multiple accounts have already been told that they will push it on 2 monitors.

Ludullu_(NiKr)

xmix wrote: »

This is called balance.With 2-3 characters you can get a much bigger advantage on 1 server than if you had only 1 and you will progress much faster because with the big character you support your alt characters with money.Those who want to buy multiple accounts have already been told that they will push it on 2 monitors.

You can only benefit from those alts if you spend a shitton of time on them. And those who can do so already have advantage over other people. If they now can have an even bigger advantage by having several accs - that's a p2w advantage on top of the time one.

Also, no one needs to run those accounts at the same time, so the "2 monitors" doesn't matter. Though people who'd be willing to throw more money at the game would most likely have several monitors either way. Hell, they'd probably have a few pcs/laptops too.

xmix

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

This is called balance.With 2-3 characters you can get a much bigger advantage on 1 server than if you had only 1 and you will progress much faster because with the big character you support your alt characters with money.Those who want to buy multiple accounts have already been told that they will push it on 2 monitors.

You can only benefit from those alts if you spend a shitton of time on them. And those who can do so already have advantage over other people. If they now can have an even bigger advantage by having several accs - that's a p2w advantage on top of the time one.

Also, no one needs to run those accounts at the same time, so the "2 monitors" doesn't matter. Though people who'd be willing to throw more money at the game would most likely have several monitors either way. Hell, they'd probably have a few pcs/laptops too.

The big p2w leaders will push it to private anyway. On Discord, they will talk it down to guild members for cheap or free equipment, and the money in the bank accounts will change places.I'm also considering the 15 euros to get started, so I don't belong here.

Ludullu_(NiKr)

xmix wrote: »

The big p2w leaders will push it to private anyway. On Discord, they will talk it down to guild members for cheap or free equipment, and the money in the bank accounts will change places.

I got no clue what this means, sorry.

xmix

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

The big p2w leaders will push it to private anyway. On Discord, they will talk it down to guild members for cheap or free equipment, and the money in the bank accounts will change places.

I got no clue what this means, sorry.

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

Ludullu_(NiKr)

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

xmix

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

this is already very twisted p2w.So someone would pay twice as much to get that minimal advantage.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

My parser doesn't break for this though, which is a testament to the translator being used or @xmix's skill with english cognitives as a baseline (this is a good thing, not an insult in any way, mentioning just in case).

As I said in your other thread, the reason that most games have an issue with this is because they design the game in a way that rewards time first and rewards efficiency and organization/specialization second. This is mostly because the casual player with low tolerance for the type of Roleplay that makes them part of a group, community or society, does not like the type of game where you have to respect those functions.

Ashes of Creation, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being that kind of game. It has almost all the foundations required to make a game where having more than one character will be at best a 20% benefit, and only to players with a lot of playtime available.

They could cut down on that 20% too, with a few more changes, if they wanted to (they probably don't want to).

Trying to solve this 'problem' by giving benefits for having 'single characters' is the second worst possible way. The worst possible way is things like the ArcheAge 'Labor points' system. (The BDO 'energy' system is not entirely equivalent to this and is mildly better, making it imo only the fourth worst possible way).

xmix

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

if only we knew how. max lvl time. max profession time. I could imagine better. And I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Azherae

xmix wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

if only we knew how. max lvl time. max profession time. I could imagine better. And I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But we know how this is done, many games have done it.

"Don't put 100 different harvesting nodes in one geographical area."

There is a set of people who will complain 'but I hate running around between harvestables, the game is not respecting my time if I have to do this'.

And those people are usually not the people who care about the economy, they care about the experience of 'seeing the numbers go up' and getting a tiny dopamine hit of 'I got a slightly better rate on this gathered item!' every 22 seconds.

Having extra accounts only truly matters if you have time-capped income instead of niche-capped income (aside from the travel time thing). Technically, having the better solution means you can give players more freedom and more alts per server and keep them happier than the other way anyway.

TheDarkSorcerer

I will spend 90% of my time playing 1 character, and the rest trying out a different class just for fun. I will never understand people who need 20 character slots though lol

xmix

Azherae wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

My parser doesn't break for this though, which is a testament to the translator being used or @xmix's skill with english cognitives as a baseline (this is a good thing, not an insult in any way, mentioning just in case).

As I said in your other thread, the reason that most games have an issue with this is because they design the game in a way that rewards time first and rewards efficiency and organization/specialization second. This is mostly because the casual player with low tolerance for the type of Roleplay that makes them part of a group, community or society, does not like the type of game where you have to respect those functions.

Ashes of Creation, so far, hasn't shown any signs of being that kind of game. It has almost all the foundations required to make a game where having more than one character will be at best a 20% benefit, and only to players with a lot of playtime available.

They could cut down on that 20% too, with a few more changes, if they wanted to (they probably don't want to).

Trying to solve this 'problem' by giving benefits for having 'single characters' is the second worst possible way. The worst possible way is things like the ArcheAge 'Labor points' system. (The BDO 'energy' system is not entirely equivalent to this and is mildly better, making it imo only the fourth worst possible way).

it will be a big advantage that all your sub-characters will be in 1 specialized small guild and enjoy their advantages, while your main character will have the advantages of the larger guild, plus the number of professions will be more.it takes away people's professions and caste itself.if I could develop 1 character in Meni's time, I wouldn't have a problem with alt characters.if only we knew how. max lvl time. max profession time. I could imagine better. And I wouldn't have a problem with it.

xmix

Azherae wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

xmix wrote: »

so that would be the point of the post. That if someone has enough time to draw 2-3 characters, it should be a little more difficult. But if he still draws 1+ characters, I don't want to be at such a disadvantage. I wouldn't have any problems if there were numbers to guide me, it's time to grow up with 1 character and learn 1 profession. About what these are planned for.

I'm assuming your text is auto-translated, cause it's almost impossible for me to parse.

But the point of "it should be harder" will just mean p2w to people. Because people who can afford several accounts will have it easier. That is, like, the literal definition of p2w. You pay more and your life is easier (you win).

if only we knew how. max lvl time. max profession time. I could imagine better. And I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But we know how this is done, many games have done it.

"Don't put 100 different harvesting nodes in one geographical area."

There is a set of people who will complain 'but I hate running around between harvestables, the game is not respecting my time if I have to do this'.

And those people are usually not the people who care about the economy, they care about the experience of 'seeing the numbers go up' and getting a tiny dopamine hit of 'I got a slightly better rate on this gathered item!' every 22 seconds.

Having extra accounts only truly matters if you have time-capped income instead of niche-capped income (aside from the travel time thing). Technically, having the better solution means you can give players more freedom and more alts per server and keep them happier than the other way anyway.

not what I meant.The development of 1 character from lvl 1 to lvl (30-100) will take about a while. How many hours is 100-300?

Tyranthraxus

Why should someone who only plays a single character have ANY advantage over people who split their time between other characters?

If anything, aren't players who play between characters already losing the maximum advancement of a single toon, by dividing their time between other toons?

Ludullu_(NiKr)

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

If anything, aren't players who play between characters already losing the maximum advancement of a single toon, by dividing their time between other toons?

When compared to others who have the exact same amount of time, but put it all into one character - yes.

Dygz

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I will spend 90% of my time playing 1 character, and the rest trying out a different class just for fun. I will never understand people who need 20 character slots though lol

I play RPGs primarily to play different roles: Races/Genders/Classes/Professions/Religions/Social Orgs.
RPGs are not a race to the end... and not all alts are intended to reach max level.

xmix

so we will get to the point in time that it will be unnecessary for 1 character to be a master of 1 profession.it will only be more difficult to become a master of 8 professions. Because every profession needs 1 new character.

Noaani

xmix wrote: »

so we will get to the point in time that it will be unnecessary for 1 character to be a master of 1 profession.it will only be more difficult to become a master of 8 professions. Because every profession needs 1 new character.

If one person has the time it takes to master all professions, good for them.

Lets say it takes 100 hours (the number doesn't matter) to master a profession. If I decide I want to master 8 professions, that should take me 800 hours. If you and your 8 friends decide to master 1 profession each, that should take you 800 hours combined.

This is both how it is (barring the actual number, we don't know that yet), and how it should be.

What's the issue?

Dygz

The OP is a bit weird because it seems like it's asking for built-in bonuses for playing one specific playstyle.
Should Casuals get bonuses because they are at a "disadvantage"?
Should soloers get bonuses because they are at a "disadvantage"?
Should Artisans get bonuses that give 40-100% xp because they are so focused on Professions they don't have time to invest in leveling Adventurer - which means they will fall behind in the race to keep up with Adventurer leveling?

Kilion

There is one advantage that I can think of and it is not nearly big enough to justify such a change in design and that is real reputation. Say XYZ has been running around the server cheating people out of their resources, always avoiding corruption but definitely ruinning other peoples fun in the pursuit of personal gains. At some point only seeing the name will make people cautious, people would refuse to interact with XYZ at all. At that point the player could in theory transfer all transferable goods to a new character and start the process all over again. This would be prevented by just having one character, but the limitation of not having an alt for your guild raids to fill slots according to need, trying out other archetypes or just simply look how other servers world are developing seems too much of a loss than one would gain for making such limitations.

Dygz

In RPGs - reputations should be built by characters; not players.
Pretty sure GMs can track truly problematic players if necessary.

Kilion

Dygz wrote: »

In RPGs - reputations should be built by characters; not players.
Pretty sure GMs can track truly problematic players if necessary.

Seeing how A2 is supposed to gather huge amounts of data on player behaviors this is almost certainly the case.