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Corruption should not reduce your characters attack power/ stats

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Im all for corruption adding death penalties or dropping more on death, but reducing the combat abilities of the corrupted player seems a bit boring? I like the idea of a powerful enemy needing a group to take down or atleast give them a fighting chance but a corrupted player just being an easy kill essentially bottlenecking them into going into hiding till they work off the corruption sounds a bit lame,

Whats everyones thoughts
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Comments

  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    i dont mind it. the reason this exists is to prevent assholes for bringing a character to a low level area to kill lowbies for no reason, maybe cuz he sucks at pvp his own level. so after a couple of kills (in theory) a low level should be able to kill the red.

    also, u dont lose stats when u fight mobs or bounty hunters
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Punishment (noun)
    pun·​ish·​ment ˈpə-nish-mənt

    1. the act of punishing
    2a. suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution
    2b. a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure
    3. severe, rough, or disastrous treatment
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    It is a needed function.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Since corruption is amongst other things meant to prevent players from kill farming lower level players, the stat penalty is necessary. A level 50 character can mow down a full group of lv 10 players, heck, even a full raid of lv 10s if their stats remain so high that they basically resist all incoming attacks due to giant stat differences.

    No, the penatly on combat ability has very good reasons to exist. I wouldn't be opposed to event or region based differences in the penalties. e.g. some high level region where corruption has sunken into the very earth itself (or the same happening due to an unresolved event that spreads corruption) - in the affected region corruption could have the same death penalties but will also increase all damage done, basically forcing slaughter. But again - this might be interesting as a regional and possibly temporary thing, but not at all for a global change in corruption.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • Chicago wrote: »
    Im all for corruption adding death penalties or dropping more on death, but reducing the combat abilities of the corrupted player seems a bit boring? I like the idea of a powerful enemy needing a group to take down or atleast give them a fighting chance but a corrupted player just being an easy kill essentially bottlenecking them into going into hiding till they work off the corruption sounds a bit lame,

    Whats everyones thoughts

    your post is a variation of
    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56124/a-4th-player-combat-flagging-status#latest
    Why create a separate thread?

    Corruption is needed to let players focus more onto caravans.
    For some reason Steven created the caravan game mechanic and wants to be sure they work and not just hope players will create them naturally.
    Without corruption every group of players are like caravans and gankers and bounty hunters attacking known gankers.
    With corruption, gankers will attack more often caravans and gank only when they believe somebody might worth the materials.
  • hleVhleV Member
    edited August 2023
    Not exactly sure how it's designed right now, but dampened stats for a red should only ever apply against greens that don't fight back, or at the very least it shouldn't apply against aggressive greens that initiated the fight.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    I like the idea of corruption and the various deterrents they want to apply
  • Protecting low lvls is ok. But becoming unable to kill ppl around the same lvl feels kinda weird. I mean if you go 10-15 pks in a row it makes sense. But i should be able to go on a rampage before im being rendered useless through debuffs.
  • Aka Please let me Grief low level characters.

    You need to remember that if you are killing 10+ Non-Combantants between any actual progression content then you clearly just have one goal in mind. Its important to remember that you Bottlenecked yourself multiple times. The game doesn't force you to Kill players, you do it despite knowing the penalty.

    The only other option where I see it being an issue is if people are fighting over a World boss. Curious if that will just be a, whoever tags or does the most damage scenario or not.

    Otherwise, what possible scenario is there that you need to kill that many players with out a break? This is not a PVP game just as much as its not a PVE game. its PVX, with both elements playing off each other as opposed to one being more focused over the other.
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Chicago wrote: »
    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    I disagree. I think it stops shitty behavior that bad players consider pvp, and encourages actual pvp.

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Chicago wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    If Ashes didn't have wars, sieges, caravans, naval content and probably other things where corruption isn't applied, I'd agree.

    With those things in place, corruption simply becomes a reason to not get weighed down by meaningless PvP - it encourages people that want to PvP to do so in those specific areas, but doesn't outright prevent attacking someone.
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    If Ashes didn't have wars, sieges, caravans, naval content and probably other things where corruption isn't applied, I'd agree.

    With those things in place, corruption simply becomes a reason to not get weighed down by meaningless PvP - it encourages people that want to PvP to do so in those specific areas, but doesn't outright prevent attacking someone.

    its your opinion that its meaningless pvp.
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    open pvp games without punishment or deterrents inevitably fail because players that don't want to engage in combat without consequences quit...

    leaving only griefers without 'victims' so they quit...

    game dies.

    So penalties for poor behavior are a must for any long term game survival and viability.

    actions have consequences...
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ravicus wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    If Ashes didn't have wars, sieges, caravans, naval content and probably other things where corruption isn't applied, I'd agree.

    With those things in place, corruption simply becomes a reason to not get weighed down by meaningless PvP - it encourages people that want to PvP to do so in those specific areas, but doesn't outright prevent attacking someone.

    its your opinion that its meaningless pvp.
    in order for those choices to be meaningful, there must be meaningful content behind the door you choose.
    That is from Steven.

    If you can point me to meaningful content behind just randomly killing someone out in the world, then sure, that could be meaningful.

    I can't see it though.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    open pvp games without punishment or deterrents inevitably fail because players that don't want to engage in combat without consequences quit...

    leaving only griefers without 'victims' so they quit...

    game dies.

    So penalties for poor behavior are a must for any long term game survival and viability.

    actions have consequences...

    Wow classic is a big example of how they fail? Probably the most played mmo active atm and pvp servers are always the most populat, given their are factions i will admit but definitley dont fail
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Ravicus wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    If Ashes didn't have wars, sieges, caravans, naval content and probably other things where corruption isn't applied, I'd agree.

    With those things in place, corruption simply becomes a reason to not get weighed down by meaningless PvP - it encourages people that want to PvP to do so in those specific areas, but doesn't outright prevent attacking someone.

    its your opinion that its meaningless pvp.
    in order for those choices to be meaningful, there must be meaningful content behind the door you choose.
    That is from Steven.

    If you can point me to meaningful content behind just randomly killing someone out in the world, then sure, that could be meaningful.

    I can't see it though.

    I mean you make your own content, isnt that what a sandbox is all about?

    most people that dont like this system are not against it because they want to grief someone 10 levels lower than them, they are against it because some of the best memories you can have in a game is thr content you make along the way, having 2v2 3v3 5v5s in the open world with your friends, seeing an old enemy and killing them in the open world,

    If you put in enough work on your character and practice dueling/pvping enough you should be hard to take down, your stats decreasing just rwmoves this entire aspect of the game
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    I feel reduction in power from corruption should only be applied when you kill players much lower level than you as a punishment for effectivly greifing lowbies but that part of corruption shouldnt apply when killing people of around your level.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I feel reduction in power from corruption should only be applied when you kill players much lower level than you as a punishment for effectivly greifing lowbies but that part of corruption shouldnt apply when killing people of around your level.

    100% agree
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Chicago wrote: »
    open pvp games without punishment or deterrents inevitably fail because players that don't want to engage in combat without consequences quit...

    leaving only griefers without 'victims' so they quit...

    game dies.

    So penalties for poor behavior are a must for any long term game survival and viability.

    actions have consequences...

    Wow classic is a big example of how they fail? Probably the most played mmo active atm and pvp servers are always the most populat, given their are factions i will admit but definitley dont fail

    yeah but you cant kill everybody in wow and you dont really lose anything from dying. also people are too busy doing instances to do any ow pvp xddd plus many pvp players play in pve servers because they just want to spend all their time doing arenas and nothing more, so they play on pve servers to level fast and uninterrupted.

    also didnt wow change to toggle pvp? o-o
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    Chicago wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    Only if your picking on greens that won't fight back. You are assuming all greens won't fight back but the thing is if I'm gathering for example a flower called frost daisies(that only grow in the Riverlands at night time in the winter) that are used for a high level armor increase pot I'm gonna fight back so I don't lose more of this rare/time sensitive resource. If I don't fight back I lose more. The only reason not to fight back in the situation is if I'm feeling extra petty at that moment
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    open pvp games without punishment or deterrents inevitably fail because players that don't want to engage in combat without consequences quit...

    leaving only griefers without 'victims' so they quit...

    game dies.

    So penalties for poor behavior are a must for any long term game survival and viability.

    actions have consequences...

    Wow classic is a big example of how they fail? Probably the most played mmo active atm and pvp servers are always the most populat, given their are factions i will admit but definitley dont fail

    yeah but you cant kill everybody in wow and you dont really lose anything from dying. also people are too busy doing instances to do any ow pvp xddd plus many pvp players play in pve servers because they just want to spend all their time doing arenas and nothing more, so they play on pve servers to level fast and uninterrupted.

    also didnt wow change to toggle pvp? o-o

    They did yeah but the first version of the game pre arena is still super popular today, and you can be ganked anywhere except starting zones
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I feel reduction in power from corruption should only be applied when you kill players much lower level than you as a punishment for effectivly greifing lowbies but that part of corruption shouldnt apply when killing people of around your level.

    … and that’s why the corruption system is calibrated the way it is right now. You can be at the same level and still be a griefer.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited August 2023
    Chicago wrote: »
    I mean you make your own content, isnt that what a sandbox is all about?
    No, developers should still be making content - a sandbox simply means you can pick and chose how you do that content rather than having to follow a track or rail system as per a themepark game.

    That said, Steven has never claimed Ashes is a sandbox.
    Ashes of Creation is referred to by the developers as a "themebox" or "sandpark"
    Each of these is a portmanteau of "sandbox" and "themepark", suggesting that this is just another bullshit marketing term that Intrepid came up with like "PvX" so that they can still appeal to players that like both sandbox and themepark MMO's.
  • MachadoDeCarvalhoMachadoDeCarvalho Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    That is from Steven.

    If you can point me to meaningful content behind just randomly killing someone out in the world, then sure, that could be meaningful.

    I can't see it though.
    Chicago wrote: »
    I mean you make your own content, isnt that what a sandbox is all about?

    most people that dont like this system are not against it because they want to grief someone 10 levels lower than them, they are against it because some of the best memories you can have in a game is thr content you make along the way, having 2v2 3v3 5v5s in the open world with your friends, seeing an old enemy and killing them in the open world,

    If you put in enough work on your character and practice dueling/pvping enough you should be hard to take down, your stats decreasing just rwmoves this entire aspect of the game

    In my personal view, open world PvP makes more sense in a game with factions.

    My best memories in MMORPGS are definitely open world PvP, back in 2009 when Aion released (my first MMORPG). It wasn't in the "designed PvP zone" (that was great too), but in my faction's or the other's territory. The thrill of your group being hunted by the entire enemy zone, hiding our respawn points in the mountains, or meeting an invading group in your faction's territory... that was awesome. In AoC's design, though, I really don't see purpose in killing people randomly in the open world. I'll probably just defend myself and attack reds on ocasion.

    I'm really looking forward to sieges, wars and caravans though! Open seas as well!
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two

    Noaani wrote: »
    That is from Steven.

    If you can point me to meaningful content behind just randomly killing someone out in the world, then sure, that could be meaningful.

    I can't see it though.
    Chicago wrote: »
    I mean you make your own content, isnt that what a sandbox is all about?

    most people that dont like this system are not against it because they want to grief someone 10 levels lower than them, they are against it because some of the best memories you can have in a game is thr content you make along the way, having 2v2 3v3 5v5s in the open world with your friends, seeing an old enemy and killing them in the open world,

    If you put in enough work on your character and practice dueling/pvping enough you should be hard to take down, your stats decreasing just rwmoves this entire aspect of the game

    In my personal view, open world PvP makes more sense in a game with factions.

    My best memories in MMORPGS are definitely open world PvP, back in 2009 when Aion released (my first MMORPG). It wasn't in the "designed PvP zone" (that was great too), but in my faction's or the other's territory. The thrill of your group being hunted by the entire enemy zone, hiding our respawn points in the mountains, or meeting an invading group in your faction's territory... that was awesome. In AoC's design, though, I really don't see purpose in killing people randomly in the open world. I'll probably just defend myself and attack reds on ocasion.

    I'm really looking forward to sieges, wars and caravans though! Open seas as well!

    You'll be fighting over the best and most efficient spots in the open world. Sometimes it'll be wiser to flag, other times it'll be wiser to have your guild dec.

    Personally I like OW PvP better when there are no factions, because then you are suspicious of everyone.

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ravicus wrote: »
    its your opinion that its meaningless pvp.
    It's not just Noaani's opinion. It's the natural opposite of how Ashes defines Meaningful Conflict: Sieges, Caravans, Node Wars and Guild Wars.

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Chicago wrote: »
    I mean you make your own content, isnt that what a sandbox is all about?
    Ashes is a Themebox; not a Sandbox.
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Ravicus wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Hard pass.

    Corruption is a punishment meant to deter unwanted behavior.

    It is not a mini-game for someone wanting a little more spice in their life.

    Its suppose to be a pvx game but corruption is just a hard stop for any real world pvp

    If Ashes didn't have wars, sieges, caravans, naval content and probably other things where corruption isn't applied, I'd agree.

    With those things in place, corruption simply becomes a reason to not get weighed down by meaningless PvP - it encourages people that want to PvP to do so in those specific areas, but doesn't outright prevent attacking someone.

    its your opinion that its meaningless pvp.
    in order for those choices to be meaningful, there must be meaningful content behind the door you choose.
    That is from Steven.

    If you can point me to meaningful content behind just randomly killing someone out in the world, then sure, that could be meaningful.

    I can't see it though.

    Meaningful content is subjective, and it is the opinion of the player. What you view as meaningful is not neccissarily what I view as meaningful. I could point you to lots of things that I like, but you would not because we are 2 different mindsets.
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
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